Sun Valley Jehovaha s Witness church ...

Sun Valley Jehovaha s Witness church usher pleads no contest to sex acts with underage boys

There are 189 comments on the LA Daily News story from Sep 12, 2013, titled Sun Valley Jehovaha s Witness church usher pleads no contest to sex acts with underage boys. In it, LA Daily News reports that:

VAN NUYS >> A man who was an usher at a Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses in Sun Valley pleaded no contest Thursday to sex-related counts involving three boys he met there.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at LA Daily News.

diogenes

Dallas, TX

#144 Sep 19, 2013
Umninimuzi wrote:
CASE No. 3: New York Times article on Sexual Abuse: Ousted Members Contend Jehovah's Witnesses' Abuse Policy Hides Offenses, by Laurie Goodstein, pubished August 11, 2002:
William Bowen always considered himself a devout Jehovah’s Witness. As a child, he felt it was his duty to go door to door passing out the church’s magazine, The Watchtower. Later, as an elder in his Kentucky congregation, he said he saw it as his duty to inform church officials that a fellow elder had abused a child.
But when Mr. Bowen contacted the church’s headquarters in Brooklyn, he says, he was rebuffed. Frustrated by the church’s inaction and by its confidentiality provisions, which he said prevented him from sharing the information with others, Mr. Bowen resigned as an elder in December 2000. A year later, he started a group to monitor child sexual abuse in the church.
Late last month, Mr. Bowen, 44, was excommunicated from the church. Behind a locked door, with plastic bags taped over the windows to ward off onlookers, he said, three church elders meeting at the church’s Kingdom Hall in Draffenville, Ky., found him guilty of “causing divisions.”
The punishment was “disfellowshiping”— complete shunning.
In the past three months, four other people have been expelled from the Jehovah’s Witnesses after accusing it of covering up the sexual abuse of children by its members. For Mr. Bowen and other critics of church policies on sexual abuse, the expulsions are part of a concerted effort to keep such abuses quiet.[...]
The church keeps a database of members and associates who have been accused or found guilty of child abuse. Mr. Bowen said church sources had told him the database contained the names of more than 23,000 people in the United States, Canada and Europe. The church says the number is “considerably lower,” but will not say what it is.[...]
If the accused denies the allegation, the victim’s testimony alone is not sufficient unless there is at least one other witness to the act. The church says its policy is based on a scriptural injunction in Deuteronomy 19:15 that says two or three witnesses are necessary to prove a man has sinned.[...]
Mr. Bowen is incapable of telling the truth. He has NEVER reported ANYONE to the police. That is what a responsible person should do if he knows of an abuser serving in a position of leadership. At THE VERY LEAST he could publicly name the perp.

Still waiting for a name of someone serving as an elder that is a confirmed child abuser. You said you knew of several. Currently you have named zero.
diogenes

Dallas, TX

#145 Sep 19, 2013
Umninimuzi wrote:
CASE No. 2: This story ran on page B1 of the Boston Globe on January 1, 2003, by Kathleen Burge, Globe Staff:
A 14-year-old Dorchester girl and her parents are suing the Jehovah’s Witnesses, arguing that the religious group covered up the girl’s sexual abuse by a Bible study leader and discouraged her parents from reporting the abuse to police or prosecutors.
The girl, allegedly molested in her house by the son of a church elder from the Columbus Park Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Dorchester, was so traumatized by the abuse that she has spent most of the past three years involuntarily committed to local psychiatric hospitals, the lawsuit alleges. Her mother says that while church leaders coddled her daughter’s abuser, they socially ostracized her for notifying law enforcement authorities and pressing criminal charges, according to court papers.
The lawsuit, filed last week in Suffolk Superior Court, highlights a sexual abuse scandal that has begun to envelop a religious group other than the Catholic Church: Jehovah’s Witnesses, who claim 1 million followers in the United States and 6 million worldwide.
Officials at the Columbus Park Congregation could not be reached yesterday. At the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York Inc., also a defendant in the Suffolk lawsuit, an employee in the media center yesterday referred inquiries to the church’s Web site, where church officials speak in general terms about their policy on child abuse.[...]
The Suffolk lawsuit outlines similar charges that church elders in Dorchester tried to keep quiet allegations of sexual abuse. The suit alleges that William Broadard, an elder in the Columbus Park Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, appointed his son as a ”pioneer” in the church, even though he knew his son was a threat to children.[...]
Meanwhile, according to the lawsuit, the local Jehovah’s Witnesses elders, including Broadard’s father, decided only to ”reprove” him. He kept his title and responsibilities within the church, the lawsuit charges.
In the lawsuit Sateydra Beal alleged that she was molested by her second cousin (Ronald Broadard) in 1998 and that she or her parents reported this to the elders in 2000. The courts dismissed this case saying that even if her allegations were true, the WT could not be held responsible.

And to this day there is still no police report or arrest. Note the statutes have not expired and she is free to report him to the police at any time. Yet again unverifiable allegations.

“God made in the image of man”

Since: May 07

Sausalito, CA

#146 Sep 19, 2013
diogenes wrote:
<quoted text>
Still waiting for a name of someone serving as an elder that is a confirmed child abuser. You said you knew of several. Currently you have named zero.
Your original challenge was: "an example of someone that was molested by someone KNOWN TO BE A MOLESTER to the elders (after the new policy was established in 1997).

You are deliberately obfuscating this issue, proving yourself 'cautious as a serpent yet innocent as a dove'(sarcasm). Now I am going to challenge you to define "CONFIRMED CHILD ABUSER," or "KNOWN TO BE A MOLESTER," because that is clearly the loophole that you are exploiting here.

See, I noticed that you are strangely silent on my last question -- if a judicial committee meets with an "alleged" abuser and does not have at least two witnesses or a confession, then he can hardly become a "confirmed" abuser or "known to the elders as an abuser," now can he? And in the interests of 'protecting the organization' they will therefore refrain from reporting mere 'empty allegations' to the authorities, won't they? So there COULD be hundreds if not thousands of UNconfirmed abusers still serving in positions of oversight!!

And it is interesting that you respond to such allegations in EXACTLY the same callous way that the Organization does -- instead of showing concern for the 'alleged' victims your only answer is, "PROVE IT!" And if there's no police conviction then it never happened and all shepherds of the flock can sleep easy tonight -- all those thousands of little children sucked it out of their thumbs just to harm the organization -- fcuk them -- just like the Catholic boys trumped up the charges against the Catholic priests!(Or ... wait!... it really happened in the Catholic Church, but no such cover up ever happened in the Organization of Jehovah's Witnesses, is that right?!)

And by the way, if the elders in your local congregation knew that you were here on a gay chat room getting into arguments with potentially disfellowshipped individuals, they would probably haul your ass before a judicial committee too ... or is the 'unconfirmed' fact of their disfellowshipped status sufficient excuse? Do not be misled, my friend, "questionable associations spoil useful ignorance." (1 Cor 15:33 ... paraphrased). No, I'm not disfellowshipped, but you never thought to check, did you?
Thewanerer

United States

#147 Sep 19, 2013
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/de...

BBC NEWS



Church elder jailed for sex abuse



A man who abused two girls over a three-year period has been jailed for seven-and-a-half years.

Aaron Hutchinson, 39, of St Chad's Road, Derby, pleaded guilty to two counts of rape and 10 indecent assaults between 1998 and 2001.

Derby Crown Court heard the Jehovah's Witness started abusing both girls when they were in their early teens.

Carl Fender, defending, said Hutchinson was a religious man and had been asked to be an elder in his church in Derby.

The court was told Hutchinson confessed to a church elder before contacting police to tell them about his crimes.

Mr Fender said Hutchinson now wanted to understand what had made him abuse the girls and receive treatment for his offending.

Judge David Price, passing sentence, said the attacks represented a "gross breach of trust" and only a jail term could be justified.
Thewanerer

United States

#148 Sep 19, 2013

Jehovah's Witnesses often try to cover up the fact when members molest members. This man a long standing JW molested two sisters in his congregation. Due to their courage he now is convicted for his crimes.


Manitowoc man sentenced in baby-sitting assault
Aug. 9, 2013 |
http://www.htrnews.com/article/20130809/MAN01...

Antonio Carpio
Antonio Carpio

MANITOWOC — A 42-year-old Manitowoc man was placed on probation and will spend one year in jail for sexually assault involving baby sitters on Dec. 26, 2004, according to Manitowoc County Circuit Court records.

Antonio V. Carpio, 826 S. 18th St., was found guilty of a felony charge of second-degree sexual assault of a child. One felony count of second-degree sexual assault of a child and one felony count of repeated sexual assault of a child were dismissed but read into the record.

Judge Jerome Fox on Aug. 2 withheld Carpio’s sentence and place him on 10 years of probation with the condition he spend one year in jail, with work-release privileges, starting Friday. He received one day of credit for time served.

According to the criminal complaint, Carpio sexually assaulted two girls who baby-sat for his children over a period of years. The women, both now in their 20s, told Manitowoc Police Department investigators that Carpio repeatedly assaulted them starting in 2003.

Conditions of probation also include providing a DNA sample and paying the surcharge; sex offender registry compliance; having no contact with the victims; having no contact with children younger than age 18 except his biological children; paying court costs and supervision fees; undergoing assessment, treatment and counseling; and obtaining full-time employment.
Thewanerer

United States

#149 Sep 19, 2013




The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses has staunchly stood against protecting children. See the recent evidence at this link, Jehovahs Witnesses Fight to Protect Pedophile Paradise . The point of the article was to show clear mandates of the GB that protects pedophiles while putting children in danger. The decisions made by this small group of men have hurt hundreds of thousands of children that are members of Jehovah’s Witnesses. It appears the only way to gain the attention of self serving haughty men is to make them pay in the form of litigation. Since 2001 Silentlambs has worked with over one hundred legal cases for abuse survivors to move the pebble up the hill and establish precedents that will help future victims to be successful. Last year after paying millions in settlements Watchtower went to an actual trial, they lost with a jury mandated judgment of $28 million going to one victim. Members and ex members are now finally starting to see that the Governing Body is not invincible when taken to court and that the only way to humble these wretched men is to sue them out of existence.



Some day Governing Body members will be hauled before the courts to testify regarding their crimes against children. They may face incarceration, not for righteous service to God but instead for hurting kids. Until that day happens we will continue to give victims a voice and at Silentlambs we hope to see many, many more press conferences like the one listed below to bring justice for those who suffer in silence.



If you need help contact Silentlambs 877-WTABUSE.



MEDIA COVERAGE



http://www.turnto23.com/news/state/la-jehovah...


Woman accuses member of West Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses in Lorain of sexual abuse

Video
Photo

Posted: 07/31/2013
Last Updated: 11 hours and 43 minutes ago

By: Deb Lee, newsnet5.com By: Deb Lee, newsnet5.com

LORAIN, Ohio - A former member of the West Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses in Lorain filed a lawsuit Wednesday against the congregation, alleging she was sexually abused by one of the church leaders.

"I want to expose how they treat children and how they do not protect them," Elizabeth McFarland, 26, said at a news conference in Cleveland.

McFarland claims Scott Silvasy, who served as a "Ministerial Servant," gained her trust then sexually abused her for five years, beginning when she was 9 years old. She said Silvasy committed suicide on her 16th birthday.

Her attorney, Irwin Zalkin of San Diego, said the elders of the church did nothing when they learned of the abuse.

"Jehovah's Witnesses believe in what is called the Biblical Two Witness Rule," Zalkin said. "According to the Biblical Two Witness Rule, as they interpret it, unless the perpetrator confesses or alternatively there are two eyewitnesses to the abuse, they can do nothing about it."

McFarland, who resides in West Virginia now, said she was disfellowshipped about eight months after she told the elders of the abuse. Her family in Lorain are still members of the congregation.

"In my own way I'm at peace with what happened," she said. "I wouldn't go so far to say I've forgiven him for what he's done. But in my own way I guess I have because my heart is not in turmoil anymore."

Willie Walker, one of the congregation's elders, had no comment when contacted by NewsChannel5.

Read more: http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/o...
Thewanerer

United States

#150 Sep 19, 2013

Bradford paedophile jailed for abuse of boys
http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/lo...

6:00am Saturday 27th July 2013 in Bradford

Massimo CapazzoMassimo Capazzo

A paedophile who subjected two young boys to “truly wicked” acts of depravity over a five-year period has been jailed for more than six years.

Massimo Capazzo’s offending against the boys was brought to the attention of the police after he confessed to some of his crimes last summer.

Bradford Crown Court heard yesterday Capazzo, 41, who was formerly known as Andrew Collins, had been a member of the Jehovah’s Witness faith.

Prosecutor Sophie Drake said his behaviour had been brought to the attention of the elders at a Bradford place of worship and he was “disfellowed”. She said:“Although he was shunned by the congregation he was still allowed to attend meetings. At that time matters were not brought to the attention of the police.”
Thewanerer

United States

#151 Sep 19, 2013
CLICK THIS LINK TO REVIEW COURT DOCUMENTS
[Anyone that reviews this material can easily see how Elders hide thr truth and every unetihical and immoral ploy was attempted to prevent these victims from getting justice.]
Team 10 obtains video of admitted child molester in Jehovah's Witnesses

Watch Video here
Some people say group covered up abuse for years

Posted: 07/22/2013
Last Updated: 1 hour ago

Mitch Blocker

Gonzalo Campos

http://www.10news.com/investigations/team-10-...

SAN DIEGO - Team 10 has obtained a video that some people say helps to prove Jehovah's Witnesses covered up child abuse for years.

In a video deposition taken in 2011 during a civil lawsuit, admitted serial pedophile Gonzalo Campos said he abused several children in his San Diego congregation from the early 1980's through the mid 90's.

"I did abuse him," said Campos in the video. "I touched his private parts."

((See the video deposition today on 10News At 5:00.))

His on-camera admissions and a confidential settlement worth millions, may have to be enough for his victims. The Jehovah's Witnesses never told police about Campos, who was a church elder. He's never been charged with a crime and he may never see the inside of a prison cell. He has fled the country and now is in Mexico. He also still is a member of Jehovah's
Thewanerer

United States

#152 Sep 19, 2013
An attorney questions Campos on the video, "Were you allowed to continue to give bible study to children after you attempted to touch (the victim) inappropriately?"

"Yes," Campos said.

Irwin Zalkin represents the seven victims who have come forward.

"He is a serial pedophile," Zalkin said. "It's about accountability. It's about taking responsibility. It's about protection of children. It's about changing the way they operate."

Zalkin claims child abuse continues inside the Jehovah's Witness community. He claims church leaders, known as elders, and Jehovah's Witness' headquarters, known as The Watchtower, treat child abuse like a sin instead of a crime.

"The elders are instructed that they are to report that up the chain to The Watchtower, before or not to authorities," Zalkin said. "It is The Watchtower who will decide what happens."

Team 10 found The Watchtower has sent each congregation and its elders several confidential memos about how to handle child abuse starting in 1989.

The original memo warns to "be careful not to divulge information about personal matters, quoting scripture which says there is 'a time to keep quiet."

Another memo from October 2012 outlines the current church policy.

It tells elders to "call the legal department" and "contact your...Overseer." It says, "loving elders should take steps to protect children, especially when... the one who has sexually abused a child... will be allowed to remain a member..."

Jim McCabe is the attorney for the Jehovah's Witnesses. He explained how the church now handles abuse allegations.

"Today whenever there's an allegation of child abuse and a local congregation hears about it they call headquarters and get instructions," McCabe said.

Team 10 learned Campos is still a member of the Jehovah's Witness church as he lives in Mexico, but McCabe says he is not allowed to hold a leadership position.
Thewanerer

United States

#153 Sep 19, 2013
Thirteen years after Silentlambs exposed the cover up of protecting child molesters within Jehovah’s Witnesses they continue to hurt children. The PR Department denies they protect pedophiles and have continued to do so, yet stories like this show them to be untruthful with their members and the public at large. When you donate to Jehovah’s Witnesses you give money to the “Worldwide Work Fund” you directly support the defense and cover up of pedophilia.
Update Leighton Sentenced!
Jehovah's Witness whose wife died after refusing blood transfusion is jailed for 13 years over child sex abuse covered up by religion's elders

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-24009...

Gordon Leighton, 53, confessed to the church he had abused a child in 2009
But abuse was covered up and he later denied the allegations
Judge tells Leighton he manipulated his victim with 'a combination of affection and attention and violence and threats'

By Rob Cooper

PUBLISHED: 09:10 EST, 23 August 2013 | UPDATED: 10:27 EST, 23 August 2013

Jailed: Gordon Leighton who admitted sexually abusing a child and then had his wrongdoing covered up by the church

Jailed: Gordon Leighton who admitted sexually abusing a child and then had his wrongdoing covered up by the church

A Jehovah’s Witness who sexually abused a child and then had his wrongdoing covered up by the church has been jailed for 13 years.

Gordon Leighton, 53, admitted sexually abusing a child when he was confronted with the allegations by church elders at Washington, Tyne and Wear.

The elders knew about the 53-year-old’s admissions for three years but refused to co-operate with the criminal investigation, and said what they had heard was confidential.
Thewanerer

United States

#154 Sep 19, 2013
uhh now that is tragic.their are more cases like this all over the world and here in the USA.
Thewanerer

United States

#155 Sep 19, 2013
Secret Disfellowshipping" by Jehovah's Witnesses? Menlo Park Ca.
Post 3394 of 3696
Joined 11/28/2005


The KH remodels and ass-emblies/conventions are the best money grabs they have.



KH remodels they have to borrow the money from the society for a bldg that the society already owns at 3% interest. I found out they dis-solved a congo I used to attend because they could not afford the remodel.

The ass-emblies are a great grab with the way they take a count of people attending and than use the number X's a dollar amount per person and wah-lah there is the assembly hall cost. I used to always wonder why a weekend or special day assembly would cost $8-10k for a paid off assembly hall?!? Now I know.The WT$ wanted them to take on a loan of about $40,000 for materials that they buy for pennys on the dollar. The proverbial $500.00 toilet seat that is not technically money laundering because it's already tax free. What it becomes is a COMPULSARY DONATION back to the society. THEN the WT$ becomes a leinholder on the title. Instead of the local congregation owning the hall, the WT$ takes title.

This land had appreciated to about 2,000.000.00 because it is smack dab in the middle of the Silicon Valley. There was NO WAY the WT$ was going to let some poor, MOSTLY Black, cong keep that jucy property. In this case the remodel was simply an excuse to get control of the TITLE so they could sell it underneath them and pocket the profit.(also tax free)
Thewanerer

United States

#156 Sep 19, 2013
The Plaintiffs, John Cobb, Jason Cobb and Arlen St Clair were disfellowshipped two weeks ago. I was told 2 brothers were disfellowshiped secretly in Absentia by elders a few towns north of Menlo Park upon direct orders of the Service Dept. Not even by a congregation they attended.

I was also told they were only offered an Appeal staffed by the Elders who were the Defendants on the embezzlement lawsuit E....e B....e

The charge: "Speaking injurously of glorious ones"- who...."The Circuit Overseer named in the Lawsuit." (P... K.... Relative of E.... B......-the elder with a shady past named in the lawsuit )

About six months ago the above Elders were removed and a secret letter was sent to all the bodies of elders in the area by the service desk that they had removed the 3 brothers and if they showed up in any local halls they were not to be called on for ANYTHING or informed that the letter existed.

Has anyone ever heard of "Secret Marking" or "Secret Disfellowshipping in absentia" before?

Not only are official WTBTS policies crazy....the unofficial policies are crazier. Seems the Governing Body has "pierced the Corporate Veil" in this case and left themselves entirely open to any and all litigation. If you a Black you are not right. two acres an a mule.
Diogenes

Nocona, TX

#157 Sep 19, 2013
Umninimuzi wrote:
<quoted text>
Your original challenge was: "an example of someone that was molested by someone KNOWN TO BE A MOLESTER to the elders (after the new policy was established in 1997).
You are deliberately obfuscating this issue, proving yourself 'cautious as a serpent yet innocent as a dove'(sarcasm). Now I am going to challenge you to define "CONFIRMED CHILD ABUSER," or "KNOWN TO BE A MOLESTER," because that is clearly the loophole that you are exploiting here.
Simple. Someone that is determined to be guilty. Whether that is by a court of law or by a judicial committee.
Umninimuzi wrote:
<quoted text>See, I noticed that you are strangely silent on my last question -- if a judicial committee meets with an "alleged" abuser and does not have at least two witnesses or a confession, then he can hardly become a "confirmed" abuser or "known to the elders as an abuser," now can he? And in the interests of 'protecting the organization' they will therefore refrain from reporting mere 'empty allegations' to the authorities, won't they? So there COULD be hundreds if not thousands of UNconfirmed abusers still serving in positions of oversight!!
What is the alternative? Guilty until proven innocent? And the two witness rule is the standard for disfellowshipping (ironically something most anti jw's vehemently oppose) and nothing more. Anyone is free to report at any time. In fact the WT says it is the duty for ALL in the congregation to report to the authorities if there is potential for a child to be harmed.
Umninimuzi wrote:
<quoted text>And it is interesting that you respond to such allegations in EXACTLY the same callous way that the Organization does -- instead of showing concern for the 'alleged' victims your only answer is, "PROVE IT!" And if there's no police conviction then it never happened and all shepherds of the flock can sleep easy tonight -- all those thousands of little children sucked it out of their thumbs just to harm the organization -- fcuk them -- just like the Catholic boys trumped up the charges against the Catholic priests!(Or ... wait!... it really happened in the Catholic Church, but no such cover up ever happened in the Organization of Jehovah's Witnesses, is that right?!)
Hate to disappoint you but there is not a court in the world that convicts someone on the basis of a single witness without corroborating evidence. If this was the case, all that the anti-jw crowd would have to do is accuse all elders world wide and effectively shut down the organization.

FYI here what the policy states about proven molesters:

"For the protection of our children, a man known to have been a child molester does not qualify for a responsible position in the congregation. Moreover, he cannot be a pioneer or serve in any other special, full-time service.... "

“God made in the image of man”

Since: May 07

Sausalito, CA

#158 Sep 19, 2013
Diogenes wrote:
<quoted text>
Simple. Someone that is determined to be guilty. Whether that is by a court of law or by a judicial committee.
[...]
What is the alternative? Guilty until proven innocent? And the two witness rule is the standard for disfellowshipping [...] and nothing more. Anyone is free to report at any time. In fact the WT says it is the duty for ALL in the congregation to report to the authorities if there is potential for a child to be harmed.
[...]
Hate to disappoint you but there is not a court in the world that convicts someone on the basis of a single witness without corroborating evidence.
If that is what The Watchtower says, why don't you quote the date and exact wording for all of us to see?

Furthermore, the problem is between what a secular court of law would consider evidence and what a judicial committee of Jehovah's Witnesses considers evidence. You state that "there is not a court in the world that convicts someone on the basis of a single witness." WRONG!!!! A case can be brought before a jury of twelve unbiased members of the public where there is only a single witness, but if his/her testimony is deemed credible after thorough cross-examination, the person can be convicted. NOT SO in your judicial committees of three elders based on 'Biblical principles.' It is so-an-so's word against elder so-and-so ... not two witnesses ... no admission of guilt ... therefore no conviction. So-and-so remains and elder in good standing because his fellow elders found no evidence of his guilt. Thereafter it is up to the injured party to take the case to the police.

THAT is PRECISELY our complaint against your so-called judicial committees!!! Yes, in case you are wondering, I have sat on such committees -- they are NOT impartial, they are NOT public hearings (very SECRETIVE in fact), and the victims have been thoroughly conditioned into thinking that they will violate some theocratic principle by going to the police. YEARS of brainwashing cannot be easily overturned because the Society now suddenly says anyone is free to go to the police with complaints against elders!

You people deserve all the bad publicity you are now receiving.
"By your fruits they will recognize you ..." etc. Your organization is rotten to the core, it has produced generations of child abusers and liars, and nothing you can say will now salvage even a shred of respect for you in the minds of the public.

BTW, what happened to the generation that saw 1914 and was not supposed to pass away before the end came? They are now gone!!! So you tell me who were the liars.
diogees

Dallas, TX

#159 Sep 20, 2013
Umninimuzi wrote:
<quoted text>
If that is what The Watchtower says, why don't you quote the date and exact wording for all of us to see?
July 29, 1988 BOE letter
"There is a duty to report when one has reasonable and probable grounds to believe that there is abuse or a substantial risk of abuse and parents have failed to protect the child. The report shall be mane forthwith to the local child welfare authorities. Sexual offenders are notorious repeaters. Therefore, careful investigation should be undertaken to ensure that no other children are at risk from the same person."

http://thirdwitness.com/childabuse/Onewitness...
Quote can also be found here since I know you will not accept anything thirdwitness says:
http://www.silentlambs.org/education/Weakness...

Jan 30, 1992 BOE letter
"As members or the community in which Caesar still acts as God's minister and hence still has a certain authority, all in the Christian congregation would want to consider their personal and moral responsibility to alert the appropriate authorities in cases where there has been committed or there exists a risk that there might be committed a serious criminal offence of this type (see ks91, page 138)"

http://thirdwitness.com/childabuse/Onewitness...
http://www.silentlambs.org/education/13092boe...
Umninimuzi wrote:
<quoted text>Furthermore, the problem is between what a secular court of law would consider evidence and what a judicial committee of Jehovah's Witnesses considers evidence. You state that "there is not a court in the world that convicts someone on the basis of a single witness." WRONG!!!! A case can be brought before a jury of twelve unbiased members of the public where there is only a single witness, but if his/her testimony is deemed credible after thorough cross-examination, the person can be convicted. NOT SO in your judicial committees of three elders based on 'Biblical principles.' It is so-an-so's word against elder so-and-so ... not two witnesses ... no admission of guilt ... therefore no conviction. So-and-so remains and elder in good standing because his fellow elders found no evidence of his guilt. Thereafter it is up to the injured party to take the case to the police.
The standard in criminal law is above and beyond and to the exclusion of all reasonable doubt. There is almost always two witness. So what qualifies as a witness?

The first witness starts with a victim. The second witness can be any of (but not limited to) the following.
1. DNA
2. Forensics
3. Circumstantial evidence
4. Eye Witness
5. Confession

I can't think of a single conviction that did not have any of the above.

Here's a good example. The Conti case. You believe her testimony to be credible right? And yet the police have not even charged Kendrick with the crime of brutally molesting Candace for two years running on every Sunday. Why? Because there is not enough evidence to gain a conviction.
Umninimuzi wrote:
<quoted text>
THAT is PRECISELY our complaint against your so-called judicial committees!!! Yes, in case you are wondering, I have sat on such committees -- they are NOT impartial, they are NOT public hearings (very SECRETIVE in fact), and the victims have been thoroughly conditioned into thinking that they will violate some theocratic principle by going to the police.
If you do not believe in the practice of disfellowshipping, then why are you complaining about two witnesses? No df'ng means regardless of how many witnesses, nothing is done in the congregation.

“God made in the image of man”

Since: May 07

Sausalito, CA

#160 Sep 20, 2013
diogees wrote:
<quoted text>
If you do not believe in the practice of disfellowshipping, then why are you complaining about two witnesses? No df'ng means regardless of how many witnesses, nothing is done in the congregation.
I am NOT discussing disfellowshipping, and did not say I was opposed to disfellowshipping. My whole argument has been about elders/Ministerial Servants or pioneers who are accused of abusing children, yet remain in their positions of oversight due to the secretive nature and composition of you judicial committees. Evidently, the Witnesses have one standard for disfellowshipping and another for removal from oversight. I don't think any secret judicial committee has ever considered DNA or circumstantial evidence as a "second witness" when deciding whether to remove a fellow elder, so you are reaching.

Which brings me to a question that you and I haven't even addressed here: why so many THOUSANDS of 'unsubstantiated' allegations of sexual abuse within the ranks of Jehovah's Witnesses? Shouldn't there be far fewer such cases in 'Jehovah's clean organization' than outside? I think there is not another organization in the world that can match your record at this point, probably not even the Catholic Church!

I wonder why that is?

Since: Sep 13

Location hidden

#161 Sep 20, 2013
Is the "usher" a contrivance to avoid saying ministerial servant or something else?

“God made in the image of man”

Since: May 07

Sausalito, CA

#162 Sep 20, 2013
diogees wrote:
<quoted text>
July 29, 1988 BOE letter
"There is a duty to report when one has reasonable and probable grounds to believe that there is abuse or a substantial risk of abuse and parents have failed to protect the child. The report shall be mane forthwith to the local child welfare authorities. Sexual offenders are notorious repeaters. Therefore, careful investigation should be undertaken to ensure that no other children are at risk from the same person."
http://thirdwitness.com/childabuse/Onewitness...
http://www.silentlambs.org/education/Weakness...
Jan 30, 1992 BOE letter
"As members or the community in which Caesar still acts as God's minister and hence still has a certain authority, all in the Christian congregation ...(see ks91, page 138)"
Incidentally, what is "BOE"? To whom was the first such letter of 7/29/1988 addressed? And the 1/30/92 one, to whom was that addressed? And what does the "ks91, page 138" say?-- to whom was that addressed?

You were very meticulous in addressing the details of the various cases I brought up, so now let's see that same attention to detail in delivering your sources. Why do you quote from 'worldly' websites? Can't you quote directly from the Society's publications? And BTW, why did you change your name and location? You do know the elders can still track your IP address, right?

Diogees, with my persistence and your honesty we may yet get to the bottom of this matter!
Snorkler

Johannesburg, South Africa

#163 Sep 21, 2013
Umninimuzi wrote:
<quoted text>
I am NOT discussing disfellowshipping, and did not say I was opposed to disfellowshipping. My whole argument has been about elders/Ministerial Servants or pioneers who are accused of abusing children, yet remain in their positions of oversight due to the secretive nature and composition of you judicial committees. Evidently, the Witnesses have one standard for disfellowshipping and another for removal from oversight. I don't think any secret judicial committee has ever considered DNA or circumstantial evidence as a "second witness" when deciding whether to remove a fellow elder, so you are reaching.
Which brings me to a question that you and I haven't even addressed here: why so many THOUSANDS of 'unsubstantiated' allegations of sexual abuse within the ranks of Jehovah's Witnesses? Shouldn't there be far fewer such cases in 'Jehovah's clean organization' than outside? I think there is not another organization in the world that can match your record at this point, probably not even the Catholic Church!
I wonder why that is?
Why do you think there are "THOUSANDS of unsubstantiated allegations of sexual abuse within the ranks of Jehivahs Witnesses ?"

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