France: 'Mosque for gays'

Nov 21, 2012 Full story: www.albawaba.com 507
An Algerian homosexual man is planning to open a “mosque for gays” in France by the end of the month, which sets to be a place of worship for Friday prayers at first, then will hold same-sex Muslim marriages ... Full Story

Since: Mar 12

Paris, France

#493 Feb 20, 2013
Marco the atheist wrote:
<quoted text>
So far, it looks like the Wahhabi's are winning that "overhaul". In Egypt, in Tunesia, even in Indonesia and Malaysia. I have little hope for Syria after Assad, considering what has happened in Egypt and Tunesia. It's quite the catch-22 situation in Syria: support a heartless dictator presently in power, or support his opponents, of which a significant proportion would be even worse.
The dictatorial regimes beheaded (litterally more often than not) all secular opposition for decades. The only ones that got away wer islamists hidden under the guise of charitable organisations which allowed them to get organised and win a clientele at the same time (think Muslim brotherhood).

Whahabbis they are totally exotic (and abhorrent) to most muslims who have a very different tradition.(The christian equivalent to wahabis could be the US far right who isn't exactly popular with all Christians either.) Other currents like sufis have not said their last word either.

What I was alluding to is a re-reading of text occuring in several countries on how to live in a modern world. Now in France some liberal imams are marrying muslim girls with christians, your typical wahabi would probably swallow his beard !
rio

UK

#494 Feb 20, 2013
Baron44 wrote:
<quoted text>
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Are you saying it is pointless that women do not have equal rights under the ideology of Islam.
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If one woman suffers from not having the same rights as her male counterpart, there should be stop put to it, even it was in Timbuktu or as we say in Australia behind the black stump.
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Muslims think differently.
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That is because you are brought up as savages.
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No better than the Feral Pigs in Australia.
First, I am not Muslim.
It's a common mistake among Islamophobes that anyone talking about Islam MUST be a Muslim.

Second, Islam isn't the same everywhere, so your generalisations are completely pointless.

Islam is widespread among different continents, different countries, different races and different ethnic groups. Most of what is attributed to Islam are in fact local customs and traditions.

When women will really enjoy equal rights in the West, then, maybe, we will be able to ask the same from Islam; not before. In some Muslim countries, women have a high status in society, and it's ridiculous to pretend that ALL Muslim women are downtroden.

But I don't see the point of explaining that to someone like you who displays so much prejudice and bias.

“Facts, not fiction”

Since: Apr 07

Earth

#495 Feb 20, 2013
Tigerrlily wrote:
<quoted text>
Whahabbis they are totally exotic (and abhorrent) to most muslims who have a very different tradition.(The christian equivalent to wahabis could be the US far right who isn't exactly popular with all Christians either.)
If they are so exotic, perhaps you can explain why more and more muslim countries that move in that direction?
Tigerrlily wrote:
<quoted text>
Other currents like sufis have not said their last word either.
What I was alluding to is a re-reading of text occuring in several countries on how to live in a modern world. Now in France some liberal imams are marrying muslim girls with christians, your typical wahabi would probably swallow his beard !
Yes, there are some imams that are a bit more open. But for every "liberal" imam, there are hundreds of very conservative imams. In France they almost *have to* adopt a more "liberal" stance, since France has gone after the supposedly "extremist" imams.

Of course "liberal" is in the eye of the beholder. That "liberal" is still very, very conservative from my point of view.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#498 Feb 20, 2013
rio wrote:
<quoted text>
First, I am not Muslim.
It's a common mistake among Islamophobes that anyone talking about Islam MUST be a Muslim.
Second, Islam isn't the same everywhere, so your generalisations are completely pointless.
Islam is widespread among different continents, different countries, different races and different ethnic groups. Most of what is attributed to Islam are in fact local customs and traditions.
When women will really enjoy equal rights in the West, then, maybe, we will be able to ask the same from Islam; not before. In some Muslim countries, women have a high status in society, and it's ridiculous to pretend that ALL Muslim women are downtroden.
But I don't see the point of explaining that to someone like you who displays so much prejudice and bias.
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In the first instant I could not give a rat's arse if you are Muslim or not.
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Typical Islamic argument is:
If you do it in the West, why are we not allowed to do it in our Islamic countries.
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Both are wrong.
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On a quantity basis the Muslim women are more downtrodden and less emancipated, than the Western women.
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When a man forces a woman to hide her face or have his daughters sexual organs mutilated than I say to you Islam is wrong.
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Number affected, 135 million women and girls as of 1997 ... the external female genitalia, or other injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons.... without anaesthesia, by a traditional circumciser using a knife, razor, or scissors...... Women with FGM typically report sexual dysfunction and dyspareunia
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How many women do you know personally that follows Islam and have a high status in society.
ocxz

Reunion

#500 Feb 20, 2013
Baron44 wrote:
<quoted text>
-
In the first instant I could not give a rat's arse if you are Muslim or not.
-
Typical Islamic argument is:
If you do it in the West, why are we not allowed to do it in our Islamic countries.
-
Both are wrong.
-
On a quantity basis the Muslim women are more downtrodden and less emancipated, than the Western women.
-
When a man forces a woman to hide her face or have his daughters sexual organs mutilated than I say to you Islam is wrong.
-
Number affected, 135 million women and girls as of 1997 ... the external female genitalia, or other injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons.... without anaesthesia, by a traditional circumciser using a knife, razor, or scissors...... Women with FGM typically report sexual dysfunction and dyspareunia
-
How many women do you know personally that follows Islam and have a high status in society.
What a load of hogwash.
No proof as usual.
rio

UK

#502 Feb 21, 2013
Baron44 wrote:
<quoted text>
-
In the first instant I could not give a rat's arse if you are Muslim or not.
-
Typical Islamic argument is:
If you do it in the West, why are we not allowed to do it in our Islamic countries.
-
Both are wrong.
-
On a quantity basis the Muslim women are more downtrodden and less emancipated, than the Western women.
-
When a man forces a woman to hide her face or have his daughters sexual organs mutilated than I say to you Islam is wrong.
-
Number affected, 135 million women and girls as of 1997 ... the external female genitalia, or other injury to the female genital organs for non-medical reasons.... without anaesthesia, by a traditional circumciser using a knife, razor, or scissors...... Women with FGM typically report sexual dysfunction and dyspareunia
-
How many women do you know personally that follows Islam and have a high status in society.
Burqa and female circumcision aren't typical of Islam, just of some parts of the Muslim world. They are regional customs, which have nothing to do with Islam.

Also, why is it always assumed that it's the man, father who forces women or daughters, when many women are fully active in this and wear the veil voluntarily?

Why don't you mention male circumcision which has be performed for centuries by Jews, Muslims and ... many Christians. For no medical reasons?

Women have been prime ministers in Pakistan, Bengla Desh, Turkey.

Since: Mar 12

Paris, France

#503 Feb 21, 2013
Marco the atheist wrote:
<quoted text>
If they are so exotic, perhaps you can explain why more and more muslim countries that move in that direction?.
Wahabi movements are very active and behave like a cult (they ARE a cult), recruiting mostly amoung the young, the ignorant and the disgruntled. Places where muslims are educated and know their religion tend to resist far better than others.

My parallel with evangelist cults was absolutely not fortuitous. Having seen both movements at too close a distance for comfort, I can tell you that their internal logic is exactly the same even if they pray in different directions.

“Facts, not fiction”

Since: Apr 07

Earth

#505 Feb 21, 2013
Tigerrlily wrote:
<quoted text>
Wahabi movements are very active and behave like a cult (they ARE a cult), recruiting mostly amoung the young, the ignorant and the disgruntled. Places where muslims are educated and know their religion tend to resist far better than others.
My parallel with evangelist cults was absolutely not fortuitous. Having seen both movements at too close a distance for comfort, I can tell you that their internal logic is exactly the same even if they pray in different directions.
There is an important difference: violence.
rio

Beckenham, UK

#506 Feb 21, 2013
Tigerrlily wrote:
<quoted text>
Wahabi movements are very active and behave like a cult (they ARE a cult), recruiting mostly amoung the young, the ignorant and the disgruntled. Places where muslims are educated and know their religion tend to resist far better than others.
My parallel with evangelist cults was absolutely not fortuitous. Having seen both movements at too close a distance for comfort, I can tell you that their internal logic is exactly the same even if they pray in different directions.
Wahabis are the ruling monarchs in Saidi Arabia; they are basically Muslim fundamentalists, the most pure and strict branch of Islam. They are the holders of Islam holly sites and use their influence in the Muslim world to keep the religion in its original form.

What you are taling about are the salafists outside Saudi Arabia, but inspired by the Wahabis, who try to steer Islam towards the strictest interpretation of the Qu'ran. It's not so bad if they content themselves with religion, but many have taken a political role, precisely because they don't see any other way to reach the Muslims worldwide. Radicalising Muslim countries to become theocracies, and eliminating what they perceive as Western liberalism is their goal.

Since: Mar 12

Paris, France

#508 Feb 22, 2013
rio wrote:
<quoted text>
Wahabis are the ruling monarchs in Saidi Arabia; they are basically Muslim fundamentalists, the most pure and strict branch of Islam. They are the holders of Islam holly sites and use their influence in the Muslim world to keep the religion in its original form.
What you are taling about are the salafists outside Saudi Arabia, but inspired by the Wahabis, who try to steer Islam towards the strictest interpretation of the Qu'ran. It's not so bad if they content themselves with religion, but many have taken a political role, precisely because they don't see any other way to reach the Muslims worldwide. Radicalising Muslim countries to become theocracies, and eliminating what they perceive as Western liberalism is their goal.
agreed on most things ... knowing there is quite a lot of Saudi money backing these salafist movements ..

Purest.. not sure, backwards, litteral reading of texts is not automatically purity in my book.

Since: Mar 12

Paris, France

#509 Feb 22, 2013
Marco the atheist wrote:
<quoted text>
There is an important difference: violence.
do you think the US far right are all tree huggers, or the Lord's army in Africa ?... all extremists movements, whether they be religious or political totally disregard free will or the right of others to differ.

“Facts, not fiction”

Since: Apr 07

Earth

#510 Feb 22, 2013
Tigerrlily wrote:
<quoted text>
do you think the US far right are all tree huggers,
Compared to the Wahhabi's, yes.
Tigerrlily wrote:
<quoted text>
or the Lord's army in Africa ?
Funny you'd mention the LRA. It clearly is an organization that has a very local aim. This is quite different from the Wahhabi's, who are acting global.
Tigerrlily wrote:
<quoted text>
... all extremists movements, whether they be religious or political totally disregard free will or the right of others to differ.
But usually to have little support. The LRA needed to 'recruit' children. In the muslim world, muslims freely move all around the world to kill others that think differently.

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#513 May 6, 2013
Our modern European reality just can't stop surprising... At first we allowed those wild muslim immigrants freely to come and to stay among us. Now these being so much warmly welcomed 'guests' already teach us how should we live in our own countries and what laws should we here follow.... But that evidently was still not enough and... and they have legalized gay marriage. Now what? Hasn't yet the last lesbian with huge dildo in her hands happily walked throughout the central streets of Paris... gay muslims already demand to open special mosques for them. BUMP! Got simply no comments on it. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't the holy quran ban homosexuality in islam?? Isn't homosexuality a "haraam" among muslims?? lol... democracy and freedom definitely strikes here hard on those wild children of sands. The greatest pity I feel now for my children who are to grow among muslims and pederasts... who are to make their living here among this scum...
How very queer

UK

#514 May 7, 2013
poovery may well be banned in the koran, but most arab men take no notice. Turks as well are notorious bumthrusters, like Moroccans and indeed all moslem men. In parts of the islamic world it is dangerous for a young MAN to walk alone, not for the women - and especially blond blue eyed young men.
alexandre

Athens, Greece

#515 May 9, 2013
homosexuality is an integral part of the muslim culture. muslim children are initiated to sex usually by a family member, like their uncle. why do you think hammams are so popular in these countries? since sex with women is forbidden (the punishment is death by stoning), younger men learn about sex with other men. Mohamed was gay, he loved little boys. and islam is by nature a gay religion.

i am not surprised many gays these days turn to islam for answers.

~A~
ocxz

Reunion

#516 May 9, 2013
alexandre wrote:
homosexuality is an integral part of the muslim culture. muslim children are initiated to sex usually by a family member, like their uncle. why do you think hammams are so popular in these countries? since sex with women is forbidden (the punishment is death by stoning), younger men learn about sex with other men. Mohamed was gay, he loved little boys. and islam is by nature a gay religion.
i am not surprised many gays these days turn to islam for answers.
~A~
You must be very very frustrated indeed.
Unfortunately much uninformed, worse, most ignorant.
it must be heart wrenching to have such an irrational hate and yet be unable to express it in public, be it for the cozy confort of the browser.
alexandre

Athens, Greece

#517 May 9, 2013
ocxz wrote:
<quoted text>
You must be very very frustrated indeed.
Unfortunately much uninformed, worse, most ignorant.
it must be heart wrenching to have such an irrational hate and yet be unable to express it in public, be it for the cozy confort of the browser.
there is nothing hateful about what I wrote. nothing insulting or racist. I just stated facts. go read a book and go get some education you idoit!!!!
rio

Beckenham, UK

#519 May 9, 2013
alexandre wrote:
<quoted text>
there is nothing hateful about what I wrote. nothing insulting or racist. I just stated facts. go read a book and go get some education you idoit!!!!
No, you don't state facts.
You just expose your prejudice about Islam by inventing stories.
Homosexuality is against Islam, and is punishable.
There are more cases of homosexuality in christan countries (where it is tolerated) thasn in Muslim countries.

Unlike in christian countries were homosexuality is promoted, it is against the law in Muslim countries.
You don't see civil unions for gays, nor gay marriages among Muslims. But you see that in the West, and in paerticular in France now.

Just tell us which Muslim cleric preaches tolerance for gays.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#520 May 9, 2013
rio wrote:
No, you don't state facts.
You just expose your prejudice about Islam by inventing stories.
Homosexuality is against Islam, and is punishable.
There are more cases of homosexuality in christan countries (where it is tolerated) thasn in Muslim countries.
Unlike in christian countries were homosexuality is promoted, it is against the law in Muslim countries.
You don't see civil unions for gays, nor gay marriages among Muslims. But you see that in the West, and in paerticular in France now.
Just tell us which Muslim cleric preaches tolerance for gays.
I really don't mind breaking this to you, but the percentage of homosexuals is the same in Muslim countries as it is in Christian ones, they just learn to hide it better out of fear for their lives. Much of Islam may prohibit homosexuality (those who disagree may be few and far between, but it is not a universal opinion among all Muslims), but for some strange reason Allah keeps making homosexuals.
ocxz

Reunion

#522 May 9, 2013
alexandre wrote:
<quoted text>
there is nothing hateful about what I wrote. nothing insulting or racist. I just stated facts. go read a book and go get some education you idoit!!!!
Did you get any education, Alexandre ?
Tell me which school or university taught you these facts.
Give me a link please.
Also if what you state are facts please provide official links.
Why don't you go public with your "facts" ? Record it on video, i would be very happy to see people rooting for you and your gentle comments.

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