Man-made religion is the enemy of peace

Since: Sep 09

Ganges, Canada

#1176 Nov 15, 2009
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
As for atheists....for me its a bit more scientific in its approach. I could be swayed myself, as I live in a country that was more or less founded by deists, and I have a particular prejudice then, by culture, to be deistic in nature....And after a long search for a personal god I have come to realize that there is none.
Robert
As you and I have corresponded off and on since I first came on the forum, I have witnessed how your beliefs have changed from following your Catholic faith to now entertaining the idea that you are more of an Atheist in belief, than religious.

I give you credit for your ability to use your mental faculties to question.

You don't seem to allow fear of the unknown to govern what you believe.

Since: Sep 09

Ganges, Canada

#1177 Nov 15, 2009
One is never so "holy" as to not fall into temptation. And if it happens to these so-called preachers of truth, and they are falling ... then their so-called "salvation" did not protect them from falling into the temptation. That must mean that the "devil," of which they preach, is also active WITHIN their own churches. It doesn't bode well for religion, when they can't even keep their own devil at bay.(sarcasm)
..........

Todd Bentley, 2008

In August 2008, Todd Bentley, best known as the controversial key figure of the Lakeland revival in Florida "has agreed to step down from his position on the Board of Directors" of Fresh Fire Ministries, "and to refrain from all public ministry for a season to receive counsel in his personal life." This was after the ministry revealed he had an "unhealthy relationship on an emotional level with a female member of his staff".[16]The announcement came one week after Bentley's ministry announced he and his wife were separating.[17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christia...

Since: Sep 09

Ganges, Canada

#1178 Nov 15, 2009
Sometimes their preaching in concern with "sin," seems to be in concern with what they most need to learn.
..........

Joe Barron, 2008

Joe Barron, one of the 40 ministers at Prestonwood Baptist Church, one of the largest churches in the United States with 26,000 members, was arrested on May 15, 2008 for solicitation of a minor after driving from the Dallas area to Bryan, Texas, in order to allegedly engage in sexual relations with what he thought to be a 13 year-old girl he had met online. The "girl" turned out to be an undercover law enforcement official.[13][14][15]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christia...

Since: Sep 09

Ganges, Canada

#1179 Nov 15, 2009
Those who hold that bible as answers to clearing up sin, ALWAYS preach that sin is "out there."

That ought to be a red flag that if it seems to good to be true, walk ... or even, RUN away! You will save yourselves a lot of money, and you will spare yourselves from believing in the lies. Rest assured, the sermons are going to be nothing but baffle gas, from those who are full of it!

Since: Sep 09

Ganges, Canada

#1180 Nov 15, 2009
More "gift of the gab, that sucked in the gullible."
..........

Tony Alamo, 2008

On September 20, 2008, FBI agents raided Tony Alamo Christian Ministries headquarters as part of a child pornography investigation.[18][19]. This investigation involved allegations of physical abuse, sexual abuse and allegations of polygamy and underage marriage. According to Terry Purvis, mayor of Fouke, Arkansas, his office has received complaints from former ministry members about allegations of child abuse, sexual abuse and polygamy since the ministry established itself in the area, and in turn, Purvis turned over information about the allegations to the FBI.[20] Investigators at the scene plan to conduct a search of ministry headquarters and the home of Alamo and interview children present on the compound. In late July 2009 Alamo was convicted on 10 counts of transporting minors across state lines for sexual purposes, sexual assault and other crimes. He awaits sentencing, and could face over 100 years in prison.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christia...

Since: Sep 09

Ganges, Canada

#1181 Nov 15, 2009
One can only imagine how this went over with those of the pious, "saved" mindsets.
..........

From the hard-cover-book, titled,“Stories Behind Everyday Things,” published by “The Reader’s Digest,” comes the following……….

Tombstone

In Buchanan, Michigan, a stubborn freethinker scandalized the town by unveiling prematurely a costly monument inscribed on the west face:“FREE SPEECH: The more Religion, the more Lying,” and on the north face:“FREE RELIGION: The more priests, the more Poverty. Nature is the true GOD. Science the true Religion.” The pious townfolk defaced the monument: a few spat tobacco juice on it. When Joseph Coveney finally went to rest beneath those sentiments the controversy was forgotten, and the local paper noted only that he had been “a follower of Paine.”

Since: Sep 09

Ganges, Canada

#1183 Nov 15, 2009
Prudery and religion often go hand in hand.
..........

From the hard-cover-book, titled,“Stories Behind Everyday Things,” published by “The Reader’s Digest,” comes the following……….
Tombstone

One of the world’s most extraordinary cemeteries, Pere-Lachaise in Paris, is a crowded necropolis of the illustriously entombed.

Also buried there is the playwright Oscar Wilde, who scandalized England in his day by his homosexuality. Even his tomb, topped off by a winged sphinx sculpture by Jacob Epstein, was not, in this Parisian Elysium, safe from English prudery. Shocked to discover that Wilde’s sphinx was visibly male, two English ladies took a rock and broke off the offending parts. Rescued by a guard and taken to the office of the curator, they served for some years as paperweights.

Since: Sep 09

Ganges, Canada

#1184 Nov 15, 2009
Scams that take advantage of the gullible are not anything new.
..........

From the hard-cover-book, titled,“Stories Behind Everyday Things,” published by “The Reader’s Digest,” comes the following……….

Souvenir

Even before returning crusaders brought back enough pieces of the “true cross” to erect a small village, travelers enjoyed collecting souvenirs of the places they visited.

Since: Sep 09

Ganges, Canada

#1185 Nov 15, 2009
Are these con artists in the name of a god guilty of a crime? After all, the people are looking for words that tell them they are special and "saved." So, maybe they received their money's worth. They obviously are getting what they want, or they wouldn't give such generous gifts of money to these smooth-talkers.

Maybe fair is fair. If they want to buy fairy tales, which in turn makes the preachers wealthy, maybe the government should stay out of it.

It doesn't seem fair though, that in the name of religion, they should get away without paying taxes, while others don't get off so easy.
..........

Senate probe

In 2007, Senator Chuck Grassley (R-IA) opened a probe into the finances of six televangelists who preach a "prosperity gospel".[21] The probe investigates reports of lavish lifestyles by televangelists including: fleets of Rolls Royces, huge palatial mansions, private jets and other excesses. These luxuries are purportedly paid for by television viewers who donate due to the ministry's requests for tithes. The six under investigation are Kenneth Copeland and Gloria Copeland of Kenneth Copeland Ministries of Newark, Texas; Creflo Dollar and Taffi Dollar of World Changers Church International and Creflo Dollar Ministries of College Park, Ga; Benny Hinn of World Healing Center Church Inc. and Benny Hinn Ministries of Grapevine, Texas; Eddie L. Long of New Birth Missionary Baptist Church and Bishop Eddie Long Ministries of Lithonia, Ga; Joyce Meyer and David Meyer of Joyce Meyer Ministries of Fenton, Mo; Randy White and Paula White of the multiracial Without Walls International Church and Paula White Ministries of Tampa [22].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christia...

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#1186 Nov 15, 2009
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree that beliefs do not truth make. Maybe some beliefs hit truth on the mark, but which one of us is wise enough to know if, or whether that ever occurs?
I believe that to pretend to know the truth of these issues is just plain silly, and displays no sense of humility whatsoever.
I am comfortable with my belief, but I realize that others would not be comfortable with my belief. So, my belief, although comforting to me, is just another shot from the darkness of my ignorance that goes who knows where?
:)
I agree with you.
:)

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#1187 Nov 15, 2009
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe that "befuddled" is a healthy state of mind, because when one IS befuddled, one has enough befuddlement to not try to impose the befuddlement on others as absolute truth.
Some Atheists are every bit as radical as those who are in a "religious state of belief, because they want to do away with religion, which is plain silly. And some who claim religious truths want to do away with Atheism, which also is plain silly.
There are beliefs for all, but I believe those who have done the most damage on earth to others, have not been Atheists, or Agnostics. They have been radically religious to the point of insanity in the name of truth.
And I also agree that there is no such thing as a "personal" god.
In my wildest nightmares, I could not imagine anything worse than a personal god that allows a devil to run earth ... and that gives free will, only to command that we follow "his" dictates, or burn in this devil's hell.
Ridiculous claptrap!
Befuddlement....lol. Its pretty close to ignorance. And the "befuddled must be willing to change in order to grow. Of course some refuse to grow and end up in stubborn ignorance, of which you speak....

Robert

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#1188 Nov 15, 2009
June VanDerMark wrote:
<quoted text>
As you and I have corresponded off and on since I first came on the forum, I have witnessed how your beliefs have changed from following your Catholic faith to now entertaining the idea that you are more of an Atheist in belief, than religious.
I give you credit for your ability to use your mental faculties to question.
You don't seem to allow fear of the unknown to govern what you believe.
I kind of wonder about "change", is it in the genes or experience....I am old enough to learn genes go a long way in deciding things....
Actually, a lot of religous baggage I need no longer carry has made me less anxious in proving my points. And to be an atheist, I am reverting to my original childhood. That babies are atheists....It is something I read recently....But it sort of makes sense, that getting older and getting ready to return to the soil from which we all come makes us like children in the sandbox of the universe....

Robert

Since: Sep 09

Ganges, Canada

#1189 Nov 15, 2009
It seems they catch some of them for tax-evasion.
..........
Jury Convicts An Evangelist Of Tax Evasion
The evangelist Tony Alamo has been convicted of tax evasion and jailed after prosecutors said that he was a risk to flee as well as a polygamist who had preyed on married women and girls in his congregation.
A Federal District Court jury convicted Mr. Alamo this week of understating his personal income in 1985 and failing to file tax returns from 1986 to 1988. The charges carry a maximum prison term of six years and fines totaling $550,000.
Judge Jon McCalla ordered Mr. Alamo jailed pending sentencing on Aug. 26, citing concern over "the very great control Mr. Alamo has over a number of people."
Mr. Alamo, 59, formed a ministry for drug abusers and the homeless more than 20 years ago that eventually grew into a multimillion-dollar enterprise with a string of businesses, primarily in Arkansas, Tennessee and California. The prosecutor, Christopher Belcher, said the businesses had earned more than $9 million over four years.
Mr. Alamo argued that he owed no taxes because he had no salary. He said the businesses financed his Christian ministry and the church simply supported him as its spiritual leader. He has declined to say how many members his church has.
After the verdict, Mr. Belcher requested Mr. Alamo's immediate imprisonment. He said that Mr. Alamo might flee and that he posed a threat to his followers.
Federal officials said Mr. Alamo had married eight of his followers since early 1993, including girls who were 15 years old and women who already had husbands.
"He threw the husbands out of the church and took the wives," Mr. Belcher said. One of the teen-agers was told that unless she married Mr. Alamo her family would be expelled from the church, Mr. Belcher said.
Since the trial was on tax charges, the jury did not hear testimony on the prosecutor's allegations that Mr. Alamo had violated sex and polygamy laws. Mr. Belcher said such offenses would fall under laws against statutory rape in Tennessee and Arkansas.
Mr. Alamo's lawyer, Jeffrey Dickstein, argued that accusations of polygamy were no reason to jail Mr. Alamo before sentencing. He said he planned to appeal the conviction.
Mr. Alamo, who has filed for bankruptcy in Arkansas, also faces a state child abuse charge in California, where he is accused of directing the beating of a church member's 11-year-old son.
Mr. Alamo's church and its businesses once operated out of a compound near Alma, Ark. The Holy Alamo Christian Church is now based in Canyon Country, Calif.

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/06/12/us/jury-con...

Since: Sep 09

Ganges, Canada

#1190 Nov 15, 2009
As the old saying goes ... "Slick as snot on a door-knob."
..........

Mr. Alamo argued that he owed no taxes because he had no salary. He said the businesses financed his Christian ministry and the church simply supported him as its spiritual leader.

Since: Sep 09

Ganges, Canada

#1191 Nov 15, 2009
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
I kind of wonder about "change", is it in the genes or experience....I am old enough to learn genes go a long way in deciding things....
Actually, a lot of religous baggage I need no longer carry has made me less anxious in proving my points. And to be an atheist, I am reverting to my original childhood. That babies are atheists....It is something I read recently....But it sort of makes sense, that getting older and getting ready to return to the soil from which we all come makes us like children in the sandbox of the universe....
Robert
Well, that's the physical part of the issue anyway. Whether or not there is a spiritual aspect remains to be seen ... or not.

I, for one, don't believe that babies ARE Atheists. I believe the soul that enters the baby, has extensive experience, and that the physical body is just a temporary vehicle.

If Atheists are correct, after death of the body, there will be nothing TO prove. But if I am right, and life goes on in the spiritual aspect, you will be wrong ... and in the hereafter, I will never ... I say ... NEVER ... let you forget it either.

:)

:)

Since: Sep 09

Ganges, Canada

#1192 Nov 15, 2009
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
I kind of wonder about "change", is it in the genes or experience....I
I don't know. It is as though there is a season for all things, and our seasons (concerning beliefs) don't coincide.

Since: Sep 09

Ganges, Canada

#1193 Nov 15, 2009
Robert F wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, a lot of religous baggage I need no longer carry has made me less anxious in proving my points.
Good for you.

For me, there are no points TO prove. I know I never did have the answers, and I believe the questions fit the same for every body ... or at least, if people are honest ... the questions should fit the same for every body.

Since: Sep 09

Ganges, Canada

#1194 Nov 15, 2009
Depending on the cultural interpretations, symbols can, and have been interpreted to have many different meanings..........
..........

The Woman’s Dictionary of Symbols and Sacred objects … by Barbara G. Walker.

Chariot

According to the Eddas, the chariot of the sun was drawn by the horse Arwaker (Early Waker) and driven by the Goddess Sol, or Sul, or Sulis: the same whom the Celts honored as Lady of the Sun. Her vehicle was comparable to—and probably derived from—the Sun Chariot that esoteric Buddhism called the Great Vehicle, or the Chariot of Fire. Deities, fairies, and supernatural heroes frequently traveled by fire-chariot, especially en route to celestial regions, like the prophet Elijah (2 Kings 2:11). Jewish tradition gave God himself a chariot like that of the pagan sun deity. It was called Merkaba, the holy chariot. 1 Medea, the Great Goddess of the Parthian Medes, recalled the original female charioteer in her winged chariot drawn by fiery serpents (lightning?); for before she became a Greek antiheroine she was the all-wise, immortal, celestial ruler of sun, moon, and stars. 2

One of the Indian temples of Vishnu was planned to resemble a gigantic chariot, symbolic of the world with all its freight of creatures, carrying the god above all under his title of Jagganath,“Lord of the World.” At the annual Puri festival, God and Goddess were transported on a real chariot of immense size, which became the “Juggernaut” derived from a corruption of Jagganath.

The sun chariot on the isle of Rhodes was annually destroyed as a sacrifice to the deity in heaven, being thrown into the sea as the sun god himself was engulfed in the abyss at each sunset. 3 The Greek legend of Phaethon, son of the sun god, was drawn from this source. Phaethon aspired to his Heavenly Father’s position, but was unable to control the solar horses, and nearly burned up the world. His heavenly Father killed him and threw him into the sea as a sacrifice to himself. 4 Associating the soul with the solar spirit on his way to destruction, Babylonian scriptures called the road to the land of death either “the road of no return” or “the way of the chariot.” 5

Taking the idea of chariot-riding to death or to heaven as an allegory, Plato’s Phaedrus envisions the human body as the soul’s chariot. The soul is a winged charioteer, whose wings fall away in coming to earth to be born in a terrestrial body. 6 The reverse journey was that of apotheosis, which was taken quite literally as riding back to heaven in the fiery chariot of the sun, according to the biblical story of Elijah. Rising to heaven, Elijah let his mantle fall on his apprentice prophet, Elisha: the origin of the popular metaphor of inheriting the mantle. 7

Carl Jung found archetypal symbolism in images of the chariot as the body carrying the mind. The charioteer is the inner self; the horses represent life-force, or id; the reins are intelligence or will. 8 Similar associations have been suggested for the Tarot card of the Chariot, the seventh trump. This is interpreted as the card of earthly existence and material success, a godlike charioteer under a heavenly blue star-canopy, his chariot wheels likened to the days and nights of the turning world. In Tarot designs, however, he has no reins and therefore cannot control the forces of the terrestrial environment.

1. Patai, 134.
2. Graves C.M. 2, 253; Herodotus, 390.
3. Cirlot, 145.
4. Walker, W.E.M.S., 793.
5. Epic of Gilgamesh, 27.
6. Lindsay, 125.
7. Hall, 112.
8. Cirlot, 41.

“Brains: Use 'em or lose 'em”

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#1195 Nov 15, 2009
June VanDerMark wrote:
Depending on the cultural interpretations, symbols can, and have been interpreted to have many different meanings..........
..........
The Woman’s Dictionary of Symbols and Sacred objects … by Barbara G. Walker.
Chariot
According to the Eddas, the chariot of the sun was drawn by the horse Arwaker (Early Waker) and driven by the Goddess Sol, or Sul, or Sulis: the same whom the Celts honored as Lady of the Sun. Her vehicle was comparable to—and probably derived from—the Sun Chariot that esoteric Buddhism called the Great Vehicle, or the Chariot of Fire. Deities, fairies, and supernatural heroes frequently traveled by fire-chariot, especially en route to celestial regions, like the prophet Elijah (2 Kings 2:11). Jewish tradition gave God himself a chariot like that of the pagan sun deity. It was called Merkaba, the holy chariot. 1 Medea, the Great Goddess of the Parthian Medes, recalled the original female charioteer in her winged chariot drawn by fiery serpents (lightning?); for before she became a Greek antiheroine she was the all-wise, immortal, celestial ruler of sun, moon, and stars. 2
One of the Indian temples of Vishnu was planned to resemble a gigantic chariot, symbolic of the world with all its freight of creatures, carrying the god above all under his title of Jagganath,“Lord of the World.” At the annual Puri festival, God and Goddess were transported on a real chariot of immense size, which became the “Juggernaut” derived from a corruption of Jagganath.
The sun chariot on the isle of Rhodes was annually destroyed as a sacrifice to the deity in heaven, being thrown into the sea as the sun god himself was engulfed in the abyss at each sunset. 3 The Greek legend of Phaethon, son of the sun god, was drawn from this source. Phaethon aspired to his Heavenly Father’s position, but was unable to control the solar horses, and nearly burned up the world. His heavenly Father killed him and threw him into the sea as a sacrifice to himself. 4 Associating the soul with the solar spirit on his way to destruction, Babylonian scriptures called the road to the land of death either “the road of no return” or “the way of the chariot.” 5
Taking the idea of chariot-riding to death or to heaven as an allegory, Plato’s Phaedrus envisions the human body as the soul’s chariot. The soul is a winged charioteer, whose wings fall away in coming to earth to be born in a terrestrial body. 6 The reverse journey was that of apotheosis, which was taken quite literally as riding back to heaven in the fiery chariot of the sun, according to the biblical story of Elijah. Rising to heaven, Elijah let his mantle fall on his apprentice prophet, Elisha: the origin of the popular metaphor of inheriting the mantle. 7
Carl Jung found archetypal symbolism in images of the chariot as the body carrying the mind. The charioteer is the inner self; the horses represent life-force, or id; the reins are intelligence or will. 8 Similar associations have been suggested for the Tarot card of the Chariot, the seventh trump. This is interpreted as the card of earthly existence and material success, a godlike charioteer under a heavenly blue star-canopy, his chariot wheels likened to the days and nights of the turning world. In Tarot designs, however, he has no reins and therefore cannot control the forces of the terrestrial environment.
1. Patai, 134.
2. Graves C.M. 2, 253; Herodotus, 390.
3. Cirlot, 145.
4. Walker, W.E.M.S., 793.
5. Epic of Gilgamesh, 27.
6. Lindsay, 125.
7. Hall, 112.
8. Cirlot, 41.
So what have you got on wings, found on god/desses, angels, an ancient depictions of royalty?

Since: Sep 09

Ganges, Canada

#1196 Nov 15, 2009
BEE33 wrote:
<quoted text>So what have you got on wings, found on god/desses, angels, an ancient depictions of royalty?
I will start by copying the article titled "Goddess" and carry on from there. It will take me a while to copy it, because I'm not fast at typing, so please bear with me. And to add to the slow typing, is the fact that it's a long ... long article.

And then I have to double-check everything, to do my best to get it written as the author wrote it ... and with some of these words, that's not an easy task for me.......... I'm no Einstein ... Einstein!

:)

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