Atheism & Death

May 27, 2010 Full story: About.com 20,017

There was discussion here recently about atheist and Christian attitudes towards death .

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“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#8976 Oct 3, 2010
funforall wrote:
<quoted text>
That exact scripture kept me searching till I did understand. Even though I very much wanted to know God, I had given up on that ever happening because I had searched through many different religions without results. But because of that one scripture, I kept searching and working hard to understand, and it worked.
More mental masturbation, I see.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#8977 Oct 3, 2010
funforall wrote:
Why are there still short animals with short necks?
Why did your parents continue to remain alive after giving birth to.. you.

Obviously, YOU think YOU are the Penultimate Creation.

Why did not your parents just hie off and die, then?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#8978 Oct 3, 2010
Appaloosa wrote:
<quoted text>
Miracles, no magic
What's the difference?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#8979 Oct 3, 2010
Sola Script 1 wrote:
<quoted text>
What is the nature of these natural processes? How does the enviorment know what to select among the mutations?
It doesn't. No consciousness is required. Think of it like this. Suppose there are two variations in some gene: one makes the organism give off heat faster than the other. Which one is beneficial? It depends on the environment. If it is cold out, the organism with the heat retaining gene is more likely to survive to reproduce than the one with the gene releasing heat. How does the environment know? If it is hot out, the gene releasing heat is more beneficial and is more likely to allow the organism its in to survive. How does the environment know? In both cases, no intelligent action is going on, but a non-random effect is had.

Natural selection is simply the statement that some genes make the organisms they are in more likely to survive than other genes. Those genes promoting survival are more likely to get passed to the next generation. Nothing has to 'know' what is better. But the direction of change is not random either: cold environments tend to produce species that don't give off a lot of heat.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#8980 Oct 3, 2010
Appaloosa wrote:
<quoted text>
Grab a chair and sit next next to me Red Teddy, I am going to give you free Bible lessons.
Get a notebook and pen.
The 1st book in the Bible is the book of Genesis.
The writer was Moses,
LIE. Few if any genuine scholars think that Moses "wrote" Genesis.

WHY DO YOU LIE?
Appaloosa wrote:
place written Wildernes, Writting Completed (B.C.E), 1513, Time Covered "In the beginning" to 1657.
LIE! Few if any genuine scholars think the entire bible is older than 300 BCE.

They have proved pretty much beyond a doubt, that it was written during the captivity period, or shortly after.

And was written so as to *appear* old-- that was the agenda of the newly re-emergent Jewish priest-class, who had to justify their special treatment, after all.

(don't priests ALWAYS do this? Justify their ill treatment of their flock?)
Appaloosa wrote:
Moses also wrote Exodus, Leviticus, Number, and Deutoronomy.
Let me know when you're done writting you're notes down before I go on okay...;o)
LIE! Moses may not even have existed! It's far more likely he was a fabrication of the first emerging priest-class, in roughly 300 BCE, to help cement their newly-minted bible.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#8981 Oct 3, 2010
Sola Script 1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Is it not true that the laws of nature are independent of each other and have one primary function?
It is not true: correct.

All the "laws" of nature are interdependent.

So, no.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#8982 Oct 3, 2010
Sola Script 1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Your uncle was an ape. Mine wasn't.
Did your uncle have cells with membranes made of lipids rather than walls made from glucosides? If yes, your uncle was an animal.

Did your uncle have a backbone? If yes, your uncle was a vertebrate.

Did your uncle have any sort of body hair and the ability to regulate internal temperature? If yes, your uncle was a mammal.

Did your uncle's mother have a uterus and was your uncle enclosed in a placenta before birth? Then your uncle was a placental mammal.

Did your uncle have five digits on each hand and foot and a lack of claws, scales, horns and hooves? If yes, your uncle was a primate.

Did your uncle have convoluted cerebral hemispheres, a large brain for his size of mammal, color vision, a lack of tail, and a lack of cheek pouches? If yes, your uncle was an ape.

You see, all humans are apes. We are a very particular type of ape, but we fit into the overall classification of living things as being apes.
mike duquette

Greensboro, NC

#8983 Oct 3, 2010
Drew Smith wrote:
<quoted text>
So you're saying that your god doesn't know everything?
Yes. This sitting in the chair and having to explain everything to god is for his amusement as is everything here on earth. We are gods amusement park. Sometimes he has false Christians like the Catholics exterminate Jews so everyone will see the witnesses are the real Christians. It's just all in good fun. No harm, no foul.
mike duquette

Greensboro, NC

#8984 Oct 3, 2010
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
LIE. Few if any genuine scholars think that Moses "wrote" Genesis.
WHY DO YOU LIE?
<quoted text>
LIE! Few if any genuine scholars think the entire bible is older than 300 BCE.
They have proved pretty much beyond a doubt, that it was written during the captivity period, or shortly after.
And was written so as to *appear* old-- that was the agenda of the newly re-emergent Jewish priest-class, who had to justify their special treatment, after all.
(don't priests ALWAYS do this? Justify their ill treatment of their flock?)
<quoted text>
LIE! Moses may not even have existed! It's far more likely he was a fabrication of the first emerging priest-class, in roughly 300 BCE, to help cement their newly-minted bible.
I don't think they are lieing. They are just brainwashed. They know not what they do. Thier parents drilled this stuff into their brains. The loaded gun was pointed at their heads. We know this gun well. It's called hell. They had a choice. Believe or go to hell. Free will.
We somehow escaped this indocrination. Thank god.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#8985 Oct 3, 2010
Pokay wrote:
You have called it "clouds of potential". Well that is not a very good explanation that leads us to a deep understanding of what matter really is and where and how it originates and on and on and on, in short it does NOT demystify existence and or life much at all. Fascinating discovery but no demysticication factor yet. Why can't you accept that much?
I have no idea what you are looking for in a 'demystification' factor. This is how matter is. It is how ALL matter is. That in and of itself seems to be an incredibly significant find. Is it just 'signal'? I have no idea. How do you determine what is signal and what is not? How do you know we haven't already found the turtle? Just because it doesn't look to you that it could have made the trail we see?
All your "clouds of potential" tell us is where and when we can expect to find such particles. Doesn't do much for demystifying existence. No matter what happens, the thought of there being a "place" for existence to "be", or even the thought of there not being any "place" to "be" (nothingness) doesn't make sense. If it does you are fooling yourself like Drew Smith.
Well, one big advantage of string theory in this regard is that to work, it requires a certain geometry from spacetime. That seems to be an explanation for why we have 'place' for existence. Now, is string theory correct? I do not know...the evidence isn't in yet. But it seems, to me, to answer that part of your question. If not, what are you wanting?

It seems to me that you want a reason for there to be 'something' rather than 'nothing' where 'nothing' means no laws, no space, no time, no particles, no assumptions, no anything. Sorry, without axioms, no conclusions can be drawn.

But we know things *do* exist and we can understand the patterns of how things that do exist behave and use those patterns to understand what we see around us. As we find and understand those patterns, we find that many of our assumptions of how the universe 'must' work are simply wrong: causality is not required for science, for example.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#8986 Oct 3, 2010
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
This might amuse you (an old post of mine):
Imagine that before you were born, you were given a choice to be born into any one of several possible universes, each created and ruled by a different god with different qualities and different rules from the others.
[1] In one universe Ė this universe, the one we actually know - the god ruling, Jesus, there will remain hidden from view. He will grant those who correctly guess that he exists an opportunity to blissfully worship him for eternity. Less than 10% will do so. The other 90+% will be forced to remain conscious in an eternal torture chamber. If you choose this universe, you wonít remember any of this. There will be many false religions for you to choose from.
[2] In another, the rules are the same as in the first universe, except that the god there makes himself plainly visible, and everybody manages not just to choose religion, but to choose the right religion, and in so doing, please him and earn eternal bliss praising him.
[3] In another, the rules are the same as in the first universe, except that after death, the deity allows the failures, still over 90+%, to return to the oblivion from which they came before birth. There is no torture after death.
[4] In another, itís just like [3] except that, based on a coin flip, half get bliss and half get oblivion.
[5] In another, they also flip a coin. Except that heads itís eternal bliss, tails itís eternal torture. You have no say.
[6] In another universe, one ruled by Satan, everybody goes to eternal torture. This is the worst universe imaginable. If you are born into this one, prepare to meet the monster that runs it.
You are asked to list the universes in order from your first choice to your last.
This isnít hard.[2] is first, then [4], then [3]. These offer decreasing chances of the prize with no risk of torture. Then [5], then [1], then [6], where the risk of torture increases from 50% to 100%.
The actual universe according to Christian doctrine is next to the worst of all of the possible worlds listed, making the Christian god almost as bad a god as there could be, just a notch above his under-lieutenant, Satan. The fact is, the depiction of Jesus is that of a god less than ten percent better than the worst imaginable monster god. Jesusí universe is almost as malevolent a universe as one run by Satan alone. What a horrible world we have been born into according to Christian dogma!
Thereís your all-powerful and perfectly loving god ranked among conceivable gods. For over ninety percent, it would have been better never to have been born at all, and the rest get to spend eternity in perpetual worship. Of all of the aborted fetuses, at least ninety percent were luckier than those of us who were born.
That's what you call, "a God of great love," and what I call "a god of evil."
Cross-quoted here: " http://atheiststoday.com/forum/viewthread.php... ;

:)

“Don't get me started”

Since: Jul 09

Minneapolis

#8987 Oct 3, 2010
funforall wrote:
<quoted text>
I heard that evolutionists believe that people evolved love because there was a physical need for it to keep babies alive and that giraffes grew longer necks so they could eat off of tall trees.
I'd have to question your sincerity because you seem to be playing dumb for the sake of your beliefs.

You could easily figure out that if a fruit falls on fertile ground, as chance might have it, then it has a chance to produce a new tree. If the ground is not suitable for the seed, it would be unlikely to take root. But the fruit does not seek out firtile ground. It falls where chance places it.

Evolution works the same way. Traits occur by chance. If they are beneficial to the species they will help the species to thrive. If they are not beneficial, they will tend to be a a negative factor in the game of survival.
mike duquette

Greensboro, NC

#8988 Oct 3, 2010
Sola Script 1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Way to go. I agree with you about 100% abstinence. Godgots and atheist-mindless-bots can agree with this and practice it.
I was an alcoholic Christian, now I'm a sober atheist. Do the math.
Joe Fortuna

United States

#8989 Oct 3, 2010
Appaloosa wrote:
<quoted text>
Scripture por favor.
So nothing that I haven't heard, just more excuses.
How about a verse number or something.
Being how you can't provide a reason for it, I'd like to what kind of excuse your book will come up with
mike duquette

Greensboro, NC

#8990 Oct 3, 2010
funforall wrote:
<quoted text>
Before committing suicide, any atheist should at least try reading and studying the Bible. After all, what does an atheist have to lose? They expect nothing and believe in nothing and have been promised nothing. They should try it. Reading and studying the Bible and learning why we are here and what God expects of us and the hope for the future can even restore sanity.
How can you read what we say and still think we have not read the bible? Most people in America have read at least some of the bible. Fact is that the bible is contradictory. This is why 38,000 sects exist. I suppose you are in the 1/38,000 of those that got lucky and was born into the only true Christian church. Funny, all the other 37,999 think the same. I suppose you are one of the 'choosen' ones. Isn't that special.
Joe Fortuna

United States

#8991 Oct 3, 2010
Sola Script 1 wrote:
<quoted text>
If Christianity is "the last in line of a long line of god believers.Pieced together from earlier gods,earlier beliefs" your going to have to back that up with some facts. Can you do that?
Please don't use the Christ myths stuff since that has been refuted already.
Just in the mind of the deceived.
Denial, one of organized religions tools.
mike duquette

Greensboro, NC

#8992 Oct 3, 2010
funforall wrote:
<quoted text>
They seem to be a very droll, somber group who take themselves way too seriously. I wonder if there are any happy, joyful atheists, ones who don't have to ridicule the beliefs of others to make themselves feel superior.
I am happy. Every atheist on this thread has said the same. Your brainwashing is showing.
Humor is sometimes used to show how absurd a belief is.
Do true Christians use humor? Does this humor poke fun at no one?
If so, please tell us one of these jokes.
Joe Fortuna

United States

#8993 Oct 3, 2010
Appaloosa wrote:
<quoted text>
Adam gave us a death sentence and Jesus sacrificed his himself to give us life.
This is where the *ransom* comes in. The most significant ransom price is that of that of the shed blood of Jesus Christ. By paying over the value of that ransom in heaven. Jesus opened the way for Adam's offspring to be delivered from the sin and death that we all inherited because of the sin of our forfather Adam.
This is a pathetic excuse, and not even a answer to my question.
Just a senseless organized religious rant.
Joe Fortuna

United States

#8994 Oct 3, 2010
Appaloosa wrote:
<quoted text>
Set God to the side for a minute. Do you think we are living in the last days?
No. There is no last days. Everything will continue, with or without man.
mike duquette

Greensboro, NC

#8995 Oct 3, 2010
Sola Script 1 wrote:
<quoted text>
We are not born atheist. We all have the ability to recognize God in creation and we know He exist in our hearts. Michael Shermer the great skeptic concurs with this:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405270...
Did you read this article? I doubt it. Shermer says many have a likelyhood of believing nature is caused by some intelligence. It's the human way our brain evolved. We thing things move for some reason. If we cannot yet see the reason, we immagine a reason. This immagined reason is not always correct. The god reason is one of those incorrect assumptions we made.
Shermer points out that no one knows any traits of specific gods or sects of religion by birth. This is only learned. Or indoctrinated.

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