Re-definition of Turkey over Armenian...

Re-definition of Turkey over Armenian Genocide

There are 20 comments on the Russia Taday story from Apr 28, 2014, titled Re-definition of Turkey over Armenian Genocide. In it, Russia Taday reports that:

Dr. Can Erimtan is an independent scholar residing in A stanbul, with a wide interest in the politics, history and culture of the Balkans and the Greater Middle East.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Russia Taday.

Dander

Deloraine, Australia

#2 Apr 28, 2014
Yirmi üc Nisan...
Yurdu koruyan
Yarini kuran
Sen ol cocugum!..
Eskiyi unut,(neden korkuyoruz Acaba ?)
Yeni yolu tut.
Türklüge umut
Sen ol cocugum!..
Bizi Kurtaran
Öndere inan.
Sözünü tutan
Sen ol cocugum!..
Küçücüksün bugün,
Yarin büyürsün.
Her iste üstün
Sen ol cocugum!..
Çalisip ogren
Herseyi bilen,(HOPPALAAAAA!)
Yurduna güven
Sen ol cocugum!..

Milli Inkar ve beyin yikama bakani
Hasan Ali Yucel
allah buyuk degildir

Zurich, Switzerland

#3 Apr 28, 2014
iste bunlara neden kafasi sikik dedigimizin hakli ornegi.
THE CANNONBALLER

Northampton, UK

#4 Apr 28, 2014
Dander wrote:
Yirmi üc Nisan...
Yurdu koruyan
Yarini kuran
Sen ol cocugum!..
Eskiyi unut,(neden korkuyoruz Acaba ?)
Yeni yolu tut.
Türklüge umut
Sen ol cocugum!..
Bizi Kurtaran
Öndere inan.
Sözünü tutan
Sen ol cocugum!..
Küçücüksün bugün,
Yarin büyürsün.
Her iste üstün
Sen ol cocugum!..
Çalisip ogren
Herseyi bilen,(HOPPALAAAAA!)
Yurduna güven
Sen ol cocugum!..
Milli Inkar ve beyin yikama bakani
Hasan Ali Yucel
Oi Dingo!
Did you read Bruce Fein`s latest disclosure;
"Armenians killed 2 million Ottomans.They do not want this fact to get out that`s why they shall not open their archives.We did a study 1981 and found that Armenians caused the death of 2 million ottomans as opposed to 500.000 Armenian deaths,These are definite facts,ythen we decided not to do anything else since Diaspora is making a lot of money out of this issue and big money is big business in the USA so the administration lets them get on with this"
you sleazy b.strads!this is the reality,now deal with it..
by the way Bruce Fein was the guy that worked for Reagan...see if you can make your fcuking lies stick...never..never again!
Dander

Deloraine, Australia

#5 Apr 28, 2014
I will send a copy of NUTUK to Bruce.
He needs some real insight rather than repeating denialist IT remnant Fake Jihadist coward turk propaganda.
Any objeections?
THE CANNONBALLER

Northampton, UK

#6 Apr 28, 2014
Dander wrote:
I will send a copy of NUTUK to Bruce.
He needs some real insight rather than repeating denialist IT remnant Fake Jihadist coward turk propaganda.
Any objeections?
forget the Nutuk just accept the reality.in short Dingo,unles you are one of the embezzellers,the diaspora has been fleecing your people all these years..just ask them to open the archives..stop hiding behind BS!
YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF TO BE AN INTELLIGENT ARMENIAN,WHY CAN`T YOU DO YOUUR OWN NUMEBR CRUNCHING.
and stop callinf Mr Fein a liar,he deals in facts,disprove him if you can...you got nothing son..
stop barking under the wrong tree..
Enver Pasa

Deloraine, Australia

#7 Apr 28, 2014
Some hayvans rather read a Republican idiot who served Reagan but could not stop Ragan Call it a GENOCIDE, now claim NUTUK is shit and want to forget about it!!
What else you want to forget you idiots?
Your dillema is greater than your denial.
If Ottoman was not capable of protecting 2 million Muslims then she was less capable to protect the Christians.
This is how they instigated the Fake Jihadist Genocide of 1915.
TRUTHlover

Sydney, Australia

#8 Apr 28, 2014
Hello Dandik (aka Dander),

I see you still are here ... still continuing with your fairy stories...
:-).. I sincerely start feeling sorry for you ...

Whatever you say mate, fact is that

a.) the Turks did not kill all those poor souls intentionally (although I am convinced that some were, and many which were in the mindset of that time certainly deserved it!)

b.) the number you and your people quote can't be correct. Firstly, nobody knows the correct number, your number is an estimate based on dubious claims and calculations. Secondly, as it becomes more and more obvious, the bad bad Turks seems to have adopted or taken in during these turbulent times (btw. for both ethnic groups) 1000's and 1000's of Armenian children and families.
Where are these people in your calculations?

Ohhhh ya, I remember, because they became "Turkish" or Muslim, therefore they "died" in your (Armo) eyes... From being 'Angel Armenians' they became 'Devil Turks'...

Well for me, with intentionally disregarding these very important facts by you and other Armenian lobbyists, your entire credibility died!
Cheers,
TRUTHlover

Sydney, Australia

#9 Apr 28, 2014
Enver Pasa wrote:
...

If Ottoman was not capable of protecting 2 million Muslims then she was less capable to protect the Christians.
...
This is a proven fact... and your ancestors tried to profit from this situation to establish their dreams of 'Greater Armenia', isn't it?

Cheers,
Fact

Sydney, Australia

#12 Apr 28, 2014
THE CANNONBALLER wrote:
<quoted text>
Oi Dingo!
Did you read Bruce Fein`s latest disclosure;
"Armenians killed 2 million Ottomans.They do not want this fact to get out that`s why they shall not open their archives.We did a study 1981 and found that Armenians caused the death of 2 million ottomans as opposed to 500.000 Armenian deaths,These are definite facts,ythen we decided not to do anything else since Diaspora is making a lot of money out of this issue and big money is big business in the USA so the administration lets them get on with this"
you sleazy b.strads!this is the reality,now deal with it..
by the way Bruce Fein was the guy that worked for Reagan...see if you can make your fcuking lies stick...never..never again!
Your living in the past,
The world has woken up to this kind of old RUBBISH!
Fact

Sydney, Australia

#13 Apr 28, 2014
Dander wrote:
I will send a copy of NUTUK to Bruce.
He needs some real insight rather than repeating denialist IT remnant Fake Jihadist coward turk propaganda.
Any objeections?
Lol, the morons think old propaganda material hasn't been exposed, Lol
Enver Pasa

Deloraine, Australia

#14 Apr 28, 2014
TRUTHlover wrote:
<quoted text>
This is a proven fact... and your ancestors tried to profit from this situation to establish their dreams of 'Greater Armenia', isn't it?
Cheers,
You Poor fk
TR needs far more than idiots like you to save face.
Of course it is a proven fact.
TR is the compromised version of a Fake Jihadist Turan dream that went horribly pear shaped.
Why do you think we had to run like dogs with our tails between our legs to hide in Germany?
Do yo think Gauck does not know that?
Pres. Gauck and Germany, despite a Genocidal past, look and surely are incomparably more dignified and stronger than the IT remnant Fake Jihadist denialist turkey trying to score so desperately.
BTW, you also should read the NUTUK and find out about the ownership debate about the hot potato called Fake Jihad.
map maker

Melbourne, Australia

#15 Apr 28, 2014
TRUTHlover wrote:
<quoted text>
This is a proven fact... and your ancestors tried to profit from this situation to establish their dreams of 'Greater Armenia', isn't it?
Cheers,
"TRUTHlover",....... ..oh, the irony!!!!)

What on God's earth is "Greater Armenia" ?

There was no "Armenia" in 1915 to be made "greater".

I can see Bulgaria trying to establish a "Greater Bulgaria". I can see Greece trying to establish a "Greater Greece". And Serbia. And Romania amongst others. But what hell is "Greater Armenia" when "Armenia" does not even exist in 1915 ? It's a purely nonsensical phrase. It's a term that makes no sense. So where does this stupid term come from ? Not from the western world, that is for sure.
map maker

Melbourne, Australia

#16 Apr 29, 2014
TRUTHlover wrote:
<quoted text>
This is a proven fact... and your ancestors tried to profit from this situation to establish their dreams of 'Greater Armenia', isn't it?
Cheers,
"TRUTHlover"........ ..hahaha the irony!),

The TRUTHS are these.

1. There was no Armenian state to make "Greater" in 1914.
2. There was a Turkish state to make "Greater" in 1914 and that state was the Ottoman Empire.
3. Russia was at war with the mighty Germans and Austro-Hungarians when the Turks sneakily tried to "profit from the situation" by, without warning, attacking Russia in pursuit of their dreams of "Greater Turkiye".

"TRUTHlover", did you love those TRUTHS ?
THE CANNONBALLER

Northampton, UK

#17 Apr 30, 2014
Enver Pasa wrote:
Some hayvans rather read a Republican idiot who served Reagan but could not stop Ragan Call it a GENOCIDE, now claim NUTUK is shit and want to forget about it!!
What else you want to forget you idiots?
Your dillema is greater than your denial.
If Ottoman was not capable of protecting 2 million Muslims then she was less capable to protect the Christians.
This is how they instigated the Fake Jihadist Genocide of 1915.
Oi! Dingo Kid...
youi know this Armenia genocide is a manufactured horseshite...that`s what`s gonna end up as,under feet ,dried and taken away by wind and water..i always said it;if you have a case;take it to the courts eh?but you can`t since politics is bullshite and sometimes bullshite sticks..yet not this time dingo...never on this issue!
TRUTHlover

Sydney, Australia

#18 Apr 30, 2014
map maker wrote:
<quoted text>
"TRUTHlover",....... ..oh, the irony!!!!)
What on God's earth is "Greater Armenia" ?
There was no "Armenia" in 1915 to be made "greater".
I can see Bulgaria trying to establish a "Greater Bulgaria". I can see Greece trying to establish a "Greater Greece". And Serbia. And Romania amongst others. But what hell is "Greater Armenia" when "Armenia" does not even exist in 1915 ? It's a purely nonsensical phrase. It's a term that makes no sense. So where does this stupid term come from ? Not from the western world, that is for sure.
Mate,

Frankly there is not much to reply to such a post...
Except, you might consider to learn your own history...

Perhaps, Mr Dander, who 1-2 years ago claimed to be a retired history teacher, may can aid you in learning your own history, as a hint, I refer to the public speeches of your Armo (ARF) leaders in Erzurum and Van 1914 & 1915... declaring their open war to the Ottomans, swearing to kill any Turk and Muslim in their 'national homeland' until Greater Armenia is reinstalled...

Yes, and then you are coming here and claiming the Turks wanted to pursue ethnic cleansing...
Cheers,
TRUTHlover

Sydney, Australia

#19 Apr 30, 2014
map maker wrote:
<quoted text>
"TRUTHlover"........ ..hahaha the irony!),
The TRUTHS are these.
1. There was no Armenian state to make "Greater" in 1914.
2. There was a Turkish state to make "Greater" in 1914 and that state was the Ottoman Empire.
3. Russia was at war with the mighty Germans and Austro-Hungarians when the Turks sneakily tried to "profit from the situation" by, without warning, attacking Russia in pursuit of their dreams of "Greater Turkiye".
"TRUTHlover", did you love those TRUTHS ?
Your 1st point, you should tell to your Armo nationalist, who even today have land claims towards the Turkish Republic.

Your 2nd point, I agree here, however, the majority of the Armo's already lived in the Ottoman Empire, thus what is your point. If it is linked to your 1st point, I already have replied to it.

Your 3rd point: Well this is a long story, to make it short, yes I agree the Russians were attacked, but it is also well documented that also these ships now were sailing under Ottoman Flag, they still received their orders from Berlin not from Istanbul. It is demonstrated that the 'bombing orders' were issued by the German Navy head quarters and not by the Ottomans.

Yes you are right, it was a fatal decision by the Ottoman Government (the Sultan had nothing to do with it) to provide refuge to the German battle ships (fleeing from the Brits) and later on accepting these ships as a present from the German Kaiser (who already was in war with the Russians), without exchanging the crews...

Very bad judgement... but still the Armo's were Ottoman subjects, why did they have to support the Russians? Why did they had to volunteers in the Russian army in the 1000's?
Because they wanted to destroy the Ottoman state and install (as had done all the Balkan states: Greece, Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia etc.) their own Armenian state.

All in all, there is nothing bad in such a wish and the pursue of it...
However, do not get upset if the Ottoman took the necessary measures to prevent them in succeeding...

Were all Armenians guilty of betrayal?
Of course not, but a large part of their secular and spiritual leadership. They carry the responsibility for the end result, they ignited the bomb, it should lie on their conscience - not on the Ottoman's, who did his best to protect and rescue his country and ethnic group from total disintegrating...

Cheers,
Dander

Deloraine, Australia

#20 Apr 30, 2014
Assad is frantically trying to prevent his country from total disintegration.
May be he should have listened to Erdogan and implemented the social and political reforms instead of having to spill blood of innocent civilians.
Saddam did not need to commit a Genocide at Halabca, all he had to do was to assign autonomy to the Kurds and gain them as friends rather than making a monster out of himself.
They both knew the IT turks' fate and the undignified burden of denial they left behind as legacy for their remnants in TR, but they still did it never the less.
TRUTHlover

Sydney, Australia

#21 Apr 30, 2014
Dander wrote:
Assad is frantically trying to prevent his country from total disintegration.
May be he should have listened to Erdogan and implemented the social and political reforms instead of having to spill blood of innocent civilians.
Saddam did not need to commit a Genocide at Halabca, all he had to do was to assign autonomy to the Kurds and gain them as friends rather than making a monster out of himself.
They both knew the IT turks' fate and the undignified burden of denial they left behind as legacy for their remnants in TR, but they still did it never the less.
No idea, how much Saddam knew or Assad knows about Ottoman history...

Yes I agree, certainly, if Assad would have listened to his "brother" Erdogan, he could have avoided the disintegration of his country.

In regards to the Halebce Gas attack, Sadam was not the first who used gas against the Kurds! It was WINSTON CHURCHILL in 1920 during the Kurdish revolt in North Iraq (Ath Thawra al Iraqiyya al Kubra).

Quote from the British War Office Minutes from 12/05/1919, Speaker Wiston Churchill:

"...I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes. The moral effect should be so good that the loss of [British] life should be reduced to a minimum..."

Niall Ferguson, in his 2006 book The War of the World, writes:

"To end the Iraqi Insurgency of 1920 ... the British relied on a combination of aerial bombardment and punitive village burning expeditions. Indeed, they even contemplated using mustard gas too, though supplies proved unavailable".

Anthony Clayton writes in The Oxford History of the British Empire that "[T]he use of poisonous gas was never sanctioned, however used by local High Command".

The British Manual of Military Law stated that the rules of war applied only to conflict "between civilized nations." Already in the Manual of 1914, it was clearly stated that "they do not apply in wars with uncivilized States and tribes" (HMSO, 1914, p. 235)

Yes, and then there are people which are condemning the Ottomans about the relocation orders for people, who openly proclaimed their hostility to everything Turkish and Muslim?

What were the Brits doing against the "uncivilised" Kurdish tribes years later in the same area????

Cheers,
Dander

Deloraine, Australia

#22 Apr 30, 2014
Some idiot turds think the world is in as much darkness and denial as they are regarding their IT turk past.
Assad listened to Erdogan but only heard his denial regarding a Genocidal IT turk past, and thought;
If they could get away with it, surely I can.
May be some thought the same in Karabagh and lost it.
Not Condemning a Fake Jihad terror is sanctioning the same today.
Erdogan is still blind to the Kurdish issue and hoping for the best that Crimea syndrome is not contagious.
He can not even comment about Tatars scared of offending Russia and rather give a stupid medal to Kirimoglu and hope that he does not realise being so cheaply sold.
I think they should all be... ed or deported to Siberia , Der Zor style Tehcir/Genocide, as a punishment of their loyalty to Kiev.
Would turkey be prepared to bomb Sivastopol again?????
I think TR has no option other than to come clean and gain some credibility.rather than relying on friends like Britain to keep her IT remnant ass covered.
TRUTHlover

Sydney, Australia

#23 May 2, 2014
Like always, you NEVER were or are capable of answering to genuine historical facts... Nonetheless, it is still interesting isn't it? This shows the mindset of the entire World at that time (keeping in mind the War Manual is from 1914 and it was applied in 1920-1923), especially of the 'Gentlemen' who wanted to trial the Turks for inhuman behaviour against the Armos...

Fact is, of course the Christian Armo was civilised, the Muslim Kurdo was not a civilised ethnic group... well at least not in their eyes... In that point it did not change very much in the last 100 yrs, isn't it?

You as a 'educated person'... what you say to this hypocrisy by the Brits? Sure nothing, because it does not assist your propaganda campaign...

You are continuing playing the same song, like a broken LP, with the hope the people will believe you... unfortunately, I have to admit indeed there are a lot of idiots, which started to believe your low IQ propaganda, thanks to your and your colleagues persistence...

On this point, I take my "Hat off"...

Karadag: As far as I can remember, it was Azeri Territory, and the aggressor (according the Entire Western World) were the Armos. Hence, can't follow your reasoning...

Crimea syndrome not contagious???? Can't follow...

Only idiots would compare the understanding of Human Rights of Today, with events 100 years ago, based on the mindset of the World 100 yrs ago.

Ohhh, you do not agree, well then let us compare it with the understanding/mindset of the time when the "mighty" Armenian Kings ruled the region...
Do you remember, what they would do, when they would conquer a place?

They would ALWAYS massacre the WHOLE population, except the 'young woman', which they would sell off as slaves... I repeat, the entire enemy population, men, women (except young - whatever that meant), small children (incl. babies), old people...

Now I ask you, who has Genocide in his tradition?

That is not something the Turkish historians claim, your own history writers are proudly proclaiming this...

In regards to Crimea, Turkey knows very well what she is doing... You will soon see the results... The medal, was a clear sign to Russia, but surely, low IQ people will not understand this, however, Putin has a high IQ...

In regards to Britain, well mate, in 1914-20 etc. they were your friends... they promised you a lot of things, didn't they?
Wow, 99 yrs ago they promised you independence bla...bla...bla... now they are covering the Turks azzes?

Well, would you have chosen 100 yrs ago your genuine friend and brother... who the last 1000 yrs plus protected always your azz... YOU wouldn't have this discussion today...

It is a shame, isn't it?

Cheers,

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