Record Number Of Visitors To Auschwit...

Record Number Of Visitors To Auschwitz Death Camp In 2007

There are 32 comments on the Combined Jewish Philanthropies story from Jan 15, 2008, titled Record Number Of Visitors To Auschwitz Death Camp In 2007. In it, Combined Jewish Philanthropies reports that:

The memorial and museum at the former Auschwitz- Birkenau concentration camp in Poland attracted a record number of visitors in 2007. via Combined Jewish Philanthropies

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Combined Jewish Philanthropies.

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“...a river of conscience ...”

Since: Oct 07

Scotland

#1 Jan 15, 2008
I would like all American Jews to read this article and try their very best to understand it's implications.

It would also be a good move on the part of American Jewry to sponsor school visits for kids to go and see for themselves to get a true perspective of the "political" situation within their communities regarding the Holocaust.

This statement is also applicable to many other people.

Nothing teaches the truth better than the evidence itself. To touch it, to feel it and to smell it helps you understand it. Once you understand, then you can progress beyond it.

It's actually quite enlightening to compare this Jewish report with the report just a few articles earlier on the same topic. Change a few details and the feel of the article is completely different. This is the political manipulation I speak of.
reza santorini

Skokie, IL

#2 Jan 25, 2008
American Jews know this..and Americans in general know what the article said.

American Jews have been visiting the camps for years and year. What happened in the camps during the War is shameful. To pretend it didn't and to change what was truth and to have the camps workers treat the area like it was a zoo or circus bothered the Jews. It bothered me, a Christian Arab. I am glad for the world that this atmosphere no long reigns. The political manipulation goes both ways.
reza santorini

Skokie, IL

#3 Jan 25, 2008
Oh yes, American Jewish children, with the help of their Synogogues have been visiting the camps for years. It was their reaction to what the saw at the camps that helped form some opinion. They went their knowing and feeling it was a horrid example of man's potential for hatred. They mostly went as part of a trip to Israel where they saw Yad Vashem, where it was quiet, respectful and honor given to all Nations who suffered in this War against their people. Some of their people were Polish Jews.

The complaints against the Polish peoples treatment and the dimishment of the fact that Nazi's primary target was Jewery and Poland had a great population and thus suffered much was lost in this. It was lost because the reason of their trip, to learn about their people was downgraded to a War about Poland. These same children were taught about the fight the Poles gave to Communism. They supported the Poles. They just didn't get back respect for their losses. In Israel and the US Holocaust Museums they get both, including the realization this War was not only in Poland.
Abe

Brooklyn, NY

#4 Jan 25, 2008
reza santorini wrote:
American Jews know this..and Americans in general know what the article said.
American Jews have been visiting the camps for years and year. What happened in the camps during the War is shameful. To pretend it didn't and to change what was truth and to have the camps workers treat the area like it was a zoo or circus bothered the Jews. It bothered me, a Christian Arab. I am glad for the world that this atmosphere no long reigns. The political manipulation goes both ways.
No one treats the camps like a circus. But there have been many reports about Jews and Israeli's who visit Poland and the camps who disrepect everyone Polish they come in to contact with. Whether its Polish flight attendents on the plane or anyone else.

As a 1/2 Jew I am bothered by the anti-Polish bigotry of so-called Holocaust students "visiting" Auschwitz each year. Even 10 years ago Israeli/Jewish "students" were treating Poles in Poland like second class citizens while being protected by their Israeli armed guards.

Norman Finkelstein in his 2000 book "The Holocaust Industry" talked about the constant disrespect Jewish "students" show to Poles in their so-called Auschwitz-Holocaust trips to Poland. This still continues sadly.

Year after year this happens. Poles are afraid to speak out on this for fear of the POWERFUL liberal/Jewish media VICIOUSLY BASHING Poland as "anti-semitic this and anti-semitic that". But sometimes this anti-Polish bigotry gets so bad that some Poles do speak out against it nevertheless.

Its seems ironically that SOME Israeli media has more sympathy for the Poles from Jewish anti-Polonism bigotry then the "mainstream" media.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-340...

Since: Aug 07

Location hidden

#5 Jan 25, 2008
Abe wrote:
<quoted text>
As a 1/2 Jew
So, where do you figure?

What is a 1/2 Jew ? Genetically I can understand it, but where do you fit racially, spiritially, emotionally?

Do you consider yourself a Jew or 1/2 something else? Do you follow the Jewish faith or not? Were you baptised as a Jew, or not?

There must be a point where you have to choose being something completely, or not at all.

Just curious.
doodle

New Haven, IN

#6 Jan 26, 2008
thats good.
People should see what happened.
we shouldnt gloat about it but people need to see with their own eyes how people lived and died their.

“...a river of conscience ...”

Since: Oct 07

Scotland

#7 Jan 26, 2008
Robespierre wrote:
<quoted text>
So, where do you figure?
What is a 1/2 Jew ? Genetically I can understand it, but where do you fit racially, spiritially, emotionally?
Do you consider yourself a Jew or 1/2 something else? Do you follow the Jewish faith or not? Were you baptised as a Jew, or not?
There must be a point where you have to choose being something completely, or not at all.
Just curious.
From anyone else that may seem a normal sort of question, but given the amount of vitriol that you've put out towards Abe, I'd suggest that this is a leading question, and perhaps none of your business. I know Abe is well able to take care of himself, but nevertheless, that is my own tuppence worth. As for emotional connection it is fairly obvious that Abe is first and foremost a Pole, as we all are. Racially you've already done the brainwork on, and spiritually we all all from the same motherlode regardless of what we believe, hence the so called religious wars have in actuality nothing to do with religion and all to do with greed and genetics.
rezasantorini

Skokie, IL

#8 Jan 26, 2008
Abe wrote:
<quoted text>
No one treats the camps like a circus. But there have been many reports about Jews and Israeli's who visit Poland and the camps who disrepect everyone Polish they come in to contact with. Whether its Polish flight attendents on the plane or anyone else.
As a 1/2 Jew I am bothered by the anti-Polish bigotry of so-called Holocaust students "visiting" Auschwitz each year. Even 10 years ago Israeli/Jewish "students" were treating Poles in Poland like second class citizens while being protected by their Israeli armed guards.
Norman Finkelstein in his 2000 book "The Holocaust Industry" talked about the constant disrespect Jewish "students" show to Poles in their so-called Auschwitz-Holocaust trips to Poland. This still continues sadly.
Year after year this happens. Poles are afraid to speak out on this for fear of the POWERFUL liberal/Jewish media VICIOUSLY BASHING Poland as "anti-semitic this and anti-semitic that". But sometimes this anti-Polish bigotry gets so bad that some Poles do speak out against it nevertheless.
Its seems ironically that SOME Israeli media has more sympathy for the Poles from Jewish anti-Polonism bigotry then the "mainstream" media.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-340...
Look Abe that was my experience and it made me, a Catholic, very angry. When I came back I spoke to my neighbors, they had the same experience and no one could tell them when the "museum" was open. Additionally, I spoke with a nearby Hebrew school principal who said they always took their kids to the camps in Poland prior to leaving for Israel. Many of these kids had grandparents from Poland, who were salvaged from the camps. I gather this is no longer the situation, that it was changed. Yet they hear that some people want the name changed and the stories are that they don't want to be associated with Auschwitz. Can't say I blame them.

So if you refuse to hear anything other the the hate you sprout and insist of sprouting, instead of learning you just validate what these people said about their experience.

My friends family, now in France, came from Poland. They even have the address of their family home. It still exists. They do not claim it as their own, although they left it and their belongings behind hoping to get to Marsailles before the Nazi's marched on them. Nothing, they said, would make up for the experience.

If Poland would only admit that Jews suffered and died instead of saying the Jews didn't have it bad, we did.
World history knows what Hitler was doing.

With regard to the powerful Jewish media, you really are not paying too much attention to the fact that the papers are constantly attacking Israel because they pay back Gaza for the "little home made bombs." Headlines often read Israel attacks Gaza. The story of Lebanon leaves out that 3 Israelis were kidnapped, the reason for the last War. Please that story is pure propaganda. I just read a list of newpapers and publishers...it still is a good old boy business.

Yes, I was offered a bag of dirt from
Auschwitz. There was food being sold. It was not treated as a cemetary, which in fact it is. It was not treated with respect. Don't tell me what I saw and experienced.

Yes, Jewish kids are bad and disrespectful. I've not run into any Christian kids who have Polish roots that are disrespectful or break the laws. As I have a degree in therapy and am called for interventions abuse for rape and marital violence, I am lucky enough to have met some Polish people, as well. Not all are perfect.
And, as far as I am concerned Jews should not go back to Aushwitz on Polish airlines...they may meet people like you.

Since: Aug 07

Location hidden

#9 Jan 26, 2008
HealingTime wrote:
<quoted text>
I know Abe is well able to take care of himself,
Well, in that case he doesn't need you as his bodyguard then !
Abe

Brooklyn, NY

#10 Jan 26, 2008
rezasantorini wrote:
<quoted text>
Look Abe that was my experience and it made me, a Catholic, very angry.....

So if you refuse to hear anything other the the hate you sprout and insist of sprouting, instead of learning you just validate what these people said about their experience.
Reza,

What "hate" am I spreading?? When I provide Jewish sources that have the courage to talk about recent as well as historical Jewish (Not all Jews of course) bad behavior (large collaboration with Soviet Communism's destruction of East Europeans), do you consider that "hate"??

Please give me specific examples of my "hate".
Abe

Brooklyn, NY

#11 Jan 26, 2008
rezasantorini wrote:
<quoted text>
If Poland would only admit that Jews suffered and died instead of saying the Jews didn't have it bad, we did.
Reza,

What planet are you on??

When have I or any Poles said the Jews did not have it bad? Are you crazy?? Its the other way around. People like you say ITS THE POLES who did not have it bad despite their WHOLE country being destroyed.

Polish leaders have been apologizing for any anti-semitism that existed in Poland almost ALL the time. From president Lech Walesa to president Alexander Krasinewski (who is half Jewish) to the current president Kaszynski.

When a criminal Pole assaulted a Jew about a year ago President Kaczynski APOLOGIZED to him personally. When an American hurts a Jew in an anti-semitic crime does President Bush apologize to him??? All the Polish leadership does is apologize to Jews and praise Israel. BUT it seems like IT IS NEVER ENOUGH for the Jewish Holocaust Industry out there like yourself.

The Jewish Holocaust Industry feels the more it accuses the Poles of everything under the Sun the more the Poles will feel indebeted to them! And of course the Jewish Holocaust Industry STILL refuses to explain WHY Jews chose to live in Poland for 1000 YEARS if it was so "anti-semitic".

Its funny how many Non-Polish anti-semites say that president Kaczynski is a "Jew-lover" or "Israeli agent" because of all of his praise of Israel, while Polish-haters say he's an "anti-semite" because he's Polish. I always thought that was funny and that maybe those two groups of people should talk to each other.

But the Jewish Holocaust Industry controlled media always writes slanted stories about the criminal element of Poles and their anti-semitic crimes. They always define Poland by its criminal element. And of course they ignore all of the bad things Jewish criminals in Poland have done to Poles.

The REAL Polish anti-semites that you obsess on are less then 5% of the country. If that was not true then WHY do the radical Polish Anti-Semitic parties in Poland always FAIL to get more then 5% of the Polish Vote??????????
Abe

Brooklyn, NY

#12 Jan 26, 2008
rezasantorini wrote:
<quoted text>
Look Abe that was my experience and it made me, a Catholic, very angry.

If Poland would only admit that Jews suffered and died instead of saying the Jews didn't have it bad, we did.
And another thing Reza baby,

Did you have a little Fruedian slip of the tongue when you said WE DID???? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Who is "WE"? WE can only mean you being a Jew!! Now there is nothing wrong with you saying you are a Jew since yours truly is half Jewish.

BUT YOU HAVE SAID BEFORE that you are NOT Jewish!!!!!! You have said that you are an Arab Catholic/Christian.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHH HHHHH Reza BABY!!

It looks like you have been fibbing to uncle Abi!!

It looks like you're Jewish afterall!!

OOOOOOOOHHHHHHH I'm telling on ya!!! I'm GOING to tell everyone!!!!!!! lol

I'm just kidding!!

But why lie and say you are NOT Jewish??? What are you ashamed of??

I'm proud of my half Jewish heritage. I just don't like certain bad Jews that make the rest of the Jewish people look bad.

Reza don't deny who you are. Be proud of who you really are!! I'm proud of my part Jewish heritage!!

“...a river of conscience ...”

Since: Oct 07

Scotland

#13 Jan 26, 2008
No Abe, I believe Reza is who she says she is. We must grant her that honour and privilege. If we start to doubt people for who they are, then it's pointless even bothering to switch on these blasted PCs.
Abe

Brooklyn, NY

#14 Jan 26, 2008
HealingTime wrote:
No Abe, I believe Reza is who she says she is. We must grant her that honour and privilege. If we start to doubt people for who they are, then it's pointless even bothering to switch on these blasted PCs.
Well HT my friend I respectfully disagree.

Look at her location. She is from Skokie Illinois. It is has one of the biggest concentrations of Jewish Americans in the MidWest. Not that that means there are no Arab Christians there.

I always thought she was Jewish. No Arab Christian would be reading all of these Jewish-ethnocentric media sources the way she does. I don't care how she tries to explain that away.

Actually as a part Jew I am kind of insulted that she denies her Jewish heritage.

I know many Jews and what she says reflects almost perfectly the talking points of sadly that element of the Jewish community that is influenced by the Polish-hating Holocaust Industry.

Sad to say, ironically, they like the Nazi Germans see the Poles as inferior. I'm almost surprised that the Nazi Germans and Jews were such enemies given their almost identical views of the "inferior Poles"

They are so used to bulldozing their anti-Polish propaganda in the mass media with the help of the Holocaust Industry: NY Times, LA Times, Time Magazine etc., WITHOUT getting any resistance, that they just go crazy when the "intellectually inferior Poles" resist their anti-Polish hatred on these forums. Thank God for the internet!

But back to the original point, OK maybe I will play along with her that she is really not Jewish.

“...a river of conscience ...”

Since: Oct 07

Scotland

#15 Jan 26, 2008
Abe wrote:
<quoted text>
Well HT my friend I respectfully disagree.
Look at her location. She is from Skokie Illinois. It is has one of the biggest concentrations of Jewish Americans in the MidWest. Not that that means there are no Arab Christians there.
I always thought she was Jewish. No Arab Christian would be reading all of these Jewish-ethnocentric media sources the way she does. I don't care how she tries to explain that away.
Actually as a part Jew I am kind of insulted that she denies her Jewish heritage.
I know many Jews and what she says reflects almost perfectly the talking points of sadly that element of the Jewish community that is influenced by the Polish-hating Holocaust Industry.
Sad to say, ironically, they like the Nazi Germans see the Poles as inferior. I'm almost surprised that the Nazi Germans and Jews were such enemies given their almost identical views of the "inferior Poles"
They are so used to bulldozing their anti-Polish propaganda in the mass media with the help of the Holocaust Industry: NY Times, LA Times, Time Magazine etc., WITHOUT getting any resistance, that they just go crazy when the "intellectually inferior Poles" resist their anti-Polish hatred on these forums. Thank God for the internet!
But back to the original point, OK maybe I will play along with her that she is really not Jewish.
Abe,

Well you may be right Abe, but for me as far as the argument goes Reza as she is may as well just be a straw man, her identity does not matter. From a human point of view, when I talk to people I try to make some kind of personal contact. I find it most disappointing when I come across "professional campaigners" who are only interested in propagating an argument. That Roger was one. The Jewish groups use many, that is obvious. Anyway, when I see one I normally just treat him or her as disposable.

What I do find extremely interesting is the lack of overt Jewish interest in our discussions, especially with the heightened American interest in Poland at the moment. Perhaps, Reza is indeed a covert agent for that. There have been a couple of times anonymous people have appeared related to the missiles, and others, where they were trying to give the impression that hey we're not too bad, accept us and you'll do okay with us.

AS for Jewish hierarchies, you'll know more about it then I will. But I do get the impression that even within the Jewish community there is a strict delineation of social standing, most probably related to religious attainment. There is most certainly a hidden sneering at the Christian religion, which is seen as markedly inferior to the Jewish more philosophical approach. But this is very much hidden as within the USA they are obviously highly dependent on the goodwill of the Evangelists to maintain their positions with the government administration. There was also a ranking between the German Jews and the Eastern Jews, based on attainment of wealth. That has in all likelihood disappeared now. In Poland itself, most Jews held their traditional positions in banking and at the lower end in crafts, very few would do menial jobs even when starving. In the UK we lived in Leeds for a while, and I know that most of the large Jewish population there would hire house cleaners and the like, even if they could not really afford them. Ordinary Yorkshire people would not dream of doing this.

One of the big lessons of the 1930's has been that they need to integrate within their new societies. So unlike in Poland, most Jews unless they are orthodox will be fairly indistinguishable from a typical New Yorker or Leeds man. This simple act of accepting social norms, has made acceptance of Jews much more straight forward. A lessons the newer immigrants such as the Muslims are still learning.
Abe

Brooklyn, NY

#16 Jan 26, 2008
HealingTime wrote:
<quoted text>
Abe,
There have been a couple of times anonymous people have appeared related to the missiles, and others, where they were trying to give the impression that hey we're not too bad, accept us and you'll do okay with us.
HT what do you mean by the above?

What do you mean by "where they were trying to give the impression that hey we're not too bad, accept us and you'll do okay with us"

Could you elaborate on this??
Abe

Brooklyn, NY

#17 Jan 26, 2008
HealingTime wrote:
<quoted text>
Abe,
Well you may be right Abe, but for me as far as the argument goes Reza as she is may as well just be a straw man, her identity does not matter. From a human point of view, when I talk to people I try to make some kind of personal contact.......

One of the big lessons of the 1930's has been that they need to integrate within their new societies. So unlike in Poland, most Jews unless they are orthodox will be fairly indistinguishable from a typical New Yorker or Leeds man. This simple act of accepting social norms, has made acceptance of Jews much more straight forward. A lessons the newer immigrants such as the Muslims are still learning.
HT,
I see what your saying and a lot of it is true.
I think your notion of integration and assimilation is key. If you don't have that in ANY country you are going to have trouble. That is why I have been critical, dare I say, of forced multiculturalism where any nation takes in many different ethnic groups and they don't at least strive to have ONE MAIN culture and language.

There was an article in the Wall Street Journal which said towns in the US which were the most diverse had the LEAST TRUST among its citizens. In other words the citizens of towns which had a lot of different ethnic groups, religions, felt very uncomfortable with one another. This shouldn't be any surprise. Its just human nature that people feel most comfortable with other people who speak their language and have a similar culture. It has nothing to do with "hate" and "racism" which are words the liberal media loves to throw around.

I get so damn sick of this GROUP IDENTITY POLITICS within a nation. I get sick of when I hear ethnic group A decides to live in country B and then ethnic group A sticks to its OWN culture and language and then COMPLAINS when it doesn't have full rights as country B citizens and that "country B citizens are racist blah blah blah". If ethnic group A doesn't like Nation B THEY SHOULD GET THE F*** out of the nation and stop complaining!

I think countries like the US, France, Britain, Russia for example are on a down road spiral because quite frankly they have ethnic groups that don't want to assimilate and still have this attitude of MY PEOPLE THIS and MY PEOPLE THAT! I feel like saying to these people with this MY PEOPLE attitude to go back to where they came from if they don't want to assimilate.
Abe

Brooklyn, NY

#18 Jan 26, 2008
HealingTime wrote:
<quoted text>
Abe,
Well you may be right Abe, but for me as far as the argument goes Reza as she is may as well just be a straw man, her identity does not matter. From a human point of view, when I talk to people I try to make some kind of personal contact. I find it most disappointing when I come across "professional campaigners" who are only interested in propagating an argument. That Roger was one. The Jewish groups use many, that is obvious. Anyway, when I see one I normally just treat him or her as disposable.
What I do find extremely interesting is the lack of overt Jewish interest in our discussions, especially with the heightened American interest in Poland at the moment. Perhaps, Reza is indeed a covert agent for that. There have been a couple of times anonymous people have appeared related to the missiles, and others, where they were trying to give the impression that hey we're not too bad, accept us and you'll do okay with us.
AS for Jewish hierarchies, you'll know more about it then I will. But I do get the impression that even within the Jewish community there is a strict delineation of social standing, most probably related to religious attainment. There is most certainly a hidden sneering at the Christian religion, which is seen as markedly inferior to the Jewish more philosophical approach. But this is very much hidden as within the USA they are obviously highly dependent on the goodwill of the Evangelists to maintain their positions with the government administration. There was also a ranking between the German Jews and the Eastern Jews, based on attainment of wealth. That has in all likelihood disappeared now. In Poland itself, most Jews held their traditional positions in banking and at the lower end in crafts, very few would do menial jobs even when starving. In the UK we lived in Leeds for a while, and I know that most of the large Jewish population there would hire house cleaners and the like, even if they could not really afford them. Ordinary Yorkshire people would not dream of doing this.
One of the big lessons of the 1930's has been that they need to integrate within their new societies. So unlike in Poland, most Jews unless they are orthodox will be fairly indistinguishable from a typical New Yorker or Leeds man. This simple act of accepting social norms, has made acceptance of Jews much more straight forward. A lessons the newer immigrants such as the Muslims are still learning.
HT, continued....

This can definitely be applied to Poland sad to say.

They thought they would be good little catholics and let in some down trodden people and those "downtrodden" people have NEVER let go of their MY PEOPLE THIS AND MY PEOPLE THAT attitude (after dozens of generations) and so Poland is still suffering from all of their slander and lies.

The worst thing any nation can do is to let another ethnic group into it that does not want to assimilate quickly.

Poland is still suffering from a psuedo-balkanization atmosphere even though its mostly homogenous. I think it was a big mistake for Poland historically to let other ethnic groups into it without an accelerated assimilation program.

“...a river of conscience ...”

Since: Oct 07

Scotland

#19 Jan 27, 2008
Abe wrote:
<quoted text>
HT what do you mean by the above?
What do you mean by "where they were trying to give the impression that hey we're not too bad, accept us and you'll do okay with us"
Could you elaborate on this??
I'll need to dig these out. But certainly in one of the early missile articles, a guy appeared from the USA and started asking about what the opinion in Poland was, and then went on about the financial benefits.

That Roger guy as well, he appeared and randomly came out with Poland being the land of cremetoria and crap like that.
Observer

Bois-d'haine, Belgium

#20 Jan 27, 2008
HealingTime wrote:
No Abe, I believe Reza is who she says she is. We must grant her that honour and privilege. If we start to doubt people for who they are, then it's pointless even bothering to switch on these blasted PCs.
Ok but then how does one deal with Robbie Boy? Who is he really?

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