Fiscal cliff: Impasse on tax rates is...

Fiscal cliff: Impasse on tax rates is big hurdle

There are 76 comments on the ChannelOne story from Nov 8, 2012, titled Fiscal cliff: Impasse on tax rates is big hurdle. In it, ChannelOne reports that:

House Republicans' hard line against higher tax rates for upper-income earners leaves re-elected President Barack Obama with a tough, core decision: Does he pick a fight and risk falling off a "fiscal cliff" or does he rush to compromise and risk alienating liberal Democrats? Obama has been silent since his victory speech early Wednesday morning, ... (more)

Join the discussion below, or Read more at ChannelOne.

3OHA

San Jose, CA

#21 Nov 9, 2012
FFS- wrote:
<quoted text>THe repub majority in congress only exists due to gerrymandering. The demographic shifts will make this short lived also!
Conservatives need to face reality. Tax hikes are needed along with spending cuts.
The only tax hike necessary is to find a way to tax the underground economy made of dopers, SSI cheats and other current Democrat voter cheats and takers.

Since: Aug 10

Rochester, NY

#22 Nov 9, 2012
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
What spending cuts are the democrats offering? Just defense?
I read where Allen West is overcoming his gerrymandering.:-)
Republicans gerrymandering the tea party out.
Wow, did you miss how this whole fiscal cliff was created? I can remind you!

This whole mess only exists because conservatives used the debt ceiling as a bargaining chip, and this is what they came up with! Dems offered cuts to programs that should be untouchable, and got nothing in return!

TAX HIKES ARE NEEDED, its simply a fact.

The top tax rates were higher in EVERY decade prior to bush, and the economy did fine, and rich people were still rich people! Its time to face reality!

Since: Aug 10

Rochester, NY

#23 Nov 9, 2012
3OHA wrote:
<quoted text>
The only tax hike necessary is to find a way to tax the underground economy made of dopers, SSI cheats and other current Democrat voter cheats and takers.
Dont worry, the tax hikes Barack proposed would never affect you!
Doublewide Dreams

Miami, FL

#24 Nov 9, 2012
Eighthman wrote:
All my friends said they pulled ALL of their money out of the stock market. They said something bad was going to happen. It did. He got elected again.
Go look at what happened to the S&P 500 for the first term "he" was in office. I bet your bro's blew that one too.
Piggy

Sterling, VA

#25 Nov 9, 2012
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
What spending cuts are the democrats offering? Just defense?
I read where Allen West is overcoming his gerrymandering.:-)
Republicans gerrymandering the tea party out.
Why are you still here Teachick?
Doublewide Dreams

Miami, FL

#26 Nov 9, 2012
3OHA wrote:
Creative, producing business people should shut down. It's beyond trying to make sense to the takers, cheaters and thieves. If you make less than $45,000 a year, you can now do as well by shutting your business down. Let the Socialists feed everyone on printed money for a while and find out finally how long that will last. Shut it down. Fire the murderous females and slick dopers. Ask Obama how to run a business. Let's see if Government can force you to employ people.
Creative, producing business people and businesses making under $45K/yr don't match.
3OHA

San Jose, CA

#27 Nov 9, 2012
FFS- wrote:
<quoted text>Wow, did you miss how this whole fiscal cliff was created? I can remind you!
This whole mess only exists because conservatives used the debt ceiling as a bargaining chip, and this is what they came up with! Dems offered cuts to programs that should be untouchable, and got nothing in return!
TAX HIKES ARE NEEDED, its simply a fact.
The top tax rates were higher in EVERY decade prior to bush, and the economy did fine, and rich people were still rich people! Its time to face reality!
The fiscal cliff was created by decades of Democrat legislation hobbling US business, empowering foreign business in the US, creating repetitive economic bubbles having no basis in reality (Gore's Macarena dot/com, Frank's and Obama's housing, etc.) Democrats are the ones, who gave grants to foreigners to come and take your businesses and jobs... grants made of printed, inflated currency. Democrats effectively opened the borders to illegals and terrorists. The current redistribution of wealth is affecting widows and widowers. The Democrat Party was overrun by Socialist thieves and destroyers in the 70s, who convinced you to destroy your own futures by killing your babies. You're idiots and you deserve to suffer. You live on snark. Let's see you eat snark.
Piggy

Sterling, VA

#28 Nov 9, 2012
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
What spending cuts are the democrats offering? Just defense?
I read where Allen West is overcoming his gerrymandering.:-)
Republicans gerrymandering the tea party out.


The Pig just peeped your area Topix. Teachick you don't even post there?????? Why is that????

Teachick is just another nut.
Piggy

Sterling, VA

#29 Nov 9, 2012
3OHA wrote:
<quoted text>
The fiscal cliff was created by decades of Democrat legislation hobbling US business, empowering foreign business in the US, creating repetitive economic bubbles having no basis in reality (Gore's Macarena dot/com, Frank's and Obama's housing, etc.) Democrats are the ones, who gave grants to foreigners to come and take your businesses and jobs... grants made of printed, inflated currency. Democrats effectively opened the borders to illegals and terrorists. The current redistribution of wealth is affecting widows and widowers. The Democrat Party was overrun by Socialist thieves and destroyers in the 70s, who convinced you to destroy your own futures by killing your babies. You're idiots and you deserve to suffer. You live on snark. Let's see you eat snark.
Most of these Tea Bagger freaks are changing their names here on my DC Topix.

Oink Oink

Since: Jan 11

Abingdon, VA

#30 Nov 9, 2012
FFS- wrote:
<quoted text>Wow, did you miss how this whole fiscal cliff was created? I can remind you!
This whole mess only exists because conservatives used the debt ceiling as a bargaining chip, and this is what they came up with! Dems offered cuts to programs that should be untouchable, and got nothing in return!
TAX HIKES ARE NEEDED, its simply a fact.
The top tax rates were higher in EVERY decade prior to bush, and the economy did fine, and rich people were still rich people! Its time to face reality!
Why would a debt ceiling be needed in the first place if the government had been fiscally responsible?

Tax hikes are going to become necessary, but they have to be combined with a lot of spending cuts. I would go along with closing loop holes that benefit the rich that don't benefit small businesses. For instance, claiming gambling losses. That one always gnawed at me.

There are 300 billion dollars in duplicate programs that could be addressed. You will never see any kind of innovation out of the federal government.

Since: Jan 11

Abingdon, VA

#31 Nov 9, 2012
Piggy wrote:
<quoted text>
The Pig just peeped your area Topix. Teachick you don't even post there?????? Why is that????
Teachick is just another nut.
You're done spanking your monkey already?
cynic

Menard, TX

#32 Nov 9, 2012
The Republicans don't want to increase tax rates, the Democrats want the rich to pay more taxes. That is easy to do (increase the base, taxable income, of the wealthy) by eliminating or reducing, as Paul Ryan pointed out,“many of the deductions and preferences in the system – which serve to narrow the tax base – are mainly used by a relatively small class of mostly higher-income individuals”(Paul Ryan THE PATH TO PROSPERITY page 50). Just cut some of the preferences for the wealthy. It wouldn't hurt to cut others selectively.

The real trick is what spending to cut and how much.

Piggy

Sterling, VA

#33 Nov 9, 2012
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
You're done spanking your monkey already?
Dude I will post my real name and address here. Will you? This pig doesn't hide behind a keyboard.

Blow me.

Google Darby, my last name. My great uncle started the special forces. What has your family done? I served my country. What have you done?

Blow me.
Robert

Douglasville, GA

#34 Nov 9, 2012
anneutral wrote:
<quoted text>
http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2011/...
we owe most of it to ourselves.(it's an old article but the percentages haven't changed much)
Hong Kong:$121.9 billion (0.9 percent)
Caribbean banking centers:$148.3 (1 percent)
Taiwan:$153.4 billion (1.1 percent)
Brazil:$211.4 billion (1.5 percent)
Oil exporting countries:$229.8 billion (1.6 percent)
Mutual funds:$300.5 billion (2 percent)
Commercial banks:$301.8 billion (2.1 percent)
State, local and federal retirement funds:$320.9 billion (2.2 percent)
Money market mutual funds:$337.7 billion (2.4 percent)
United Kingdom:$346.5 billion (2.4 percent)
Private pension funds:$504.7 billion (3.5 percent)
State and local governments:$506.1 billion (3.5 percent)
Japan:$912.4 billion (6.4 percent)
U.S. households:$959.4 billion (6.6 percent)
China:$1.16 trillion (8 percent)
The U.S. Treasury:$1.63 trillion (11.3 percent)
Social Security trust fund:$2.67 trillion (19 percent)
and......
http://www.gopusa.com/theloft/2012/06/06/gues...
America keeps spending and spending and spending. The country has run up a massive amount of debt... most of it under the watch of President Barack Obama. But what we hear over and over again is that much of this debt has been backed by China.... that they exert power over us, because we owe them so much money. Think again! In reality, it is China that owes... and it owes America close to $1 trillion.
..
..
interesting stuff huh?
It is interesting but not give the they debt picture. We don't really borrow from china or any of those other countries as such, they invest in our bonds and we pay interest on the investments, and the people who buy the bonds roll them over depending on the length of the security.

The money we owe our self is money that you and your employer paid into social security which is supposed to be in the trust fund to pay benefits that were not needed at the time. With the bonds people bought as long as they think america is a safe place to put their money we just keep paying the interest but the money we owe ourselves we have to pay back as the baby boomer ages.

• Medicare:$24.8 trillion. combined with the addition of a prescription drug benefit in 2006 and rising health care costs generally — has created an unfunded liability of nearly $25 trillion over the lifetime of those now in the program as workers and retirees.

• Social Security:$21.4 trillion. Social Security's long-term shortfall grows about $1.2 trillion annually — a sign of an imbalance between the number of young workers and older beneficiaries, according to the Social Security trustees' annual reports. The $21.4 trillion unfunded liability represents the difference between all taxes that will be paid and all benefits received over the lifetimes of everyone in the system now — workers and beneficiaries alike.

Secretary of the Treasury can only pay for Social Security and Medicare out of the Trust Funds, and if the Trust Funds are depleted of cash, the rate of spending out of it will be limited to rate at which the Trust Funds are replenished with tax revenues flowing in under the current tax schedule. Because of this expect congress to almost certainly will reduce the future benefits promised to old people like me. Even if Congress does NOT act before the Trust Funds are depleted, under current law Social Security and Medicare beneficiaries would receive less than the amount of benefits provided to current beneficiaries.

I say this to say that the debt problem is real and you should not let the article dis-wade you of that.

Since: Jan 11

Abingdon, VA

#36 Nov 9, 2012
Piggy wrote:
<quoted text> Dude I will post my real name and address here. Will you? This pig doesn't hide behind a keyboard.
Blow me.
Google Darby, my last name. My great uncle started the special forces. What has your family done? I served my country. What have you done?
Blow me.
Yea right! Even if that's true, why are you living on your great uncles's legacy? What have you done?

I served it too. I even spent some time with the 3rd tanks, 3rd Marines, Dong Ha, for a while. My father was 82nd Airborne, Normandy invasion. My great grandfather fought in the cavalry at Gettysburg. Why, I'm a regular Lt. Dan, piss ant.
cynic

Menard, TX

#37 Nov 9, 2012
anneutral wrote:
<quoted text>
...
we owe most of it (the national debt) to ourselves.(it's an old article but the percentages haven't changed much)
...
U.S. households:$959.4 billion (6.6 percent)
...
The U.S. Treasury:$1.63 trillion (11.3 percent)
...
interesting stuff huh?
Presumably the US Treasury and US households will pay this part of the debt via taxes or reduced government services (aka spending cuts).

Maybe we ought to just cancel this part of the debt, save on paying interest.(When you spend money on something do you always replace the money WITH interest?)

“your life is great”

Since: Aug 09

you poop in clean water

#38 Nov 9, 2012
Robert wrote:
<quoted text> It is interesting but not give the they debt picture. We don't really borrow from china or any of those other countries as such, they invest in our bonds and we pay interest on the investments, and the people who buy the bonds roll them over depending on the length of the security.
The money we owe our self is money that you and your employer paid into social security which is supposed to be in the trust fund to pay benefits that were not needed at the time. With the bonds people bought as long as they think america is a safe place to put their money we just keep paying the interest but the money we owe ourselves we have to pay back as the baby boomer ages.
• Medicare:$24.8 trillion. combined with the addition of a prescription drug benefit in 2006 and rising health care costs generally — has created an unfunded liability of nearly $25 trillion over the lifetime of those now in the program as workers and retirees.
• Social Security:$21.4 trillion. Social Security's long-term shortfall grows about $1.2 trillion annually — a sign of an imbalance between the number of young workers and older beneficiaries, according to the Social Security trustees' annual reports. The $21.4 trillion unfunded liability represents the difference between all taxes that will be paid and all benefits received over the lifetimes of everyone in the system now — workers and beneficiaries alike.
Secretary of the Treasury can only pay for Social Security and Medicare out of the Trust Funds, and if the Trust Funds are depleted of cash, the rate of spending out of it will be limited to rate at which the Trust Funds are replenished with tax revenues flowing in under the current tax schedule. Because of this expect congress to almost certainly will reduce the future benefits promised to old people like me. Even if Congress does NOT act before the Trust Funds are depleted, under current law Social Security and Medicare beneficiaries would receive less than the amount of benefits provided to current beneficiaries.
I say this to say that the debt problem is real and you should not let the article dis-wade you of that.
I didn't say the debt problem wasn't real, but I think these two article (when combined) give a clearer picture of what's really going on.
.
for quite some time now people have been saying that 43 cents on the dollar is owed to China, when in reality, it's 8 cents on the dollar.
.
add in that (in theory) the debt that the US has with China could be forgiven based on what China owes the US from decades ago.
Robert

Douglasville, GA

#39 Nov 9, 2012
anneutral wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't say the debt problem wasn't real, but I think these two article (when combined) give a clearer picture of what's really going on.
.
for quite some time now people have been saying that 43 cents on the dollar is owed to China, when in reality, it's 8 cents on the dollar.
.
add in that (in theory) the debt that the US has with China could be forgiven based on what China owes the US from decades ago.
It is 44 cents now and you are right it is not owed to china but we still have to pay it. The only thing we don't have to pay are the benefits which were promised to us for social security and medicare that the government takes away from us in the not that far away future.

If you cared about the debt you would not have elected Obama for another term because he will make it worse not better.

“your life is great”

Since: Aug 09

you poop in clean water

#40 Nov 9, 2012
Robert wrote:
<quoted text>
It is 44 cents now and you are right it is not owed to china but we still have to pay it. The only thing we don't have to pay are the benefits which were promised to us for social security and medicare that the government takes away from us in the not that far away future.
If you cared about the debt you would not have elected Obama for another term because he will make it worse not better.
what makes you think I voted for Obama?
Piggy

Sterling, VA

#41 Nov 9, 2012
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
Yea right! Even if that's true, why are you living on your great uncles's legacy? What have you done?
I served it too. I even spent some time with the 3rd tanks, 3rd Marines, Dong Ha, for a while. My father was 82nd Airborne, Normandy invasion. My great grandfather fought in the cavalry at Gettysburg. Why, I'm a regular Lt. Dan, piss ant.
Liar

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