Who supports universal health care?

WASHINGTON: Before the energy-price crisis, before the mortgage crisis, before the credit crisis and the banking crisis, there was the crisis in health insurance that is in reality a crisis in care. Full Story
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MichaelPDA

United States

#1 Aug 13, 2008
PDA's Donna Smith, along with other PDA single-payer, publicly financed/privately delivered health care activists Mary Nichols-Rhodes of Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio and Norman Solomon, and with Pennsylvania HealthCare4All Executive Director Chuck Pennachio, worked tirelessly in Cleveland and Pittsburgh to get the platform committee to put language in that points directly to a expanded and improved Medicare for all health care platform. They were not naive as to the fight this would be, and we of PDA are happy that we negotiated language changes in the platform (such as "everybody in, nobody out") in a latter part of the platform that mentions health care.

We were glad to have Rep. John Conyers, the sponsor of H.R. 676, the best solution to the health care crisis and a single payer plan with 91 cosponsors, be with us in Pittsburgh. He was pleased with the changes saying the language changes are a huge shift. But the congressman and PDA, along with Physicians for a National Health Program (PNHP), and Marilyn Clement’s Health Care Now (not to be confused with Health Care for America Now which buckles to the insurance company industry), all know that for a truly national plan that both saves money and insures everyone is to be found in the passage of H.R. 676. To that end we work, so that the richest nation in the world can join all the industrialized nations in the world who already know that a publicly financed is the best way to deliver health care to its citizens.

It should be said that Hillary Clinton supports a Massachusetts type plan that keeps the insurance industry in place, and our work with her people to get language changes is not a result of our giving up our single-minded efforts to a single-payer plan. The platform is better through our efforts, but will only be effective if we move Obama (who we all know must be the next president of the United States) and the Hillary camp to work toward a truly national and universal health care solution as both FDR and Harry Truman tried to do over years ago. It is time for our politicians to have the political courage to take on those who put profit ahead of true health care reform.
Red

Uniontown, OH

#2 Aug 13, 2008
If our government can spend $775 million a day financing the Iraq War it can easily provide comprehensive health care coverage for every American citizen.

“At least I'm housebroken.”

Since: Jun 07

Canton, OH

#3 Aug 13, 2008
Only fools support universal health care. If you think health care is expensive now, wait to see how expensive it gets when it is free.
City Worker

Dayton, OH

#4 Aug 13, 2008
The Big Lebowski wrote:
Only fools support universal health care. If you think health care is expensive now, wait to see how expensive it gets when it is free.
Not to mention how long you may have to wait to get it, along with rationing(like that situation with the lady in Oregon).
MichaelPDA

United States

#5 Aug 13, 2008
The Big Lebowski wrote:
Only fools support universal health care. If you think health care is expensive now, wait to see how expensive it gets when it is free.
A single payer health care system would save 350 billion dollars. You should check the facts and see that you are in error. Only fools don't check the facts. Medicare (when it is not be subverted by the moneyed interests that profit from it) operates at about 3% administrative cost. Our present insurance company dominated system operates at about 31% overhead. Who do you think is paying the difference between the two?

The greed of those milking the system in a profit driven system where shareholders take precedent over providing real care for the ill is not only immoral but is stupid economically. You have to quit listening the Right Wing think tanks that are funded by those who profit from the present system and get in the reality based community that puts the public good over the interests of unnecessary corporate profit.

You can get real facts at:

www.pnhp.org
www.healthcare-now.org
www.healhtcare4all.org
www.spanohio.org
MichaelPDA

United States

#6 Aug 13, 2008
Responsibility

South San Francisco, CA

#7 Aug 13, 2008
I have had universal health care and the American way.

The last option sucks and it is sucking all my money out of my bank account - and worse that money sucking does not make it easier to get medical peace of mind.

The health system in this country has to be fixed - for those who pay into the system and even those who do not.

“At least I'm housebroken.”

Since: Jun 07

Canton, OH

#8 Aug 13, 2008
MichaelPDA wrote:
<quoted text>
A single payer health care system would save 350 billion dollars. You should check the facts and see that you are in error. Only fools don't check the facts. Medicare (when it is not be subverted by the moneyed interests that profit from it) operates at about 3% administrative cost. Our present insurance company dominated system operates at about 31% overhead. Who do you think is paying the difference between the two?
The greed of those milking the system in a profit driven system where shareholders take precedent over providing real care for the ill is not only immoral but is stupid economically. You have to quit listening the Right Wing think tanks that are funded by those who profit from the present system and get in the reality based community that puts the public good over the interests of unnecessary corporate profit.
You can get real facts at:
www.pnhp.org
www.healthcare-now.org
www.healhtcare4all.org
www.spanohio.org
What would save even more money is getting government of healthcare. We need less regulations, not more. Please give me one example of anything that government has gotten involved with that they have made more efficient and cheaper. Free markets work better and more efficiently than do those that are regulated.
MichaelPDA

United States

#9 Aug 13, 2008
City Worker wrote:
<quoted text>
Not to mention how long you may have to wait to get it, along with rationing(like that situation with the lady in Oregon).
We get rationing now from the Insurance Industry, and if you do not think so just ask most anyone who cannot get certain tests or procedures because the insurance companies won't cover them.

47 million Americans, a large majority who are working, never get in line for health care. That doesn't happen in all the other industrialized nations in the world. They all have national health care.

No one goes bankrupt in Europe due to medical bills, whereas in the USA 50 of all bankruptcies are due to medical costs, and 75 percent of them have health insurance.

22,000 Americans die every year due to not having access to health care. Seems they may have had to wait too long, eh?

In Canada and nations with national health care, people with pressing health care needs never have to wait. Some may have to wait a few weeks or a couple months for non-pressing procedures, but no one is denied care. Ever try to get certain procedures recommended by your doctor that the insurance industry will not cover? If you don't know about this you should investigate it. That is rationing by the insurance industry in my mind.

In Europe, if doctors say you need a procedure, they do not have to call the insurance company to see it it is covered. They do what is in the best interest of the patient--not the insurance company and the shareholders who demand profit.

Those with preexisting conditions who need health care--well forget about it if you move to another job. They may not cover you. That is rationing. Amd if they do, you will pay out of your %$@ to get some coverage with high co-pays and high deductibles.

You should see how the industry really works before spewing what the moneyed interests have put out there for your consumption and you have swallowed whole without seeing what it is you are ingesting.

H.R. 676. We need it now.

“At least I'm housebroken.”

Since: Jun 07

Canton, OH

#10 Aug 13, 2008
City Worker wrote:
<quoted text>
Not to mention how long you may have to wait to get it, along with rationing(like that situation with the lady in Oregon).
Here is what I find really ironic. Senator Ted Kennedy recently underwent an operation to remove a brain tumor at Duke University. Besides Hillary Clinton, no other politician in America has devoted as much of his political career to trying to get universal healtcare passed.

Using his free and independent judgment, Kennedy chose Dr. Allan Friedman, a surgeon renowned for his experience and expertise in the field of neuro-oncological surgery. No government regulations restricted the Senator in this extremely important personal choice. Facing a life threatening illness, no bureaucrat forced the Senator to chose his surgeon nor hospital from a government “approved” list.

While the successful outcome of Senator Kennedy's operation depended on freedom, Kennedy has devoted his political career to legislating such freedoms out of existence. This, to me, is the ultimate irony.
EASY MONEY

Bangkok, Thailand

#11 Aug 13, 2008
MichaelPDA wrote:
<quoted text>
We get rationing now from the Insurance Industry, and if you do not think so just ask most anyone who cannot get certain tests or procedures because the insurance companies won't cover them.
47 million Americans, a large majority who are working, never get in line for health care. That doesn't happen in all the other industrialized nations in the world. They all have national health care.
No one goes bankrupt in Europe due to medical bills, whereas in the USA 50 of all bankruptcies are due to medical costs, and 75 percent of them have health insurance.
22,000 Americans die every year due to not having access to health care. Seems they may have had to wait too long, eh?
In Canada and nations with national health care, people with pressing health care needs never have to wait. Some may have to wait a few weeks or a couple months for non-pressing procedures, but no one is denied care. Ever try to get certain procedures recommended by your doctor that the insurance industry will not cover? If you don't know about this you should investigate it. That is rationing by the insurance industry in my mind.
In Europe, if doctors say you need a procedure, they do not have to call the insurance company to see it it is covered. They do what is in the best interest of the patient--not the insurance company and the shareholders who demand profit.
Those with preexisting conditions who need health care--well forget about it if you move to another job. They may not cover you. That is rationing. Amd if they do, you will pay out of your %$@ to get some coverage with high co-pays and high deductibles.
You should see how the industry really works before spewing what the moneyed interests have put out there for your consumption and you have swallowed whole without seeing what it is you are ingesting.
H.R. 676. We need it now.
The care of your health is your responsibility not mine. If you can't stay healthy, check out!!

“At least I'm housebroken.”

Since: Jun 07

Canton, OH

#12 Aug 13, 2008
MichaelPDA wrote:
<quoted text>
We get rationing now from the Insurance Industry, and if you do not think so just ask most anyone who cannot get certain tests or procedures because the insurance companies won't cover them.
47 million Americans, a large majority who are working, never get in line for health care. That doesn't happen in all the other industrialized nations in the world. They all have national health care.
No one goes bankrupt in Europe due to medical bills, whereas in the USA 50 of all bankruptcies are due to medical costs, and 75 percent of them have health insurance.
22,000 Americans die every year due to not having access to health care. Seems they may have had to wait too long, eh?
In Canada and nations with national health care, people with pressing health care needs never have to wait. Some may have to wait a few weeks or a couple months for non-pressing procedures, but no one is denied care. Ever try to get certain procedures recommended by your doctor that the insurance industry will not cover? If you don't know about this you should investigate it. That is rationing by the insurance industry in my mind.
In Europe, if doctors say you need a procedure, they do not have to call the insurance company to see it it is covered. They do what is in the best interest of the patient--not the insurance company and the shareholders who demand profit.
Those with preexisting conditions who need health care--well forget about it if you move to another job. They may not cover you. That is rationing. Amd if they do, you will pay out of your %$@ to get some coverage with high co-pays and high deductibles.
You should see how the industry really works before spewing what the moneyed interests have put out there for your consumption and you have swallowed whole without seeing what it is you are ingesting.
H.R. 676. We need it now.
The U.S. government now pays for and controls half of the health care in America. That is up from less than 10 percent forty years ago. Government spending on health care has increased at a rapid rate as its share of health care has increased. Yet those who complain about the total amount of spending on health care in the United States to justify complete government control never discuss how much of the current spending is attributable to or mandated by government programs.

The simple fact is that health care in this country has gotten worse as the government has gotten more involved in the process, not better. Handing the whole system over to the government isn't going to make things better, it will make it worse.
IT_s A Mess

United States

#13 Aug 13, 2008
Our social security system is a MESS!]
Our Medicare and Medicaid system is in a MESS.
Rampant with fraud and over paid doctors and illegals getting "FREE" care. First of all NOTHING is free! If you want to fuke something up - just give it to a politician!
Why should the government insure that we are all insured? Can I get car insurance? I am forced to have that! Can I get home owners insurance? How about FREE gas for my car so I can get to the doctor! Well Hell - how about a nice new car? I need a car to get to the doctor! What good is health care if I can't get to the doctor's office!
And I need the government to buy my food!(food stamps, & WIC)
Wait they already do that! I need help paying for a house - No wait they already do that!(HUD)
I can't wait! I can go to the government for ALL my wants and needs!
Putting this into the politicians' hands is NOT the answer!
Joel Stobart

London, UK

#14 Aug 13, 2008
The Big Lebowski wrote:
Only fools support universal health care. If you think health care is expensive now, wait to see how expensive it gets when it is free.
American healthcare is the most expensive in the world.
e.g. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/07/...

Making it free at the point of need decreases the overall cost per person.

US healthcare costs as a percentage of GDP 15%. UK (free at the point of need) healthcare costs as a percentage of GDP 8%.

- Joel
MichaelPDA

United States

#15 Aug 13, 2008
The Big Lebowski wrote:
<quoted text>
What would save even more money is getting government of healthcare. We need less regulations, not more. Please give me one example of anything that government has gotten involved with that they have made more efficient and cheaper. Free markets work better and more efficiently than do those that are regulated.
1) Well, the military did a pretty efficient job until many of its functions were privatized by Clinton, Rumsfield, and Bush. Can you say Blackwater and Halliburton? Do you know how much they charge to feed a soldier a meal or to wash a load of their clothes. See the movie, Iraq for Sale. It will enlighten you.

2) Social Security, which has been constantly under attack by the right wing since it was implemented, has been the best hedge against poverty for our senior citizens, is one of the most successful govenment programs ever implemented.

3) Medicare, which is under assault by the right wing and is at present being infiltrated by the moneyed interests, is a great example of a successful program.

4) The VA medical system, when not under assault by the right wing to break it, and when its budget isn't cut by supposed military supportes like George Bush, is a good example.

5) How do you like your libraries, if of course you use them?

6) How about your police and fire protection? They are publicly financed systems you know.

7) I kind of like public education and am a product of it. It taught me how to be a critical thinker, but now the right wing profit driven greedy people are working overtime to destroy that too. And No Child Left Behind? An attempt to make children lack critical thinking skills and to kill public education.

8) How do you like the water and sewer system? Probably don't think too much how that is funded and run, do you.

It is a matter of how you view the world. It is only you and your interests? Or do we as a people have shared interests and can work together to solve problems best for everyone. That is what government is all about. If the right wing would quit vilifying it and work to make it work, we'd be better off.

I think that Jesus guy tended to think working together and taking care of one another were good ideas. What do you think?
tuck

Hyattsville, MD

#16 Aug 13, 2008
if it comes to a vote I'll vote for it.
MichaelPDA

United States

#17 Aug 13, 2008
The Big Lebowski wrote:
<quoted text>
The U.S. government now pays for and controls half of the health care in America. That is up from less than 10 percent forty years ago. Government spending on health care has increased at a rapid rate as its share of health care has increased. Yet those who complain about the total amount of spending on health care in the United States to justify complete government control never discuss how much of the current spending is attributable to or mandated by government programs.
The simple fact is that health care in this country has gotten worse as the government has gotten more involved in the process, not better. Handing the whole system over to the government isn't going to make things better, it will make it worse.
Hey, you completely ignored the facts. Maybe you aren't one of the fact based reality people. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

“At least I'm housebroken.”

Since: Jun 07

Canton, OH

#18 Aug 13, 2008
MichaelPDA wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey, you completely ignored the facts. Maybe you aren't one of the fact based reality people. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
Nice ad hominem argument. You get beaten by the facts and logic, so now you switch to personal attacks. Typical Liberal tactics...
MichaelPDA

United States

#19 Aug 13, 2008
The Big Lebowski wrote:
<quoted text>
What would save even more money is getting government of healthcare. We need less regulations, not more. Please give me one example of anything that government has gotten involved with that they have made more efficient and cheaper. Free markets work better and more efficiently than do those that are regulated.
Yeah. Deregulation has done wonders for the mortgage and housing industry, the energy industry, media and telecommunications, trucking, etc, etc ad nauseum. You right wingers are doing a great job of running our country--into the ground anyway.

“At least I'm housebroken.”

Since: Jun 07

Canton, OH

#20 Aug 13, 2008
MichaelPDA wrote:
<quoted text>
1) Well, the military did a pretty efficient job until many of its functions were privatized by Clinton, Rumsfield, and Bush. Can you say Blackwater and Halliburton? Do you know how much they charge to feed a soldier a meal or to wash a load of their clothes. See the movie, Iraq for Sale. It will enlighten you.
2) Social Security, which has been constantly under attack by the right wing since it was implemented, has been the best hedge against poverty for our senior citizens, is one of the most successful govenment programs ever implemented.
3) Medicare, which is under assault by the right wing and is at present being infiltrated by the moneyed interests, is a great example of a successful program.
4) The VA medical system, when not under assault by the right wing to break it, and when its budget isn't cut by supposed military supportes like George Bush, is a good example.
5) How do you like your libraries, if of course you use them?
6) How about your police and fire protection? They are publicly financed systems you know.
7) I kind of like public education and am a product of it. It taught me how to be a critical thinker, but now the right wing profit driven greedy people are working overtime to destroy that too. And No Child Left Behind? An attempt to make children lack critical thinking skills and to kill public education.
8) How do you like the water and sewer system? Probably don't think too much how that is funded and run, do you.
It is a matter of how you view the world. It is only you and your interests? Or do we as a people have shared interests and can work together to solve problems best for everyone. That is what government is all about. If the right wing would quit vilifying it and work to make it work, we'd be better off.
I think that Jesus guy tended to think working together and taking care of one another were good ideas. What do you think?
Thanks for proving my point!

Do we want the government employees who run the troubled Walter Reed Army Medical Center to be in charge of our entire health care system? Or, would you like the people who deliver our mail to also deliver health care services? How would you like the people who run the motor vehicles department, the government education system, foreign intelligence and other government agencies to also run our health care system?

I don't.

I want people that are motivated by profit.

There's absolutely no mystery why our greatest complaints are in the arena of government-delivered services and the fewest in market-delivered services. In the market, there are the ruthless forces of profit, loss and bankruptcy that make producers accountable to us. In the arena of government-delivered services, there's no such accountability. For example, government schools can go for decades delivering low-quality services, and what's the result? The people who manage it earn higher pay. It's nearly impossible to fire the incompetents. And, taxpayers, who support the service, are given higher tax bills.

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