Beware of what Gramm is saying to McCain

MARIE COCCO ''Don't dwell too much on Gramm's silly gaffe about mentally distraught whiners.

[walt]

Interesting.I would like to see a debate on national health care systems but one that includes people from the countries that have national health care. I would like to know how people in these countries actually feel about there health care systems.
All we really get is a right wing interpritation of how those programs are working.

[Bob]

This is an excellent piece. Phil Gramm is the king of deregulation whose policies have given us both Enron, and the mortgage crisis. He will surely be given a position of power in a McCain administration, which has the potential to prove even more destructive than the current one. More deregulation with no oversight so industry can squeeze the last cent of the country.

[Marie]

Phil Gramm is right, it takes 2 quarters of downturn to make a recession, which we haven't had.
We have become a nation of whiners, and we can't afford national healthcare because we don't have the money to keep the entitlement commitments we've already made (social security, medicare, etc.).

How do you like the change we got with the 2006 democratic take over, in regard to the economy? Higher gas prices, financial institutions failing (thanks Chuck Schumer, what an idiot), want more of that? Vote democratic.

[lynn]

Phil Gramm is a moron. Out of touch with anybody who isn't wealthy like his sorry butt. May he come to know someday what struggling is all about.

[dayton]

Marie wrote:

Phil Gramm is right, it takes 2 quarters of downturn to make a recession, which we haven't had.
We have become a nation of whiners, and we can't afford national healthcare because we don't have the money to keep the entitlement commitments we've already made (social security, medicare, etc.).
How do you like the change we got with the 2006 democratic take over, in regard to the economy? Higher gas prices, financial institutions failing (thanks Chuck Schumer, what an idiot), want more of that? Vote democratic.

I will be voting for a Democrat. The reason the financial institutions are failing and gas prices are so high is a direct result of 6 years of Republican rule in the Legislative and Executive branches.

Phil Gramm was recently lobbying the Senate in regards to the Helping Families Save Their Homes in Bankruptcy Act. This bill would have allowed families facing foreclosure to have their mortgages rewritten to save their homes. The bill failed.

Gramm was lobbying for UBS (Swiss Bank), and continues to serve as a vice chairman. He deregistered as a lobbyist this April.

Is McCain's economic policy his own, or are is he pushing the banking industries agenda?

[walt]

Marie wrote:

Phil Gramm is right, it takes 2 quarters of downturn to make a recession, which we haven't had.
We have become a nation of whiners, and we can't afford national healthcare because we don't have the money to keep the entitlement commitments we've already made (social security, medicare, etc.).
How do you like the change we got with the 2006 democratic take over, in regard to the economy? Higher gas prices, financial institutions failing (thanks Chuck Schumer, what an idiot), want more of that? Vote democratic.

Ok if it isn't a recession it is serious trouble. War, inflation, deflated value of the dollar,labor statistics, declines in the stock market and housing, banking problems, and a massive and growing deficit. You tell me where the bright spots are. And please, don't use the '06 elections as an excuse. For very obvious reasons that excuse will not work.

[Great]

Marie wrote:

Phil Gramm is right, it takes 2 quarters of downturn to make a recession, which we haven't had.
We have become a nation of whiners, and we can't afford national healthcare because we don't have the money to keep the entitlement commitments we've already made (social security, medicare, etc.).
How do you like the change we got with the 2006 democratic take over, in regard to the economy? Higher gas prices, financial institutions failing (thanks Chuck Schumer, what an idiot), want more of that? Vote democratic.

Oh sure, well, then what is happening to Wachovia.

How can you possibly blame the Democrats for the mess that Bush and the Republicans have been creating since 2000.

[Stuipd Citizens]

Let's not forget banks closing! Its time to wake up this is real and its gonna get worst.. pretty soon you don't have to worry if you don't have money b/c it won't be able to buy you anything! You better start buying gold and silver..

[Great]

Here's what's really sad about all of this. Workers have been diligently saving into their 401K retirement plans for decades. Their savings left them less money to pay expenses or make purchases. So, they borrowed using their homes as collateral and now that real estate values have declined 15%, many owe more for the homes than their houses are worth.

Now the 401K funds are dwindling and we are economy is faltering. Bernanke says its a mess although Bush remains optimistic. Bush may be drinking the kool aid again or something a little stronger, perhaps.

The point is that if people weren't saving so much to their 401Ks, money they may never recover, they would not have had to borrow so much.

Thank God the Democrats were successful in keeping those greedy Republicans from privtizing our social security and inveting it in the stock market. At least we'll have a little something.

And to those younger people who complain about Social Security tax, please remember, I paid into it since I was 16 years old and I contributed to the support of your grandparents and maybe even grandparents in their retirement. That's how it works even if McCain doesn't know that. You should be proud to make your contribution to society.

[Great]

Okay, I should have proofread. I meant "investing in the stock market" and "support of grandparents and maybe even great-grandparents."

[Bob]

Great wrote:

Here's what's really sad about all of this. Workers have been diligently saving into their 401K retirement plans for decades. Their savings left them less money to pay expenses or make purchases. So, they borrowed using their homes as collateral and now that real estate values have declined 15%, many owe more for the homes than their houses are worth.
Now the 401K funds are dwindling and we are economy is faltering. Bernanke says its a mess although Bush remains optimistic. Bush may be drinking the kool aid again or something a little stronger, perhaps.
The point is that if people weren't saving so much to their 401Ks, money they may never recover, they would not have had to borrow so much.
Thank God the Democrats were successful in keeping those greedy Republicans from privtizing our social security and inveting it in the stock market. At least we'll have a little something.
And to those younger people who complain about Social Security tax, please remember, I paid into it since I was 16 years old and I contributed to the support of your grandparents and maybe even grandparents in their retirement. That's how it works even if McCain doesn't know that. You should be proud to make your contribution to society.

Yes, successful this time, but how about the next? One more reason to fear a McCain presidency, although he won't have a prayer of getting it through congress.

[please]

You seem to be overlooking many fundamental concepts of investing. Anyone who is in or nearing retirement should NOT have the majority of their retirement savings in the kind of volatile investments that are being hit hard recently. And anyone near retirement shouldn't have been borrowing against their home to invest in a retirement plan.

Most reasonable people understand that things don't always go up. Markets have cycles and while this one overall has some specific unusual aspects due mostly to housing factors, overall it's not unusual. Many investors were hit far harder by the dot.com bubble at the end of the last administration and the subsequent bust. Investing "conventional wisdom" has sound rationale behind it, unfortunately too many people ignore it.

Great wrote:

Here's what's really sad about all of this. Workers have been diligently saving into their 401K retirement plans for decades. Their savings left them less money to pay expenses or make purchases. So, they borrowed using their homes as collateral and now that real estate values have declined 15%, many owe more for the homes than their houses are worth.
Now the 401K funds are dwindling and we are economy is faltering. Bernanke says its a mess although Bush remains optimistic. Bush may be drinking the kool aid again or something a little stronger, perhaps.
The point is that if people weren't saving so much to their 401Ks, money they may never recover, they would not have had to borrow so much.
Thank God the Democrats were successful in keeping those greedy Republicans from privtizing our social security and inveting it in the stock market. At least we'll have a little something.
And to those younger people who complain about Social Security tax, please remember, I paid into it since I was 16 years old and I contributed to the support of your grandparents and maybe even grandparents in their retirement. That's how it works even if McCain doesn't know that. You should be proud to make your contribution to society.

[aybeecee]

People have overly simplistic views of reality. The posts here prove it. Government plays a role in the economy, but it doesn't control it. It is possible to have good economic times that are basically unrelated to the government. It is also possible to have bad economic times that are unrelated. Because of the poor economic literacy of the American public, we will continue to lurch from crisis to crisis with little real understanding of what is happening.

Whine all you want, but I look around, and I don't see misery in the streets. Life is good, but it isn't perfect. Stop whining and start learning how to improve your life.

[Great]

please wrote:

You seem to be overlooking many fundamental concepts of investing. Anyone who is in or nearing retirement should NOT have the majority of their retirement savings in the kind of volatile investments that are being hit hard recently. And anyone near retirement shouldn't have been borrowing against their home to invest in a retirement plan.
Most reasonable people understand that things don't always go up. Markets have cycles and while this one overall has some specific unusual aspects due mostly to housing factors, overall it's not unusual. Many investors were hit far harder by the dot.com bubble at the end of the last administration and the subsequent bust. Investing "conventional wisdom" has sound rationale behind it, unfortunately too many people ignore it.
<quoted text>

Well, I'm not sure what is being hit right now and I'm not sure I would have known in advance to move my funds. You assume that everyone is as up on the market as you may be. Most people don't spend their days scouring the financial pages.

Simple people are being hurt. People who just bought into the 401K concept. They may not be financial wizards.

I know my sister lost 60K since January and she is not a risk taker and knows about stocks.

Also, I wasn't saying that people were borrowing money to invest in the stock market (is that even legal), I was saying that instead of using their take home pay for expenses and purchases, they were investing a bigger portion of that pay in the market through their 401Ks.

A lot of people just want security. They don't don't want to play these market games.

[Great]

aybeecee wrote:

People have overly simplistic views of reality. The posts here prove it. Government plays a role in the economy, but it doesn't control it. It is possible to have good economic times that are basically unrelated to the government. It is also possible to have bad economic times that are unrelated. Because of the poor economic literacy of the American public, we will continue to lurch from crisis to crisis with little real understanding of what is happening.
Whine all you want, but I look around, and I don't see misery in the streets. Life is good, but it isn't perfect. Stop whining and start learning how to improve your life.

Do you think that by continuing the chant, you will get your candidate elected. Think again. The only way the Republicans will win this election is by stealing it and that will come as no surprise. That's what they do.

[walt]

please wrote:

You seem to be overlooking many fundamental concepts of investing. Anyone who is in or nearing retirement should NOT have the majority of their retirement savings in the kind of volatile investments that are being hit hard recently. And anyone near retirement shouldn't have been borrowing against their home to invest in a retirement plan.
Most reasonable people understand that things don't always go up. Markets have cycles and while this one overall has some specific unusual aspects due mostly to housing factors, overall it's not unusual. Many investors were hit far harder by the dot.com bubble at the end of the last administration and the subsequent bust. Investing "conventional wisdom" has sound rationale behind it, unfortunately too many people ignore it.
<quoted text>

Actually the downturn is severe. And it is more than the housing problems that caused it. We have a war, a weak dollar, inflation, high unemployment, slow if any growth,
Lots of problems. Yes the dot com bubble was worse but a totally different situation. In it investors did ignore basic rules to inteligent investing. Can't say the same thing applies now. I have a very conservative portfolio based on sound investment principles. Right now it is really hurting. I believe it will come back but for now it is far from what it was a few short months ago.

[RickinPA]

Great wrote:

<quoted text>
Oh sure, well, then what is happening to Wachovia.
How can you possibly blame the Democrats for the mess that Bush and the Republicans have been creating since 2000.

All I know is we elected the Dems largely on the promise they would end the war. Do you want to argue that? Have they done it, BIG NO! THey are either FAILURES, LIERS or BOTH! Wouldn't some of that money being spent on the war be handy right now?

[RickinPA]

Great wrote:

<quoted text>
Well, I'm not sure what is being hit right now and I'm not sure I would have known in advance to move my funds. You assume that everyone is as up on the market as you may be. Most people don't spend their days scouring the financial pages.
Simple people are being hurt. People who just bought into the 401K concept. They may not be financial wizards.
I know my sister lost 60K since January and she is not a risk taker and knows about stocks.
Also, I wasn't saying that people were borrowing money to invest in the stock market (is that even legal), I was saying that instead of using their take home pay for expenses and purchases, they were investing a bigger portion of that pay in the market through their 401Ks.
A lot of people just want security. They don't don't want to play these market games.

I read this as Americans are stupid and we need the govt to protect us from ourselves since the govt is sooo smart and good at providing efficient programs! If you don't want to play the market games don't! Every 401K plan I've ever seen has no risk investment options. It's just the return rate sucks, kind of like the govt gets with social security.

[RickinPA]

Great wrote:

<quoted text>Do you think that by continuing the chant, you will get your candidate elected. Think again. The only way the Republicans will win this election is by stealing it and that will come as no surprise. That's what they do.

It's a good thing no one can call you biased!

[Avis]

Marie wrote:

Phil Gramm is right, it takes 2 quarters of downturn to make a recession, which we haven't had.
We have become a nation of whiners, and we can't afford national healthcare because we don't have the money to keep the entitlement commitments we've already made (social security, medicare, etc.).
.

Conseratives love to complain about the money that goes into Medicare and Social Security - programs that actually HELP people - but never bring up the cost of Bush's dirty wars.

On the radio this morning I heard the current bill for Iraq stands at 750 BILLION dollars. It's expected to cost $1.2 - 1.5 TRILLION before it's over.

And yet Conservatives don't have a problem with their tax dollars being used to HURT people.

Strange.