Promises, Promises; Public Union Pensions NOT Sacrosanct; Mish...

Numerous cities have filed for bankruptcy in recent years, and many more cities are on the brink.

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metwo

Concord, CA

#1 Nov 16, 2013
Do not ask for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee and me.
Thee is the payee. Me is the payor.
How much longer do you think this can really last until thee and me are so ticked off we will both vote for radical change. We do that or the whole system falls apart sooner rather than later. I vote every election. I have reached the point where even Reagan now makes sense even though I have always worked on many Democratic campaigns. Sooner or later radical change will become the norm. It will make no difference whether the candidate standing for what is now considered radical change is a Democrat, Republican, Independent, or declines to state. There are just too many of us that are fed up with the priorities, comments, actions, and lack of change. Quite soon that will result in a national ground swell that abolishes all of this over spending on too many programs and the people in government, elected and employed, who are vested In having these practices continue. The practice of take as much as you can from the government will destroy the true middle class who do not work for the government. The worst mistake JFK ever made and that has now been exploited beyond belief is opening the door to public unions who have driven a truck through it and will ultimately destroy government as we know it. When that happens, and it will if we keep doing like these cities have done, the bell will indeed toll for thee and me.
payee

Vallejo, CA

#2 Nov 16, 2013
do you advocate restructuring existing pensions?
youtoo

Vallejo, CA

#3 Nov 16, 2013
payee wrote:
do you advocate restructuring existing pensions?
Overall yes. But it needs to be done with a scapel, not a shotgun. As they exist now, they can not continue. But, that is only one part of the entire problem. Yes, it is a big part. It is an immediate part needing change. But, you can't throw those at the end or near the end of the working span out in the cold. It does have to be done carefully. My point is that those who benefit from the present situation, are too entrenched. They will pay and fight to the death and the bitter end to see it is continued. Clearly the situation can not continue as is. It is already broken and needs to be fixed. My belief is that there are too people in a position of power to do so, and, too many of them are also too vested either in the system itself or the concept of holding onto power. I am doubtful it can be done in house with the present like minded elected officials, both in the legislature, the administration, the courts, and the union officials. Change will have to come from those people not so directly involved. That will only happen when there is more widespread knowledge and motivation. Sooner or later roads turn to dirt, public buildings crumble, street lights go dark as in Detroit, we can't afford to keep so many in jail as in California, infrastructure can not be paid for as in Pittsburgh, you name it. Sooner or later it all falls apart or thee and me have to pay out more and more and more and more, getting less and less and less in return. It is really a Ponzi scheme. It will fall under it's own financial weight. Not just in California, but throughout the country.
payee

Vallejo, CA

#4 Nov 16, 2013
youtoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Overall yes. But it needs to be done with a scapel, not a shotgun. As they exist now, they can not continue. But, that is only one part of the entire problem. Yes, it is a big part. It is an immediate part needing change. But, you can't throw those at the end or near the end of the working span out in the cold. It does have to be done carefully. My point is that those who benefit from the present situation, are too entrenched. They will pay and fight to the death and the bitter end to see it is continued. Clearly the situation can not continue as is. It is already broken and needs to be fixed. My belief is that there are too people in a position of power to do so, and, too many of them are also too vested either in the system itself or the concept of holding onto power. I am doubtful it can be done in house with the present like minded elected officials, both in the legislature, the administration, the courts, and the union officials. Change will have to come from those people not so directly involved. That will only happen when there is more widespread knowledge and motivation. Sooner or later roads turn to dirt, public buildings crumble, street lights go dark as in Detroit, we can't afford to keep so many in jail as in California, infrastructure can not be paid for as in Pittsburgh, you name it. Sooner or later it all falls apart or thee and me have to pay out more and more and more and more, getting less and less and less in return. It is really a Ponzi scheme. It will fall under it's own financial weight. Not just in California, but throughout the country.
we will fight vigorously to keep what we have. go to hell with your scalpel, in fact, push it upyourass.
Greey Union Thug

Vallejo, CA

#5 Nov 16, 2013
You'll play hell taking back something already given to us.
homie plays dat

San Francisco, CA

#6 Nov 16, 2013
You guys really do not get it, do you. If the whole system collapses, you get NOTHING. NADA. ZILCH. THE BIG ZERO.

You are your own worst enemies and you also appear to view yourselves as separate from AND superior to/better than the rest of us. Dangerous attitude, boys. Don't wait until the powers that be crush you and TAKE it back, be smart and play ball now before it's too late. Negotiate, cooperate, make new friends and allies. You against society is a no-win situation. Since I know you don't buy Obama's BS, bear in mind that things are going to get worse before they get better.

I know you're just going to post some angry, macho response, but I had to say it.
Jim in SF

Vallejo, CA

#7 Nov 16, 2013
@How much longer do you think this can really last until thee and me are so ticked off we will both vote for radical change.

My friend, this evolutionary period in a culture/society does not historically change by vote. If you study history you may come to the conclusion that the arc of civilizations tend to follow a pattern. They change in a rather predictable way.

Looking back at history, the changes like you're talking are not punctuated by "voting'.

I do agree with the basic concept of your post. Changes are inevitable.
Bald Fat Man in a Hula

Vallejo, CA

#8 Nov 16, 2013
The sad truth is sitting right in front of your eyes with the City of Vallejo bankruptcy. No matter who buys elections or who gets the most influence there is only so much money in the general fund. When big money elects incompetent and inept politicians there is only so much in the bank and when that money is gone, no matter what politicians promised, no matter how ethical or unethical keeping those promises might be, the courts will find in favor of balancing the budget.

To our jumper friends, if you do not produce $20 million in new revenue very quickly you will be filing for bankruptcy again.

(t)urd enragement!
JD the Gin Bloom

Vallejo, CA

#9 Nov 16, 2013
Bald Fat Man in a Hula wrote:
The sad truth is sitting right in front of your eyes with the City of Vallejo bankruptcy. No matter who buys elections or who gets the most influence there is only so much money in the general fund. When big money elects incompetent and inept politicians there is only so much in the bank and when that money is gone, no matter what politicians promised, no matter how ethical or unethical keeping those promises might be, the courts will find in favor of balancing the budget.
To our jumper friends, if you do not produce $20 million in new revenue very quickly you will be filing for bankruptcy again.
(t)urd enragement!
Lol, it's not up to the council to produce revenue. You can't cut your way to prosperity either, you understand that? Now that the Gomer obstructionists have been wiped from our dais, things will start to happen. First up, waterfront development after one dollar land sale.
Bald Fat Man in a Hula

Vallejo, CA

#10 Nov 16, 2013
JD the Gin Bloom wrote:
<quoted text>Lol, it's not up to the council to produce revenue. You can't cut your way to prosperity either, you understand that? Now that the Gomer obstructionists have been wiped from our dais, things will start to happen. First up, waterfront development after one dollar land sale.
LOL!
It is obvious simple math is beyond the jumpers and their puppets comprehension. If you have $70 million in the bank and you spend more or make promises to spend more with no new revenue you go bankrupt. The jumpers did in 2008, and based on your comment I fully do not doubt that they will do it again. You did pick a great group of stooges though. Pippie is totally clueless, and Roz has done this before, and as for MalGuapo...his record for the last year = 0.

(t)urd enragement!
JD the Gin Bloom

Vallejo, CA

#12 Nov 16, 2013
We won, you lost. Going to be a loooonngg five years bawling and pounding sand, for you.
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!
JD the Gin Bloom

Vallejo, CA

#13 Nov 16, 2013
Noticed that the 100k CalPers Club posted at VIB left Anthony J. Pearsall off, AGAIN. What's up with that?
Bald Fat Man in a Hula

Vallejo, CA

#14 Nov 16, 2013
Well then with all the sammie and JT drunkenness, here is to bankruptcy again. There is a freight train coming towards your hallow promises...I know Pippie, MalGuapo, and Roz will go poof and leave Jonnie the drunk holding the lies, like Henke,,,

(t)urd enragement!
JD the Gin Bloom

Vallejo, CA

#15 Nov 16, 2013
Bald Fat Man in a Hula wrote:
Well then with all the sammie and JT drunkenness, here is to bankruptcy again. There is a freight train coming towards your hallow promises...I know Pippie, MalGuapo, and Roz will go poof and leave Jonnie the drunk holding the lies, like Henke,,,
(t)urd enragement!
Yes, we got rid of VIB majority. What's so bad about bankruptcy? Last time you cheered, and I got a raise. Hellllo, bankruptcy! It's all good.
Bald Fat Man in a Hula

Vallejo, CA

#16 Nov 16, 2013
JD the Gin Bloom wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, we got rid of VIB majority. What's so bad about bankruptcy? Last time you cheered, and I got a raise. Hellllo, bankruptcy! It's all good.
You fellows owned it in 2008, you wont be able to buy the national press like you do the Times, and will own it even more in 2016....

(t)urd enragement!
magic mike

Vallejo, CA

#17 Nov 16, 2013
we should not be going after retiree pensions. start cutting for new employees only, i think it is disgraceful to attack existing pensions. they are what they are. we have to make money to pay our bills, we cannot cut our way to prosperity, but wouldn't it be nice to go the way of gomes and screw retirees. she just can't get that bitter taste out of her mouth. wonder what her new pals the mayors think about her hubby in the 100k club, and up on dui charges? is she still wearing black?
homie plays dat

San Francisco, CA

#18 Nov 17, 2013
magic mike wrote:
we should not be going after retiree pensions. start cutting for new employees only, i think it is disgraceful to attack existing pensions. they are what they are. we have to make money to pay our bills, we cannot cut our way to prosperity, but wouldn't it be nice to go the way of gomes and screw retirees. she just can't get that bitter taste out of her mouth. wonder what her new pals the mayors think about her hubby in the 100k club, and up on dui charges? is she still wearing black?
It might be necessary to survive economically that we have to cut retiree pensions. Would still probably be better than what the retirees would get in a worse case scenario such as post-bankruptcy II disincorporation. I am totally against screwing with retiree medical, though, especially for professions like police and fire whose employees' bodies often take a beating in the line of duty. I agree about cutting future salaries and medical, though I would never support taking public employee compensation back to the dark ages of the 60's, 70's and 80's. I really believe some of you think that is going to happen, or that it's what people want. It isn't.

That reminds me of another point I think you guys really do not understand, or maybe believe, which is: many members of the public WANT to like you. They do. Kreins knows this. One kindly speech by him and people are falling over themselves with praise. My point is, you are so foolish to be throwing that goodwill away. In the world of the future, you are going to need it.

So go ahead and build Vallejo an economy that can pay you properly. Since you seem to think you can manage it, I'll just wish you luck. You're gonna need that too, when you find out that the powers who backed you when you were just a bunch of ruthless union guys cutting them checks will suddenly stop taking your calls when you do anything that goes against their interests. Oh but they won't pay your salaries either when Vallejo can't, though. Twisting in the wind, you know the phrase?
youtoo

Vallejo, CA

#19 Nov 17, 2013
Greey Union Thug wrote:
You'll play hell taking back something already given to us.
Hell would be more affordable to pay than what the tax payers of this state are faced with. A whole lot of us are close to retirement of our own. We leave CA and all u have left are the ones you hate because they don't work, are on section 8, in jail, on parole, work low income income jobs, have so many kids they don't pay income taxes, are protected by prop. 13 for their homes, and don't buy much anymore because they don't have too. They already have what they need and want. Then what do you do. You can fight like hell all you want. Isn't that what you did when the shipyard was closed and led to what we have today. Go ahead. See if we care. There won't be enough of us middle class tax payers around to pay your bill. It really is a Ponzi scheme, and it is just about mathematically over.
Greedy Union Thug

Vallejo, CA

#20 Nov 17, 2013
youtoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Hell would be more affordable to pay than what the tax payers of this state are faced with. A whole lot of us are close to retirement of our own. We leave CA and all u have left are the ones you hate because they don't work, are on section 8, in jail, on parole, work low income income jobs, have so many kids they don't pay income taxes, are protected by prop. 13 for their homes, and don't buy much anymore because they don't have too. They already have what they need and want. Then what do you do. You can fight like hell all you want. Isn't that what you did when the shipyard was closed and led to what we have today. Go ahead. See if we care. There won't be enough of us middle class tax payers around to pay your bill. It really is a Ponzi scheme, and it is just about mathematically over.
There will always be a need for police and fire, then water and sewer. The basics of a community. We will get paid whether you are here or not.
Bald Fat man in a Hula

Vallejo, CA

#21 Nov 17, 2013
Greedy Union Thug wrote:
<quoted text>There will always be a need for police and fire, then water and sewer. The basics of a community. We will get paid whether you are here or not.
You are your own worst enemy, "there will always be a need for Police and Fire" how true that is. The fact is that Vallejo's payments to CalPers retirement system force us to reduce Police and Fire staff to pay for retirees...and you know of course that such retirees do absolutely nothing for Vallejo in retirement.

(t)urd enragement!

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