Let rich pay to fix deficit, say Americans

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Americans want Congress to bring down a federal budget deficit that many believe is "dangerously out of control" only under two conditions: minimize the pain and make the rich pay.

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Get Real

Columbus, OH

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#1
Dec 12, 2010
 

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Get it straight - the rich are accumulators of wealth, NOT creators of wealth. The idea that lower taxes for the wealthy spurs investment and growth is old, discredited trickle down theory. The proof is that fact that

1) the Bush tax cuts benefited primarily the rich and corporations and we still have a sinking economy,

2) the wealthy and big companies have seen their portfolios and margins grow extensively plus are sitting on over $2 TRILLION in cash reserves, yet employment and growth is horrible.

The GOP may not like the facts and reality, but the narrow minded support of a well-off few at the expense of the rest of America is their real agenda. After all, they want to now add $900 BILLION to the deficit with their support of rich tax cuts and give-away estate taxes. What happened to the GOP mantra of lower deficits?

Middle class and small business earnings have been flat over the past 20 years or even dropping when you consider the debt taken on. How many small businesses have had to beg the bailed out banks for loans or take second mortgages while Wall Street is glutted with taxpayer money? The wealthy have seen their incomes rise 500% over the past 20 years. Let them step up and start paying for the good life the rest of us provide them.
ABC

Reynoldsburg, OH

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#2
Dec 12, 2010
 

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Get Real wrote:
Get it straight - the rich are accumulators of wealth, NOT creators of wealth. The idea that lower taxes for the wealthy spurs investment and growth is old, discredited trickle down theory. The proof is that fact that
1) the Bush tax cuts benefited primarily the rich and corporations and we still have a sinking economy,
2) the wealthy and big companies have seen their portfolios and margins grow extensively plus are sitting on over $2 TRILLION in cash reserves, yet employment and growth is horrible.
The GOP may not like the facts and reality, but the narrow minded support of a well-off few at the expense of the rest of America is their real agenda. After all, they want to now add $900 BILLION to the deficit with their support of rich tax cuts and give-away estate taxes. What happened to the GOP mantra of lower deficits?
Middle class and small business earnings have been flat over the past 20 years or even dropping when you consider the debt taken on. How many small businesses have had to beg the bailed out banks for loans or take second mortgages while Wall Street is glutted with taxpayer money? The wealthy have seen their incomes rise 500% over the past 20 years. Let them step up and start paying for the good life the rest of us provide them.
Don't worry about the negative judgements your very accurate post has accumulated so far.
Dumb Beasts rise early,even on Sundays.
You're getting reaction from systemically ignorant Aggies and their delusional Macher offspring that actually believe that they have something in common with with The Vampire Pirates that have stolen this Nation and its wealth.
Downhill from here

Plain City, OH

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#4
Dec 12, 2010
 

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Get Real wrote:
Get it straight - the rich are accumulators of wealth, NOT creators of wealth. The idea that lower taxes for the wealthy spurs investment and growth is old, discredited trickle down theory. The proof is that fact that
1) the Bush tax cuts benefited primarily the rich and corporations and we still have a sinking economy,
2) the wealthy and big companies have seen their portfolios and margins grow extensively plus are sitting on over $2 TRILLION in cash reserves, yet employment and growth is horrible.
The GOP may not like the facts and reality, but the narrow minded support of a well-off few at the expense of the rest of America is their real agenda. After all, they want to now add $900 BILLION to the deficit with their support of rich tax cuts and give-away estate taxes. What happened to the GOP mantra of lower deficits?
Middle class and small business earnings have been flat over the past 20 years or even dropping when you consider the debt taken on. How many small businesses have had to beg the bailed out banks for loans or take second mortgages while Wall Street is glutted with taxpayer money? The wealthy have seen their incomes rise 500% over the past 20 years. Let them step up and start paying for the good life the rest of us provide them.
Since you are very knowledgeable about such things, perhaps you can tell the rest of us how exactly wealth is created? Or for that matter what wealth is. I'm apprarently confused.
John Henry

Fort Lauderdale, FL

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#5
Dec 12, 2010
 

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Lets start with Congress. Last year they gave thenself 2 pay raises.
Congress along with Obama stopped SS cost of living increase. Again this year no cost of living increase for SS.
Yes there is something wrong with that!!!

“Alius bardus latin laudo”

Since: Nov 08

Jackson St Forest, CA

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#6
Dec 12, 2010
 

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Get Real wrote:
Get it straight - the rich are accumulators of wealth, NOT creators of wealth. The idea that lower taxes for the wealthy spurs investment and growth is old, discredited trickle down theory. The proof is that fact that
1) the Bush tax cuts benefited primarily the rich and corporations and we still have a sinking economy,
2) the wealthy and big companies have seen their portfolios and margins grow extensively plus are sitting on over $2 TRILLION in cash reserves, yet employment and growth is horrible.
The GOP may not like the facts and reality, but the narrow minded support of a well-off few at the expense of the rest of America is their real agenda. After all, they want to now add $900 BILLION to the deficit with their support of rich tax cuts and give-away estate taxes. What happened to the GOP mantra of lower deficits?
Middle class and small business earnings have been flat over the past 20 years or even dropping when you consider the debt taken on. How many small businesses have had to beg the bailed out banks for loans or take second mortgages while Wall Street is glutted with taxpayer money? The wealthy have seen their incomes rise 500% over the past 20 years. Let them step up and start paying for the good life the rest of us provide them.
So, where did the wealth come from that they accumulated?

If what you say is true, no business could ever survive. At the end of the day they would only have the same amount of money they spent on raw materials.

All these wealthy people creating wealth forces the government to print money to stave off inflation of the dollar.

If wealth cannot be created, explain the current money supply. If wealth wasn't created, inflation would of made the dollar worthless.

“Alius bardus latin laudo”

Since: Nov 08

Jackson St Forest, CA

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#7
Dec 12, 2010
 

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Get Real wrote:
Get it straight - the rich are accumulators of wealth, NOT creators of wealth. The idea that lower taxes for the wealthy spurs investment and growth is old, discredited trickle down theory. The proof is that fact that
1) the Bush tax cuts benefited primarily the rich and corporations and we still have a sinking economy,
2) the wealthy and big companies have seen their portfolios and margins grow extensively plus are sitting on over $2 TRILLION in cash reserves, yet employment and growth is horrible.
The GOP may not like the facts and reality, but the narrow minded support of a well-off few at the expense of the rest of America is their real agenda. After all, they want to now add $900 BILLION to the deficit with their support of rich tax cuts and give-away estate taxes. What happened to the GOP mantra of lower deficits?
Middle class and small business earnings have been flat over the past 20 years or even dropping when you consider the debt taken on. How many small businesses have had to beg the bailed out banks for loans or take second mortgages while Wall Street is glutted with taxpayer money? The wealthy have seen their incomes rise 500% over the past 20 years. Let them step up and start paying for the good life the rest of us provide them.
"If wealth wasn't created, inflation would of made the dollar worthless."

Should read:

"If wealth wasn't created, inflation would of made the dollar inaccessible."

And understand, I am not talking about inflation of prices, but the worth of the dollar.
True colors

United States

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#8
Dec 12, 2010
 

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Get Real wrote:
Get it straight - the rich are accumulators of wealth, NOT creators of wealth. The idea that lower taxes for the wealthy spurs investment and growth is old, discredited trickle down theory. The proof is that fact that
1) the Bush tax cuts benefited primarily the rich and corporations and we still have a sinking economy,
2) the wealthy and big companies have seen their portfolios and margins grow extensively plus are sitting on over $2 TRILLION in cash reserves, yet employment and growth is horrible.
The GOP may not like the facts and reality, but the narrow minded support of a well-off few at the expense of the rest of America is their real agenda. After all, they want to now add $900 BILLION to the deficit with their support of rich tax cuts and give-away estate taxes. What happened to the GOP mantra of lower deficits?
Middle class and small business earnings have been flat over the past 20 years or even dropping when you consider the debt taken on. How many small businesses have had to beg the bailed out banks for loans or take second mortgages while Wall Street is glutted with taxpayer money? The wealthy have seen their incomes rise 500% over the past 20 years. Let them step up and start paying for the good life the rest of us provide them.
Althought I understand and do not necessarily disagree with you, there is a point missing from your stance. There is a difference between individual wealth and business wealth. Businesses are going to re-invest when they see an opportunity to increase business, where as individuals are more likely to obtain wealth and hold on to it. A CEO that makes a couple million dollars a year is not going to re-invest their salary to create wealth. Now that same CEO make make business decisions to re-invest company money. These tax breaks that are being debated apply to individual wealth, not business. So, you do have many valid points.

A majority of wealth is created by small business having the opportunity to be created or expanded and right now that is not happening because many of the banks are hoarding money because of fears of forclosures and defaults on other loans.
None of Your Business

Columbus, OH

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#9
Dec 12, 2010
 
I find it unusual that people didn't start complaining about taxing the wealthy earlier. It's obvious that we were losing money, but there isn't a good solution yet, so you can't blame the gov. about cutting spending, since they don't know what to do and I bet you don't either. A very good solution is to cut spending at more than one area since cutting from one area causes more problems than a decrease in several places. This also has some problems as well. If you cut from an area that would affect the people more than you WILL see problems almost immediately. One of the hardest problems of cutting spending is that the areas that is more likely to cause debt is the are the ones that people care about the most. I wish that the Gov. would see what cuts would not affect the people the most. I am a 13 year old kid.(THIS IS NOT A JOKE!)
Time to go

Powell, OH

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#10
Dec 12, 2010
 

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Lib wrote:
The gap between the rich and the poor in America is at record levels now! Everyone making over $75K needs to pay higher taxes!!
$75k is rich to you? Whatever. Basically you are talking about pure re-distribution of wealth since you want to begin confiscation of income for those making $75k or more. Move to a socialist or communist country if that is what you desire.
Electric Wizard

Woodbridge, VA

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#11
Dec 12, 2010
 

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Get Real wrote:
Get it straight - the rich are accumulators of wealth, NOT creators of wealth. The idea that lower taxes for the wealthy spurs investment and growth is old, discredited trickle down theory. The proof is that fact that
1) the Bush tax cuts benefited primarily the rich and corporations and we still have a sinking economy,
2) the wealthy and big companies have seen their portfolios and margins grow extensively plus are sitting on over $2 TRILLION in cash reserves, yet employment and growth is horrible.
The GOP may not like the facts and reality, but the narrow minded support of a well-off few at the expense of the rest of America is their real agenda. After all, they want to now add $900 BILLION to the deficit with their support of rich tax cuts and give-away estate taxes. What happened to the GOP mantra of lower deficits?
Middle class and small business earnings have been flat over the past 20 years or even dropping when you consider the debt taken on. How many small businesses have had to beg the bailed out banks for loans or take second mortgages while Wall Street is glutted with taxpayer money? The wealthy have seen their incomes rise 500% over the past 20 years. Let them step up and start paying for the good life the rest of us provide them.
Interesting post

“Alius bardus latin laudo”

Since: Nov 08

Jackson St Forest, CA

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#12
Dec 12, 2010
 

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True colors wrote:
<quoted text>
Althought I understand and do not necessarily disagree with you, there is a point missing from your stance. There is a difference between individual wealth and business wealth. Businesses are going to re-invest when they see an opportunity to increase business, where as individuals are more likely to obtain wealth and hold on to it. A CEO that makes a couple million dollars a year is not going to re-invest their salary to create wealth. Now that same CEO make make business decisions to re-invest company money. These tax breaks that are being debated apply to individual wealth, not business. So, you do have many valid points.
A majority of wealth is created by small business having the opportunity to be created or expanded and right now that is not happening because many of the banks are hoarding money because of fears of forclosures and defaults on other loans.
Bingo! You hit the nail on the head, mostly.

Rich individuals may not spend money on their business. However you said that one of the reasons some businesses aren't expanding is because of a lack of funding.

Why do banks loan money? To make money.

Many small business loans are not made by banks. They are made by individuals with money. A "rich" person doesn't just hoard money. If you stuff it under a mattress it loses value. RIch people make money by investing it.

How does a rich person invest their money? Stocks, bonds and business loans. All three of those methods perform one function, giving money to businesses to spend. The businesses spend that money and make more. The investors then get a share.

Stocks and bonds used by "rich" people to "hoard" their money is a way to fund a business.

Stocks do well, then peoples pensions do well. "Working class" people count on rich people "hoarding" their money in investments. If rich people don't "hoard" their money in investments, "working class" people have no money to retire with and businesses don't have funding.

All businesses big and small count and thrive on the rich person investing their money. That is money that isn't counted in velocity calculations. Yet if these investments aren't made, businesses don't survive.

Rich people invest, those investments provide capitol for business big and small, and many other vehicles for investments provide collateral for other loans to be made.
True colors

United States

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#13
Dec 12, 2010
 

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Why not get real wrote:
<quoted text>
Bingo! You hit the nail on the head, mostly.
Rich individuals may not spend money on their business. However you said that one of the reasons some businesses aren't expanding is because of a lack of funding.
Why do banks loan money? To make money.
Many small business loans are not made by banks. They are made by individuals with money. A "rich" person doesn't just hoard money. If you stuff it under a mattress it loses value. RIch people make money by investing it.
How does a rich person invest their money? Stocks, bonds and business loans. All three of those methods perform one function, giving money to businesses to spend. The businesses spend that money and make more. The investors then get a share.
Stocks and bonds used by "rich" people to "hoard" their money is a way to fund a business.
Stocks do well, then peoples pensions do well. "Working class" people count on rich people "hoarding" their money in investments. If rich people don't "hoard" their money in investments, "working class" people have no money to retire with and businesses don't have funding.
All businesses big and small count and thrive on the rich person investing their money. That is money that isn't counted in velocity calculations. Yet if these investments aren't made, businesses don't survive.
Rich people invest, those investments provide capitol for business big and small, and many other vehicles for investments provide collateral for other loans to be made.
I understand what you are saying, but the banks are not lending. Why, because the wealthy are not putting money into bonds, they are putting it into the market which ties up their money. If you listen to the wealthy, right now is one of the best times to buy stocks because they are low. If you are looking for long term investment that is. These tax cuts, for individuals, will not increase capitial in the market for small business. Many banks and businesses are nervous about the money issues in the government and in Europe, so they are holding on to their money.

The deficit needs to be reduced so that people are not worried about it. Once there is more trust in the government balancing the budget, then you will see more capitial freed up.

Trusting the economic situation will go a lot farther than tax cuts to get money being spent. Look at the 90's, very high taxes but people were fine with the economy and not worried. Money was flowing and the wealthy made their money.

“Alius bardus latin laudo”

Since: Nov 08

Jackson St Forest, CA

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#14
Dec 12, 2010
 

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True colors wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand what you are saying, but the banks are not lending. Why, because the wealthy are not putting money into bonds, they are putting it into the market which ties up their money. If you listen to the wealthy, right now is one of the best times to buy stocks because they are low. If you are looking for long term investment that is. These tax cuts, for individuals, will not increase capitial in the market for small business. Many banks and businesses are nervous about the money issues in the government and in Europe, so they are holding on to their money.
The deficit needs to be reduced so that people are not worried about it. Once there is more trust in the government balancing the budget, then you will see more capitial freed up.
Trusting the economic situation will go a lot farther than tax cuts to get money being spent. Look at the 90's, very high taxes but people were fine with the economy and not worried. Money was flowing and the wealthy made their money.
WHere does the money go when it is put into stocks?

The company you are investing in.

This gives the company more money to use for their business. It is a method of "loaning" money to the business.

I think that the deficit does need to be addressed. The question is how. Even if you tax everyone that makes over $250k a year, it won't be enough to pay off the deficit.

Spending must be addressed. If we reduce spending more people will be effected than just the rich.

It isn't a problem that you can just let the "rich" take care of.
Barbara

Princeton, MA

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#15
Dec 12, 2010
 

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John Henry wrote:
Lets start with Congress. Last year they gave thenself 2 pay raises.
Congress along with Obama stopped SS cost of living increase. Again this year no cost of living increase for SS.
Yes there is something wrong with that!!!
Obama did not stop the SS COLA. Either you need to educate yourself or stop lying. In either case, try posting the truth.
True colors

United States

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#16
Dec 12, 2010
 
Why not get real wrote:
<quoted text>
WHere does the money go when it is put into stocks?
The company you are investing in.
This gives the company more money to use for their business. It is a method of "loaning" money to the business.
I think that the deficit does need to be addressed. The question is how. Even if you tax everyone that makes over $250k a year, it won't be enough to pay off the deficit.
Spending must be addressed. If we reduce spending more people will be effected than just the rich.
It isn't a problem that you can just let the "rich" take care of.
Don't get me wrong, I do not think the solution is only taxing the rich. Spending has to be reduced. We need to evaluate how we as a society/government value things and what we are going to do to make real changes. But, I do not agree with this idea that allowing the bush tax cuts to expire for the wealthy is going to cripple the economic recovery.
Blue_Ha_Ha

Maumee, OH

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#18
Dec 12, 2010
 

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OK, George Soros, Bill Gates, Ted Turner, Warren Buffet, Jay Rockefeller, Teresa Heinz Kerry, all the Hollywood crowd and the rest of you filthy rich Democrats step right up and pay off the deficit for us, OK?
Exiled

Columbus, OH

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#19
Dec 12, 2010
 

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,,,,cuts in spending need to be made,,,,,,somethings wrong,,,,,you got about 64 million people who have not been making any money,,,,,,,out of 300 million population,,,,,,how many work,,,,,?,,,,the whole 300 million people do not have jobs,,,,,so you have a 1/2 to 1/3 of your population, that are not working or paying taxes,,,especialy with 20 million illegal aliens,,,,,
Exiled

Columbus, OH

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#20
Dec 12, 2010
 
,,,,,the rich pay plenty of taxes,,,,
Arizona Mild Man

Phoenix, AZ

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#21
Dec 12, 2010
 

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Time to go wrote:
<quoted text>
$75k is rich to you? Whatever. Basically you are talking about pure re-distribution of wealth since you want to begin confiscation of income for those making $75k or more. Move to a socialist or communist country if that is what you desire.
I find it hard to believe you asked this question. How much do you earn a year? The average is under 40K a year. If you are making 75 K per year, then you probably cab afford so much more income tax expense.
Michael

Marysville, OH

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#22
Dec 12, 2010
 

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Let's see how you feel if you worked your tail off for ten years to make six figures and have some loser come along and tell you to pay 40% federal taxes for the betterment of society along with a government that can't put away the credit card. I know what y'all would say ... stuff it ...

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