Pen Argyl Couple On Snowmobiles Missi...

Pen Argyl Couple On Snowmobiles Missing In Main: Clifford and D...

There are 33 comments on the The Morning Call story from Mar 23, 2009, titled Pen Argyl Couple On Snowmobiles Missing In Main: Clifford and D.... In it, The Morning Call reports that:

The Maine Warden Service says it's searching for a couple from Pennsylvania who haven't been seen since going snowmobiling four days ago in the Moosehead Lake area.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Morning Call.

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Amused Crack-er

Bethlehem, PA

#29 Mar 23, 2009
OMG!!! This is VERY sad to hear! I was hoping that they were alive and found, but apparently not. The only thing I can say is that they were at least doing something they enjoyed.
DEEPEST condolences to family and friends of this couple.
Amused Crack-er

Bethlehem, PA

#30 Mar 23, 2009
MeandU wrote:
this does sound like the Hotel could be at fault. I know both these people from High School very well they are wonderful people pleaSE PRAY FOR THEM.
I will HIGHLY disagree that the hotel could be at fault. The hotel did not make them go snowmobiling and it is NOT the hotel's responsibility to keep tabs on their guests.
Hindsight

United States

#31 Mar 23, 2009
I understand your point but if the maid finds the bed not used the next day? And for the next three days?

It is true that it is not the hotel's fault they died. They were dead within hours if they fell into the icy waters. A true horror.

But the hotel, knowing their guests are up there for snowmobiling, could have become more proactive if, in fact, they were not in initiating either a rescue or recovery operation.

What if they were injured and stuck out in the woods? I think I'd want my hotelier to be doing more than charging my card.
Wondering out loud

United States

#32 Mar 23, 2009
Hindsight wrote:
I understand your point but if the maid finds the bed not used the next day? And for the next three days?
It is true that it is not the hotel's fault they died. They were dead within hours if they fell into the icy waters. A true horror.
But the hotel, knowing their guests are up there for snowmobiling, could have become more proactive if, in fact, they were not in initiating either a rescue or recovery operation.
What if they were injured and stuck out in the woods? I think I'd want my hotelier to be doing more than charging my card.
Sounds to me like you're one of them "ambulance chaser lawer types looking to make a few dollars by sueing anybody for this very tragic accident. Your words are appalling and your timing is even worse. Shame on you... blame thrower.

Since: Mar 07

AOL

#33 Mar 23, 2009
Hindsight wrote:
I understand your point but if the maid finds the bed not used the next day? And for the next three days?
It is true that it is not the hotel's fault they died. They were dead within hours if they fell into the icy waters. A true horror.
But the hotel, knowing their guests are up there for snowmobiling, could have become more proactive if, in fact, they were not in initiating either a rescue or recovery operation.
What if they were injured and stuck out in the woods? I think I'd want my hotelier to be doing more than charging my card.
Unless they had a "do not disturb" sign on the door then the maids wouldn't bother. It's not uncommon for the maids to not enter a room for 2 days at the request of the guest(s). Though we did that once for 2 days & they actually called our room to see if everything was ok, we had forgotten to change the sign on the doorhandle. This was at a Marriott, some hotels are different. What weirded me out is the family members didn't know they hadn't returned yet, it was the co -workers who knew first??? Doesn't their family get in touch with them?
Maine Man

Auburn, ME

#35 Mar 24, 2009
I just want to extend my condolences to the friends and family of this couple. They seem like really good people. It's been a mild March here in Northern Maine, with the snow pack doing some considerable melting. Though I don't snowmobile anymore,I practically lived on one as a kid, right into my mid 20's. I have to say I have always been very leery of traveling across lakes. Even in the dead of winter, there are spring holes where the ice is very thin. When you are out in the wilderness, there is no one there to help you, you're on your own.

I believe these are the seventh and eighth deaths of snowmobilers in Maine this season. A 52 year old man that I knew as a kid died this season when he was snowmobiling on a lake and somehow went on shore and struck a camp. All are tragedies for the people involved and those left behind.

Anyway, I just wanted to extend my condolences to families, friends and all left behind.

God Bless....
Hindsight

Jamison, PA

#37 Mar 24, 2009
Wondering out loud wrote:
<quoted text>Sounds to me like you're one of them "ambulance chaser lawer types looking to make a few dollars by sueing anybody for this very tragic accident. Your words are appalling and your timing is even worse. Shame on you... blame thrower.
I don't know what you found so appalling or shameful. I don't blame the hotel for the deaths. It was just a tragic accident.

But as I said, if the hotel hadn't made a report (and we don't know that they didn't) then maybe they should have. If you operate a hotel catering to guests engaging in a potentially dangerous activity in an unfamiliar location, I would hope they have a way of keeping track of their guests.
The hotel could have reported it but even in this case I'm not sure the police would have acted.

If these people would have benefited from a rescue operation, they could have expired long before help arrived.

As for a lawsuit, I just cannot see how the hotel would be at fault. But legal responsibility is not the same thing as moral responsibility. If the hotel doesn't have a policy for this kind of situation, I'll bet they will in the future. And in some future incident, maybe the people could be saved.

I was in a snowmobile accident once. Not pretty. And I didn't get up and just shake it off. I know I couldn't have walked ten miles to the nearest road. I have already told desk clerks that I'm going out for a day hike, leaving my key, knowing that something can happen while I'm out there. Maybe I'm just overly cautious.
Maine Man

Auburn, ME

#38 Mar 24, 2009
Whether the motel reported them missing or not is irrelevant in this case because, when you're in water that cold, you've got 20 minutes - half an hour tops before the cold zaps your strength and you go under.
Wondering out loud

United States

#40 Mar 24, 2009
Hindsight wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know what you found so appalling or shameful. I don't blame the hotel for the deaths. It was just a tragic accident.
But as I said, if the hotel hadn't made a report (and we don't know that they didn't) then maybe they should have. If you operate a hotel catering to guests engaging in a potentially dangerous activity in an unfamiliar location, I would hope they have a way of keeping track of their guests.
The hotel could have reported it but even in this case I'm not sure the police would have acted.
If these people would have benefited from a rescue operation, they could have expired long before help arrived.
As for a lawsuit, I just cannot see how the hotel would be at fault. But legal responsibility is not the same thing as moral responsibility. If the hotel doesn't have a policy for this kind of situation, I'll bet they will in the future. And in some future incident, maybe the people could be saved.
I was in a snowmobile accident once. Not pretty. And I didn't get up and just shake it off. I know I couldn't have walked ten miles to the nearest road. I have already told desk clerks that I'm going out for a day hike, leaving my key, knowing that something can happen while I'm out there. Maybe I'm just overly cautious.
OK "Hindsight", thanks for clearing that up. I see your point. Sorry for thinking that of you, but it seems like everyone today is looking for the "easy buck". Oh, and sorry for that "blame thrower" thing I called you.
Professor Chaos

United States

#41 Mar 25, 2009
Maine Man wrote:
Whether the motel reported them missing or not is irrelevant in this case because, when you're in water that cold, you've got 20 minutes - half an hour tops before the cold zaps your strength and you go under.
MM, our local news has reported that there were thin ice warnings posted in the area where they perished. Can you confirm this? Is this something (reported ice conditions) that is readlily available in your area?
Maine Man

Holden, ME

#42 Mar 25, 2009
I don't know if there were signs warning of thin ice in the area, but from my understanding, they came upon open water, which is very easy to do after dark.
Professor Chaos

United States

#43 Mar 25, 2009
Maine Man wrote:
I don't know if there were signs warning of thin ice in the area, but from my understanding, they came upon open water, which is very easy to do after dark.
Yikes! I used to do a lot of winter camping and did actually fall through thin ice on a couple of occasions. I managed to get myself out (pretty damned quickly...for me it was the ultimate in motivation) and got my clothes changed without incident. I would almost have to think they fell through too far from shore to make it out before they became exhausted. RIP folks.
Maine Man

Lewiston, ME

#44 Mar 25, 2009
I believe they went into an outlet which was open water, where Moosehead empties into a river. Moosehead lake is a large lake, roughly 50 miles long so I imagine it's a pretty good sized river.

That along with the fact that they were probably wearing snowmobile jackets, pants and boots, all of which would weigh you down considerably when wet, makes for an almost impossible task of getting out on your own.

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