Wolf hunting: for or against?

Nov 8, 2012 Full story: WLUC-TV Negaunee 41

The Natural Resources, Environment, and Great Lakes Committee passed Senate Bill 1350, removing wolves from the protected non-game animal list in Michigan, a stepping stone toward a wolf hunting season Read more: Local , Politics , Environment , Outdoors , Tourism , Sports , Legal , Hunting , Wolf , Wolves , Season , Senate , Bill 1350 , Passes , ... (more)

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Norm Mackey

San Francisco, CA

#1 Nov 9, 2012
Note: The bill is not the same as HB5384, which states (b) "The sound scientific management of gray wolf populations in this state is necessary, including the use of hunting as a management tool, to minimize human and gray wolf encounters and to prevent gray wolves from threatening or harming humans, livestock, and pets."
Instead it reads:
"(b)The sound management of wolf populations in this state is necessary, including the use of hunting as a management tool, to minimize negative human and wolf encounters and to prevent wolves from threatening or harming humans, livestock, and pets."
Senator Casperson isn't going to allow any lawsuit over whether the scientific facts HE determines make any sense according to Proposal G (1996)!
Norm Mackey

San Francisco, CA

#2 Nov 9, 2012
Note: The bill is not the same as the hous version HB5384, which states (b) "The sound scientific management of gray wolf populations in this state is necessary, including the use of hunting as a management tool, to minimize human and gray wolf encounters and to prevent gray wolves from threatening or harming humans, livestock, and pets."

Instead it reads:
"(b)The sound management of wolf populations in this state is necessary, including the use of hunting as a management tool, to minimize negative human and wolf encounters and to prevent wolves from threatening or harming humans, livestock, and pets."

Senator Casperson isn't going to allow any lawsuit over whether the scientific facts HE determines make any sense according to Proposal G (1996)!
Norm Mackey

San Francisco, CA

#3 Dec 8, 2012
Please see the pitfall, the cliff this wolf hunt drives off. Remove two wolves from a pack of 10 and a new pack of 2 may form next to the pack of 8, or two wolves from the pack may decide that new next door space is room enough for them to start a new pack with friendly closely-related neighbors. You can at least double the number of pups born in in a pack’s territory, just reduce their number by 2!

Look at the math, or have somebody look at the math – know how a pure buck season works on deer? Cranks up the reproduction rate and produces surplus deer. so many you have to soon add a doe season to protect crops or what the deer eat.

Sorry to shout: This is immensely worse than a pure buck season on wolves!!! For wolves every wolf in their pack is a buck, except two refractory ones you can’t get rid of – removing the breeding pair just turns other wolves into them. Plus, every two wolves removed can allow a new pack and turns two other wolves from "bucks" to breeding "does"!!!

These kind of “does” have a lot of “fawns”. Half a wolf litter of wolf pups each. Many or most wolf pups die by next litter’s birth, but as long as they live they eat. They eat much. If growing a single wolf pup to full size does not take much more food than a hunted wolf replaced, they are much much more efficient growing than dogs, I’m no expert on that.

But one thing I do know (caveman biologist here): it assures that any wolf control on their own population is broken. They could control their own numbers. If their packs grew enough that the litter’s survivors only replaced losses they would control their own numbers, there would not be enough breeding wolves. Every time a pack gets larger by two – they remove territory that would mean two wolf “does” could have a breeding pack. They run, not their own doe season, but again, something with a much stronger effect!

Does this control their numbers? Never been tested but it will better than the sport ultra-buck season on wolves will. They control their numbers by having packs and territories. You only have to damage that a little to have many more smaller packs and breeding wolves and pups. And this is very very important: it greatly increases the pressure on the deer population exactly when both fawns and wolf pups are growing up.

Yes, deer are evolved to produce enough fawns to more than compensate for normal predation. But not enough to have people run the wolf reproduction rate up towards a litter per pair! You want all the fawns to be fed to wolf pups, and still half the pups starve?
scottbeno

Saint Paul, MN

#4 Jan 15, 2013
100% in favor of wolf hunting!
Bucknut51

Fredericksburg, VA

#5 Jan 26, 2013
scottbeno wrote:
100% in favor of wolf hunting!
I AGREE 100% of wolf hunting!
Irene garafolo

Los Angeles, CA

#6 Feb 4, 2013
Absolutely against it..... The comunities they form the intelligence and beauty of these majestic creatures that share the planet with us, it is a disgrace,a real shame no one ttaught these hunters, that jesus came to die for us to teach us to have respect for all forms of life, all creatures, saint francis of assosi called tje wolf pup brother wolf. Sciemtis..... They found no reazon why to exterminating, only cold blooded hunters wanto because they love to kill.... So did the romans in the colisium where animals where torn to sreads for amusement...whem you like to see blood amd pain... You are mentally sick,leave wolfs alone....god created them and their families too. May god forgive you for causing so much pain in the few years god give you in this planet.

“TUEBOR”

Since: Jul 11

Michigan

#7 Mar 17, 2013
There are hardly any wolves left and yet these fat drunken hillbillies can't stand not being allowed to legally shoot them to compensate for their own feelings of inadequacy. I own a farm and I would much rather see wolves running around on my property than these dimwits in orange hats that think the words "no trespassing" and "no hunting" somehow don't apply to their inbred azzes.

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#8 Jun 7, 2013
FaithUSA wrote:
There are hardly any wolves left and yet these fat drunken hillbillies can't stand not being allowed to legally shoot them to compensate for their own feelings of inadequacy. I own a farm and I would much rather see wolves running around on my property than these dimwits in orange hats that think the words "no trespassing" and "no hunting" somehow don't apply to their inbred azzes.
How many wolves are left in the lower 48?

“TUEBOR”

Since: Jul 11

Michigan

#9 Jun 8, 2013
Aquarius-WY wrote:
<quoted text>
How many wolves are left in the lower 48?
Not enough.

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#10 Jun 8, 2013
FaithUSA wrote:
<quoted text>Not enough.
I see.
You have no idea how many there are but yet say there is not enough.
OK.
How many IS enough?

“TUEBOR”

Since: Jul 11

Michigan

#11 Jun 8, 2013
Aquarius-WY wrote:
<quoted text>
I see.
You have no idea how many there are but yet say there is not enough.
OK.
How many IS enough?
According to US Fish & Wildlife Service, there is 6000-7000 in the lower 48. As I said....not nearly enough.

I would rather see wolves on my land they fat, dopey ass hunters.

“TUEBOR”

Since: Jul 11

Michigan

#12 Jun 8, 2013
**than**

“TUEBOR”

Since: Jul 11

Michigan

#13 Jun 8, 2013

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#14 Jun 9, 2013
FaithUSA wrote:
<quoted text>According to US Fish & Wildlife Service, there is 6000-7000 in the lower 48. As I said....not nearly enough.
I would rather see wolves on my land they fat, dopey ass hunters.
Yes, you said that.
OK. Now we know how many is not enough for you, but you have yet to answer how many IS enough?

“TUEBOR”

Since: Jul 11

Michigan

#15 Jun 9, 2013
Aquarius-WY wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, you said that.
OK. Now we know how many is not enough for you, but you have yet to answer how many IS enough?
I'm thinking 500,000 in the lower 48

"Not so long ago, wolves roamed nearly all of the United States. Between 250,000 and 500,000 wild wolves lived in harmony with Native Americans and the rest of the ecosystem."

http://www.graywolfconservation.com/Wild_Wolv...

What do you think, Tex?

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#16 Jun 10, 2013
FaithUSA wrote:
<quoted text>I'm thinking 500,000 in the lower 48
"Not so long ago, wolves roamed nearly all of the United States. Between 250,000 and 500,000 wild wolves lived in harmony with Native Americans and the rest of the ecosystem."
http://www.graywolfconservation.com/Wild_Wolv...
What do you think, Tex?
Unrealistic.
The habitat, and the prey animals needed to support that kind of population no longer exists, and likely never will again.
Are you willing to tear down your home and return it's footprint back to the wolves?

“TUEBOR”

Since: Jul 11

Michigan

#17 Jun 10, 2013
Aquarius-WY wrote:
<quoted text>
Unrealistic.
The habitat, and the prey animals needed to support that kind of population no longer exists, and likely never will again.
Are you willing to tear down your home and return it's footprint back to the wolves?
There is one million white tail in just Michigan.

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#18 Jun 11, 2013
FaithUSA wrote:
<quoted text>There is one million white tail in just Michigan.
So?
What's your point?
Given the fact that it would take somewhere around 12-15 deer per wolf to feed for a year you still have a LONG way to go to feed a half million of them. After the wolves eat the deer, what do you feed them after that?
The sad truth is that it would be just like the Yellowstone project where after the wolves decimated the Yellowstone elk herd, the wolf population had over grown the area and habitat's ability to support them, so the adolescent wolves took up residence in the surrounding areas (surrounding areas means farms and ranches outside of Yellowstone Park) and started new packs.

Question for you to research:
How many wolves did the US Fish and Wildlife Service agents put down (shoot and kill) in the Greater Yellowstone area betweeen the years 2000 and 2010? because they were predating on privately owned livestock?

Would you think it is more than or less than 1,000 wolves?

And, remember, they did it on your dime.

“TUEBOR”

Since: Jul 11

Michigan

#19 Jun 11, 2013
Aquarius-WY wrote:
<quoted text>
So?
What's your point?
Given the fact that it would take somewhere around 12-15 deer per wolf to feed for a year you still have a LONG way to go to feed a half million of them. After the wolves eat the deer, what do you feed them after that?
The sad truth is that it would be just like the Yellowstone project where after the wolves decimated the Yellowstone elk herd, the wolf population had over grown the area and habitat's ability to support them, so the adolescent wolves took up residence in the surrounding areas (surrounding areas means farms and ranches outside of Yellowstone Park) and started new packs.
Question for you to research:
How many wolves did the US Fish and Wildlife Service agents put down (shoot and kill) in the Greater Yellowstone area betweeen the years 2000 and 2010? because they were predating on privately owned livestock?
Would you think it is more than or less than 1,000 wolves?
And, remember, they did it on your dime.
You just get off on killing for no reason because you are so impotent and powerless in your life and it is the only way to feel like you are in control.
Killing a wolf has no value to a hunter other than just killing for the sake of killing. That makes them pu*sies.
The fact is there aren't enough wolves to be opening hunting on them.
I actually own a fairly large piece of land. It cracks me up to here these douche bag hunters talking like they are men of the wilderness while they live on some sh*tty little building lot somewhere. On my land, I actively disrupt hunting activity and if I find blinds, tree stands or bait piles on my land, I destroy them. Obviously, there is a portion of the brain-dead, over-weight, drunken community of hunters that can't read the words "No Trespassing/No Hunting".

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#20 Jun 12, 2013
FaithUSA wrote:
<quoted text>You just get off on killing for no reason because you are so impotent and powerless in your life and it is the only way to feel like you are in control.
Killing a wolf has no value to a hunter other than just killing for the sake of killing. That makes them pu*sies.
The fact is there aren't enough wolves to be opening hunting on them.
I actually own a fairly large piece of land. It cracks me up to here these douche bag hunters talking like they are men of the wilderness while they live on some sh*tty little building lot somewhere. On my land, I actively disrupt hunting activity and if I find blinds, tree stands or bait piles on my land, I destroy them. Obviously, there is a portion of the brain-dead, over-weight, drunken community of hunters that can't read the words "No Trespassing/No Hunting".
Oh my !
So, you make snap judgements about me, without knowing one damn thing about me, and lay the misdeeds of some pricks who can not respect the rights and lands of others, at MY feet.

I guess you are not interested in discussing this issue in a civil and intellectually honest manner.
My mistake.

Stereotype much?
Go piss down someone elses neck who deserves it.

BTW you arrogant prick. I do not personally hunt wolves and question it's place in the equation.
I also research the isssue a hell of a lot more than you I'm guessing.

Sorry to have disturbed you in your mission.

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