Wind Farm May Violate Endangered Spec...

Wind Farm May Violate Endangered Species Act

There are 5930 comments on the www.heartland.org story from Aug 29, 2009, titled Wind Farm May Violate Endangered Species Act . In it, www.heartland.org reports that:

Environmentalist groups have filed a federal lawsuit to require operators of a proposed West Virginia wind farm to obtain a "takings" permit under the Endangered Species Act before they can begin operations.

According to the Animal Welfare Institute and Mountain Communities for Responsible Energy, the proposed Beech Ridge Energy wind farm in Greenbrier County will disrupt the habitat and likely kill an unacceptable number of endangered Indiana bats.

Beech Ridge Energy received approval for the project from the state Public Service Commission after four years of government study and community opposition. The company has begun clearing brush and building roads to haul turbine parts to the site of the proposed wind farm. Beech Ridge Energy plans to construct 124 turbines—each 390 feet tall—along a 23-mile stretch of mountain ridge tops.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.heartland.org.

PHD

Houston, TX

#5662 Sep 15, 2012
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
Dr Miguel Ferrer studies migrating birds at the Strait of Gibraltar, where many get killed by wind turbines built on the Spanish side, in the Tarifa area. He published a new study which claims to have found a way to site the turbines out of the birds’ flyways.
- Save the Eagles International (STEI) comments on his report:
The problem with these bird/windfarm studies is that they are typically financed by the wind industry, the government, or both. They invariably conclude that wind farms may be built in the habitat of rare birds, or across migration routes. The whole exercise consists in convincing the public that it’s all right, provided each wind turbine is placed carefully, i.e. away from the birds’“flightpaths”.
But in reality, there are no flightpaths. Where birds fly depend on a number of parameters, most of which are variable. Wind strength and direction are one of them, and an important one. It is evident that a bird that flies from A to B in a straight line on a day without wind will not fly along the same straight “flightpath” on a day with side winds. But Dr Ferrer turns a blind eye to this truth.
His study centers on the fact that some turbines kill more birds than others: it’s because they stand across flightpaths, he concludes. But it’s not necessarily so. Studies conducted by Dr Shawn Smallwood in California show for instance that wind turbines that are at the end of a row kill more birds than those inside the row. But if you remove the “killer turbines”, the next ones in the row will become end-of-row turbines, and will kill as many birds. And what of other factors that may throw a bird away from its “flightpath”? What about bursts of wind? What about birds flying at night, migrating songbirds for instance? What about eagles, vultures, and other raptors when they fly in circles? What about birds looking for a suitable place for foraging and/or resting? They don’t follow flightpaths.
STEI thinks it was a mistake to erect wind turbines overlooking the Strait of Gibraltar: it is a crucial bottleneck and stopover point for migrating birds. Thousands get killed every year, far more that what we are told by ornithologists like Ferrer, who make a living doing bird studies paid by the wind industry and their friends in the Andalusia government. Now, thanks to his new study, developers will be given the green light to erect hundreds of additional turbines in the killing fields near Tarifa. They are likely to hire Ferrer to tell them where to site each turbine.
This conflict of interest alone invalidates the study. Yet you may rest assured it will be used by windfarm developers worldwide for erecting wind turbines where they should not be allowed: in rare bird habitats, migration corridors, staging areas and bottlenecks. Politicians and their administrations will be able to wash their hands thanks to Ferrer’s biased study.
Thousands more birds will die each year.
http://savetheeaglesinternational.org/...
News flash all power generating stations are financed by our tax dollars. Wake up we are the government. Talks about being biased take a long look in the mirror. You can't control your own environment and you think you can control a politician? Millions of birds are killed every year by household cats now factor in the other methods our feathered friends are killed. Again if we build windmills for the next twenty years they couldn't catch the killings done by the rest. Get your biased head out of your behind.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#5663 Sep 16, 2012
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
You forgot to add your usual chant, WIND MILLS KILL, at the end of your post.
The PHD virus that once only infected this thread has now spread to the Global Warming Forum.
The only cure is to cut its food supply and starve it until it dies off.
Are you ready to stop feeding it?
PHD

Houston, TX

#5664 Sep 16, 2012
Earthling-1 wrote:
<quoted text>The PHD virus that once only infected this thread has now spread to the Global Warming Forum.
The only cure is to cut its food supply and starve it until it dies off.
Are you ready to stop feeding it?
Don't get nervous the world is about to cross there legs and cut off your food supply. Hay thanks for the compliment I would have never ventured a guess that anyone could compete with your useless babble tainted with hate covered with spam cut and paste. And you should be flogged for thinking that the Raptor would lower herself to your Dumb Assumption you make of your self.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#5665 Oct 17, 2012
Come on, Mitt, WTF!! A statement like this blows it for the "environmental" people and the wildlife enthusiasts out there.

"The administration brought a criminal action against the people drilling up there for oil, this massive new resource we have. And what was the cost? 20 or 25 birds were killed and brought out a migratory bird act to go after them on a criminal basis.

Look, I want to make sure we use our oil, our coal, our gas, our nuclear, our renewables. I believe very much in our renewable capabilities; ethanol, wind, solar will be an important part of our energy mix."

This woud have made a far better impact:
"20 or 25 birds were killed and brought out a migratory bird act to go after them on a criminal basis."

Next paragraph.........
"Look, I want to make sure we use our oil, our coal, our gas, our nuclear, our renewables... to the extent they are reliable AND ecofriendly. But what the Obama administration doesn't tell people about this wind power he pushes so much is that tall structures, such as wind turbines, kill TENS OF MILLIONS of birds every year. And they plow under FOREVER millions of acres to do it.... for an energy source that's intermittant at best.

Look, just Google 'Altamont Pass bird kills.' That's just ONE wind farm and it only represents ONE study, of mainly just ONE species- the Golden Eagle. Now this is a very large bird that's easy to see laying dead out there over thousands of acres. What about the other 800 or so bird species across the continent that are much smaller and never get found after they've been killed on wind farms that span for miles and miles? You see, I care about being energy independant, and I also care about the environment. Wind power isn't as green as President Obama would like everyone to believe. I wonder, why hasn't he brought out the Migratory Bird Act against the Big Wind companies?"
PHD

Houston, TX

#5666 Oct 17, 2012
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
Come on, Mitt, WTF!! A statement like this blows it for the "environmental" people and the wildlife enthusiasts out there.
"The administration brought a criminal action against the people drilling up there for oil, this massive new resource we have. And what was the cost? 20 or 25 birds were killed and brought out a migratory bird act to go after them on a criminal basis.
Look, I want to make sure we use our oil, our coal, our gas, our nuclear, our renewables. I believe very much in our renewable capabilities; ethanol, wind, solar will be an important part of our energy mix."
This woud have made a far better impact:
"20 or 25 birds were killed and brought out a migratory bird act to go after them on a criminal basis."
Next paragraph.........
"Look, I want to make sure we use our oil, our coal, our gas, our nuclear, our renewables... to the extent they are reliable AND ecofriendly. But what the Obama administration doesn't tell people about this wind power he pushes so much is that tall structures, such as wind turbines, kill TENS OF MILLIONS of birds every year. And they plow under FOREVER millions of acres to do it.... for an energy source that's intermittant at best.
Look, just Google 'Altamont Pass bird kills.' That's just ONE wind farm and it only represents ONE study, of mainly just ONE species- the Golden Eagle. Now this is a very large bird that's easy to see laying dead out there over thousands of acres. What about the other 800 or so bird species across the continent that are much smaller and never get found after they've been killed on wind farms that span for miles and miles? You see, I care about being energy independant, and I also care about the environment. Wind power isn't as green as President Obama would like everyone to believe. I wonder, why hasn't he brought out the Migratory Bird Act against the Big Wind companies?"
Wake up raptor the amount of birds killed by wind mills are insignificant. Just so you’re not confused by the word insignificant it would refer to the number not the birds. You should spend more time going after the household cats that kill millions of birds each year. I recently visited a wind farm one of the largest and the director indicated that during the migrating season they found two birds dead under all those wind mills generating clean energy.Hay there more green than nuke,gas, and coal.Oh you left out the mitt that said coal kills. Hold on the mitt uses an etch a sketch. Hay you never mentioned BIG BIRD the mitt wants to kill him.
SpaceBlues

United States

#5667 Oct 17, 2012
PHD wrote:
<quoted text> .. You should spend more time going after the household cats that kill millions of birds each year... Hay you never mentioned BIG BIRD the mitt wants to kill him.
True.
litesong

Everett, WA

#5668 Oct 17, 2012
steenking piddling diddling middling mudling mudslinger dirtling wrote:
The PHD virus.....
The only cure is to cut its food supply and starve it until it dies off.
"steenking piddling diddling middling mudling mudslinger dirtling" gives excuses. "steenking piddling diddling middling mudling mudslinger dirtling" ran out of slimy steenking filthy vile reprobate rooting(& rotting) racist pukey proud pigisms.

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#5669 Oct 17, 2012
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>True.
I'm well aware of what cats do, but this topic isn't about cats.

From first link:
The purpose of this document is to increase public awareness of the potential impacts of towers and other human-made structures by highlighting some of the pertinent literature on the subject. The bibliography focuses primarily on collisions with communication towers, lighted buildings, and (to a lesser degree) windows. No effort has been made to cover collisions with power lines or wind turbines,...
http://library.fws.gov/bird_publications/bird ...

Notice the date-Revised 1998. Also that there have been NO studies on wind turbines as of that date, according to this article.

From second link:
Communication towers – estimates of bird kills are impossible to make because of the lack of data, but totals could easily be over 5 million birds/year, and possibly as many as 50 million. Towers have proliferated in recent years, with an estimated 5000 new towers erected per year during the 1990s, mainly for the cell phone and digital TV industries. Any tall structure will kill birds by collision, and lighted towers attract birds at night. Theoretically cellphone towers are less dangerous than the taller structures, but there is no data either way, and the sheer number of cell phone towers may outweigh any other advantage.
....and there is a real need for more study of the relationship between birds and wind farms.
http://www.sibleyguides.com/conservation/caus ...

From third link:
Millions of migratory birds are killed by striking tall buildings, TV and radio towers, lighthouses, and edifices such as the Perry Monument on Lake Erie.

One September night the 555-foot high Washington Monument took a toll of 576 vireos and warblers between 10:30 P.M. and midnight. A newly erected TV tower on the outskirts of Topeka, Kansas killed 1,090 birds of 61 species over a period of several days. A TV tower at Eau Claire, Wisconsin killed an estimated 20,000 vireos and warblers the night of September 19 -20, 1963.
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll ...

For anyone to make the claim that wind turbines kill fewer birds than communication towers is just ridiculous.
First question: Has this issue been studied yet or not? If so, at how many wind farms and for how many seasons?
Second question: If birds are slamming into lighted communication towers and other tall buildings during their nighttime migrations, how in the world are they missing the wind turbines, which are also lighted, the same height in many cases, and take up even more surface area than a cell tower?
Third question: How many wind turbines exist compared to the number of cell towers?

“Conserve Wildlife Habitat”

Since: Dec 10

SE Michigan

#5670 Oct 17, 2012
PHD wrote:
<quoted text>Wake up raptor the amount of birds killed by wind mills are insignificant. Just so you’re not confused by the word insignificant it would refer to the number not the birds. You should spend more time going after the household cats that kill millions of birds each year. I recently visited a wind farm one of the largest and the director indicated that during the migrating season they found two birds dead under all those wind mills generating clean energy.Hay there more green than nuke,gas, and coal.Oh you left out the mitt that said coal kills. Hold on the mitt uses an etch a sketch. Hay you never mentioned BIG BIRD the mitt wants to kill him.
Tell the bird that's hitting the ground under the turbine that his life is insignificant. Tell me, Doc, how many turbines grace the country at this time? How many will there be in, say, twenty years? Fifty? Do you not see the INCREASING THREAT?
litesong

Everett, WA

#5671 Oct 18, 2012
raptor in michigan wrote:
Tell the bird that's hitting the ground under the turbine that his life is insignificant.
How many insects have you killed just by walking along? Your car has killed thousands of woolly caterpillars as they were crossing the highways. Oh, my. Hard not to pick off birds with your car while driving the highway.
PHD

Houston, TX

#5672 Oct 18, 2012
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm well aware of what cats do, but this topic isn't about cats.
From first link:
The purpose of this document is to increase public awareness of the potential impacts of towers and other human-made structures by highlighting some of the pertinent literature on the subject. The bibliography focuses primarily on collisions with communication towers, lighted buildings, and (to a lesser degree) windows. No effort has been made to cover collisions with power lines or wind turbines,...
http://library.fws.gov/bird_publications/bird ...
Notice the date-Revised 1998. Also that there have been NO studies on wind turbines as of that date, according to this article.
From second link:
Communication towers – estimates of bird kills are impossible to make because of the lack of data, but totals could easily be over 5 million birds/year, and possibly as many as 50 million. Towers have proliferated in recent years, with an estimated 5000 new towers erected per year during the 1990s, mainly for the cell phone and digital TV industries. Any tall structure will kill birds by collision, and lighted towers attract birds at night. Theoretically cellphone towers are less dangerous than the taller structures, but there is no data either way, and the sheer number of cell phone towers may outweigh any other advantage.
....and there is a real need for more study of the relationship between birds and wind farms.
http://www.sibleyguides.com/conservation/caus ...
From third link:
Millions of migratory birds are killed by striking tall buildings, TV and radio towers, lighthouses, and edifices such as the Perry Monument on Lake Erie.
One September night the 555-foot high Washington Monument took a toll of 576 vireos and warblers between 10:30 P.M. and midnight. A newly erected TV tower on the outskirts of Topeka, Kansas killed 1,090 birds of 61 species over a period of several days. A TV tower at Eau Claire, Wisconsin killed an estimated 20,000 vireos and warblers the night of September 19 -20, 1963.
http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll ...
For anyone to make the claim that wind turbines kill fewer birds than communication towers is just ridiculous.
First question: Has this issue been studied yet or not? If so, at how many wind farms and for how many seasons?
Second question: If birds are slamming into lighted communication towers and other tall buildings during their nighttime migrations, how in the world are they missing the wind turbines, which are also lighted, the same height in many cases, and take up even more surface area than a cell tower?
Third question: How many wind turbines exist compared to the number of cell towers?
So you have NO real data just hot air. Try again and get your facts correct.
PHD

Houston, TX

#5673 Oct 18, 2012
litesong wrote:
<quoted text>
How many insects have you killed just by walking along? Your car has killed thousands of woolly caterpillars as they were crossing the highways. Oh, my. Hard not to pick off birds with your car while driving the highway.
True
PHD

Houston, TX

#5674 Oct 18, 2012
Raptor in Michigan wrote:
<quoted text>
Tell the bird that's hitting the ground under the turbine that his life is insignificant. Tell me, Doc, how many turbines grace the country at this time? How many will there be in, say, twenty years? Fifty? Do you not see the INCREASING THREAT?
See the English language seems to confuse you. I said the numbers are insignificant not the birds. How many more cats grace the country at this time and how many will there be in lets say the next year. I would say more than any wind turbine built in the next fifty years.

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#5676 Oct 18, 2012
Blood splattered blades swing death through airways in the name of science. Wind turbines are helicopters that don't move far, just swing around the breeze. Its not enough to cut down a tree with a bird nest, death from above!
PHD

Houston, TX

#5677 Oct 18, 2012
Brian_G wrote:
Blood splattered blades swing death through airways in the name of science. Wind turbines are helicopters that don't move far, just swing around the breeze. Its not enough to cut down a tree with a bird nest, death from above!
No such thing as a free lunch well the ground critters get a free lunch not much but it's free.
SpaceBlues

United States

#5678 Oct 18, 2012
PHD wrote:
<quoted text>No such thing as a free lunch well the ground critters get a free lunch not much but it's free.
Are you kidding with the guy who wants to pump CO2 excessively and endlessly?

He's heartless like the other deniers.

Also, did you mean to agree with "hard not to pick ..?"
PHD

Houston, TX

#5679 Oct 18, 2012
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>Are you kidding with the guy who wants to pump CO2 excessively and endlessly?
He's heartless like the other deniers.
Also, did you mean to agree with "hard not to pick ..?"
Just trying to humor the old boy. We don't need another dirtling out there. CO2, more like he's pumping CO into his atmosphere.
SpaceBlues

United States

#5680 Oct 30, 2012
PHD wrote:
<quoted text>Just trying to humor the old boy. We don't need another dirtling out there. CO2, more like he's pumping CO into his atmosphere.
Good news:

Let It Snow! Solar Panels Can Take It

http://www.newswise.com/articles/let-it-snow-...
PHD

Cibolo, TX

#5681 Oct 31, 2012
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>Good news:
Let It Snow! Solar Panels Can Take It
http://www.newswise.com/articles/let-it-snow-...
And with that strong Northern wind the wind mills will keep on spinning.

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#5682 Oct 31, 2012
PHD wrote:
No such thing as a free lunch well the ground critters get a free lunch not much but it's free.
Back in the good old days, energy production pollution wasn't chopped bird and flying insect byproducts. Do you know what wind turbines do to pollen?

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