Wind Farm May Violate Endangered Species Act

Environmentalist groups have filed a federal lawsuit to require operators of a proposed West Virginia wind farm to obtain a "takings" permit under the Endangered Species Act before they can begin operations. According to the Animal Welfare Institute and Mountain Communities for Responsible Energy, the proposed Beech Ridge Energy wind farm in Greenbrier County will disrupt the habitat and likely kill an unacceptable number of endangered Indiana bats. Beech Ridge Energy received approval for the project from the state Public Service Commission after four years of government study and community opposition. The company has begun clearing brush and building roads to haul turbine parts to the site of the proposed wind farm. Beech Ridge Energy plans to construct 124 turbines—each 390 feet tall—along a 23-mile stretch of mountain ridge tops.

[tina anne]

Why am I not surprised about this. Half of the enviromentalist are demanding that we switch to renewable energy sources like wind and solar and the other half are complaining that it is killing this or hurting that.

[AHA]

We are the endangered species.We are under attack by our own. Save this save that, what about saving the humans. These groups don't have a problem when humans are killed.

[Raptor in Michigan]

We shouldn't have to belong to any "group" to care about the environment. We live on this planet, too and it should be taken care of; not only for animals, but for ourselves, as well. Soemtimes I feel like I'm in a small minority in the fact that I love wildlife and nature and at the same time believe we should be drilling for oil and using nuclear power. Because of my love for the wildlife, I am against building more wind farms because of the mass killings of birds and bats at the giant turbines, not to mention the additional habitat destruction the farms cause. Which, BTW, is the most serious environmental problem we face.

While driving through Kansas the other day there were twelve straight miles of giant turbines we passed along I70. It brought to mind the event that took place at one single cell tower there a few years back. Nearly 10,000 Lapland Longspurs were killed at the tower during one single night after flying into the tower and it's guy wires during a rainy, foggy night. That's just one incident of many with mass killings at tall structures.

Personally, I enjoy the orioles, grosbeaks, tanagers and other birds that come back to my yard every spring. And I want them to return next year. Our quality of life wouldn't be the same without birds.

It drives me nuts when I hear environmentalists promote wind and other so-called clean energy sources. For the most part many of them are just radicals with an agenda. What else drives me nuts is the fact that people making energy decisions, really know nothing about the environment or the long term effects of their decisions.

[AHA]

Raptor in Michigan wrote:

We shouldn't have to belong to any "group" to care about the environment. We live on this planet, too and it should be taken care of; not only for animals, but for ourselves, as well. Soemtimes I feel like I'm in a small minority in the fact that I love wildlife and nature and at the same time believe we should be drilling for oil and using nuclear power. Because of my love for the wildlife, I am against building more wind farms because of the mass killings of birds and bats at the giant turbines, not to mention the additional habitat destruction the farms cause. Which, BTW, is the most serious environmental problem we face.
While driving through Kansas the other day there were twelve straight miles of giant turbines we passed along I70. It brought to mind the event that took place at one single cell tower there a few years back. Nearly 10,000 Lapland Longspurs were killed at the tower during one single night after flying into the tower and it's guy wires during a rainy, foggy night. That's just one incident of many with mass killings at tall structures.
Personally, I enjoy the orioles, grosbeaks, tanagers and other birds that come back to my yard every spring. And I want them to return next year. Our quality of life wouldn't be the same without birds.
It drives me nuts when I hear environmentalists promote wind and other so-called clean energy sources. For the most part many of them are just radicals with an agenda. What else drives me nuts is the fact that people making energy decisions, really know nothing about the environment or the long term effects of their decisions.

For the most part I would agree with the love of animals. I do have a greater love for the Human. Do yourself a favor turn off your power for a few days or stop breathing for a few minutes. Feel Good dosen't it. What is it you or the bird.

[Raptor in Michigan]

AHA wrote:

<quoted text>For the most part I would agree with the love of animals. I do have a greater love for the Human. Do yourself a favor turn off your power for a few days or stop breathing for a few minutes. Feel Good dosen't it. What is it you or the bird.

People like you are the problem in the opposite way the environmenmtal radicals are. This isn't about what or who is more important. God created ALL living things. What makes you think you are so special? How would you like to be the Wood Thrush that slams into a wind turbine as a youngster on your first migration? They value their lives as much as you do yours. I believe ALL creatures can live on this planet together and we need to tread as lightly as possible while still living comfortable lives. Unfortunately, we have the power to do alot of destruction in a short amount of time.

In 1994, 140,000 birds, mostly warblers slammed into the World Trade Towers on a foggy September night during fall migration. It took days for workers to pick up all the corpses. With our leaders knowing this, they want to build an even taller building there now? Or do they not know the massive slaughters happening at tall structures? What is wrong with humans? Are we stupid? Or just plain self-centered?

[AHA]

Raptor in Michigan wrote:

<quoted text>
People like you are the problem in the opposite way the environmenmtal radicals are. This isn't about what or who is more important. God created ALL living things. What makes you think you are so special? How would you like to be the Wood Thrush that slams into a wind turbine as a youngster on your first migration? They value their lives as much as you do yours. I believe ALL creatures can live on this planet together and we need to tread as lightly as possible while still living comfortable lives. Unfortunately, we have the power to do alot of destruction in a short amount of time.
In 1994, 140,000 birds, mostly warblers slammed into the World Trade Towers on a foggy September night during fall migration. It took days for workers to pick up all the corpses. With our leaders knowing this, they want to build an even taller building there now? Or do they not know the massive slaughters happening at tall structures? What is wrong with humans? Are we stupid? Or just plain self-centered?

I would wonder what is more important to you the human or the animal. I think humans were intended to be a priorty over animals. It seems that they were put on earth for human consumption.As God intended. Do animals have souls as by any Christian teachings?Please explain.

[JRS]

Raptor in Michigan wrote:

<quoted text>
People like you are the problem in the opposite way the environmenmtal radicals are. This isn't about what or who is more important. God created ALL living things. What makes you think you are so special? How would you like to be the Wood Thrush that slams into a wind turbine as a youngster on your first migration? They value their lives as much as you do yours. I believe ALL creatures can live on this planet together and we need to tread as lightly as possible while still living comfortable lives. Unfortunately, we have the power to do alot of destruction in a short amount of time.
In 1994, 140,000 birds, mostly warblers slammed into the World Trade Towers on a foggy September night during fall migration. It took days for workers to pick up all the corpses. With our leaders knowing this, they want to build an even taller building there now? Or do they not know the massive slaughters happening at tall structures? What is wrong with humans? Are we stupid? Or just plain self-centered?

"God created ALL living things. What makes you think you are so special?... I believe ALL creatures can live on this planet together"
----------

What makes us so special:

Genesis 9
God's Covenant With Noah
1 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth.

2 The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands.
3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.

==

As for all creatures living together. Watch some videos of lions catching and eating the yet ALIVE victim. The world is a cold cruel place and will never be as you say until Jesus sets up Isaiah 11:
" 6 The wolf will live with the lamb,
the leopard will lie down with the goat,
the calf and the lion and the yearling [a] together;
and a little child will lead them.

7 The cow will feed with the bear,
their young will lie down together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox.

8 The infant will play near the hole of the cobra,
and the young child put his hand into the viper's nest.

9 They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,
for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD
as the waters cover the sea. "

==

You are not Jesus, nor am I, nor anyone else. So that idea is not going to happen.

Those birds we feed in winter out of compassion. Will become a nice plump lunch snatched by a hawk and eaten right before our very eyes.

[Earthling]

AHA wrote:

I think humans were intended to be a priorty over animals. It seems that they were put on earth for human consumption.As God intended. Do animals have souls as by any Christian teachings?Please explain.

Forget you, so called, advanced brain, take away your opposed thumb for a week, strap it to your index finger, then work out how well our species would have done.
If you believe we were, "intended," stop and consider whether you believe in creationism or evolution.
When you arive at the moment of realisation, you'll probably exclaim, "AHA!"

To which god do your refer, you have plenty to choose from?

[AHA]

Earthling wrote:

<quoted text>Forget you, so called, advanced brain, take away your opposed thumb for a week, strap it to your index finger, then work out how well our species would have done.
If you believe we were, "intended," stop and consider whether you believe in creationism or evolution.
When you arive at the moment of realisation, you'll probably exclaim, "AHA!"
To which god do your refer, you have plenty to choose from?

As I said why don't you explain how it works bud. No need to make it personel. I stand by the Human vs animal.

[NobodyYouKnow]

I would suggest that the logical think to dois to investigate if there are any 'sonic warning' possibilities, such as bat distess cries, etc.

The solution may be simple.

[Earthling]

Do human animals have souls and if you believe we do, what sets us apart from any other animal, escept for our opposed thumb?

[AHA]

Earthling wrote:

Do human animals have souls and if you believe we do, what sets us apart from any other animal, escept for our opposed thumb?

As I said why don't you explain how it works bud. No need to make it personel. I stand by the Human vs animal. Human #1

[Earthling]

AHA wrote:

As I said why don't you explain how it works bud. No need to make it personel. I stand by the Human vs animal. Human #1

I asked a simple question twice, you forgot to add a question mark and didn't bother to correct the misspelled, "personal."

Do human animals have souls and if you believe we do, what sets us apart from any other animal, except for our opposed thumb?

[AHA]

Earthling wrote:

<quoted text>I asked a simple question twice, you forgot to add a question mark and didn't bother to correct the misspelled, "personal."
Do human animals have souls and if you believe we do, what sets us apart from any other animal, except for our opposed thumb?

Well which is it Human or animals are you speaking of.Don't be concerned with my spelling you have bigger issues to deal with.A human is a member of a species of bipedal primates in the family Hominidae. Animals are a major group of mostly multicellular, eukaryotic organisms.Now you decide.

[AHA]

Earthling wrote:

<quoted text>I asked a simple question twice, you forgot to add a question mark and didn't bother to correct the misspelled, "personal."
Do human animals have souls and if you believe we do, what sets us apart from any other animal, except for our opposed thumb?

OH it should be animals not animal. Good Day Sir

[Raptor in Michigan]

AHA wrote:

<quoted text>I would wonder what is more important to you the human or the animal. I think humans were intended to be a priorty over animals. It seems that they were put on earth for human consumption.As God intended. Do animals have souls as by any Christian teachings?Please explain.

Again, this topic isn't about what's more important, human or animal. It is about wind power and it's effect on endangered species. There are many sources of power out there. When we find out one of them has very harmful affects we were previously unaware of, then we should determine whether or not that source remains worth tapping into.

I am well aware of the food chain and yes, we eat animals and other animals eat animals. That doesn't bother me. Of course, I don't want to "watch" it, but when a hawk takes a bird from my feeder, I'm okay with it. No species on earth would deplete it's very own food source- except humans if we'r not careful. When rabbit populations decline, foxes switch their diet to rodents.

Birds are a barometer of the environment. They are both predator and prey. They occupy every niche on earth from one pole to the other. If their populations aren't healthy, something is wrong. Do you have a clue what the insect population would be like if it were not for birds? What would spring mornings be like without them? I, personally, don't wish to find out.

I believe we can drill for oil on our own soil- safely- and use nuclear power which to date is the cleanest form of energy we have.

[Raptor in Michigan]

AHA wrote:

<quoted text>As I said why don't you explain how it works bud. No need to make it personel. I stand by the Human vs animal.

I stand by birds and bats vs. wind power. I say the living things take precedence.

[Raptor in Michigan]

NobodyYouKnow wrote:

I would suggest that the logical think to dois to investigate if there are any 'sonic warning' possibilities, such as bat distess cries, etc.
The solution may be simple.

If it were only that simple. The problem is most songbirds migrate at night because of the cooler temperatures and fewer aerial predators. On moonless, rainy or foggy nights, they will slam into tall structures in their flight path because they just don't see them. Cell towers, sky scrapers and now- wind turbines- are extremely deadly. They have tried different color lights and other things, but this can confuse the birds. Just as pilots can get confused as to which way is up during a storm, birds are the same way.

Larger day time migrants like hawks, eagles and cranes also have been sucked into the spinning blades, which can rotate at over 200 mph. And bats have been discovered under wind turbines intact, but upon further examination, were found to have had their lungs explode inside their bodies from the change of air pressure. Not very environmentally friendly, if you ask me.

http://www.flap.org/

http://www.wind-watch.org/

[AHA]

Raptor in Michigan wrote:

<quoted text>
If it were only that simple. The problem is most songbirds migrate at night because of the cooler temperatures and fewer aerial predators. On moonless, rainy or foggy nights, they will slam into tall structures in their flight path because they just don't see them. Cell towers, sky scrapers and now- wind turbines- are extremely deadly. They have tried different color lights and other things, but this can confuse the birds. Just as pilots can get confused as to which way is up during a storm, birds are the same way.
Larger day time migrants like hawks, eagles and cranes also have been sucked into the spinning blades, which can rotate at over 200 mph. And bats have been discovered under wind turbines intact, but upon further examination, were found to have had their lungs explode inside their bodies from the change of air pressure. Not very environmentally friendly, if you ask me.
http://www.flap.org/
http://www.wind-watch.org/

So with your logic we need to stop all motorized vehicles,oh oil drilling we may have another spill that killed a number of birds. Oh yes lets kill all the squirells,rat ,mice,hunters,dogs, cats. they all kill birds. Like I asked try living without power or air and see if you have a better idea than coal,tires,wood. and trash that makes you comfortable in the warm, cold and the dark. All which is destroying the air we and animals need to live.

[Raptor in Michigan]

AHA wrote:

<quoted text>So with your logic we need to stop all motorized vehicles,oh oil drilling we may have another spill that killed a number of birds. Oh yes lets kill all the squirells,rat ,mice,hunters,dogs, cats. they all kill birds. Like I asked try living without power or air and see if you have a better idea than coal,tires,wood. and trash that makes you comfortable in the warm, cold and the dark. All which is destroying the air we and animals need to live.

You are sick and twisted individual! Why do you come out with all that radical crap after I present common knowledge and offer the lesser of the evils as prefered energy sources? Yes, oil can be spilled, but that could be prevented. You can't prevent birds from flying into the turbines. Nuclear is a clean energy source. Why not use more of it?

I have dogs. As a responsible dog owner, I do not let them run loose and kill birds. The other animals you mention are native predators and are part of a healthy ecosystem- with the exception of cats. They are a non-native predator, brought here by humans- therefore all cats are "removed" from my yard- humanely, of course.