OBAMA is the BEST PRESIDENT EVER
Opinion

Hot Springs, SD

#13824 Dec 30, 2013
Bloody Bill Anderson wrote:
Suggest you read "The Ethics of Liberty" by Murray N. Rothbard.
Rothbard pretty well spells out what "liberty" is. Then I suggest you go the the Library of Congress "Chronicling America" website and read the old newspapers from about 1890-1910. You will see that in those days the American "political economy" as it was then called operated according to the principles of what was then called "Liberalism" (no relation to today's definition of liberalism). Those principles were essentially what is today called "libertarian" economics and closely resemble what Rothbard was talking about.
Bill, I have never read that book but will attempt to locate a copy and read it.

I am not a die-hard anything in regards to politics. I can find things in libertarianism that I can agree with but in general they go to the extreme. Same with Capitalism or Socialism. Turned completely loose neither is good. A regulated mixture is what the USA has always been and it works.

I read Ayn Rand's book Atlas Shrugged years ago and thought it pretty silly. A make believe view of the rich and powerful birth right to do what they wished when they wished. It to me was a view of the self-righteous right to wealth and power that came out of Europe thinking.
It amazes me that intelligent people can believe that system is a workable economic system for a society of a country. Yes, I realize that the wealthy would but the vast majority of Americans are not wealthy and are not going to be wealthy.

Today we have Paul Ryan a fervent follower in the past trying to hide it when running for V.P.
If you listened to Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan you could hear that self-righteous right of the very wealthy speaking.
Bloody Bill Anderson

Paducah, KY

#13825 Dec 30, 2013
The Left puts far too much store in Ayn Rand and "Atlas Shrugged." It is a work of fiction and none of the political and economic ideas in it are original. She took the genuinely brilliant social and economic thinking of Ludwig von Mises and Murray N. Rothbard, simplified it to the point of idoicy, and then used it to frame her fictional story.

Very few conservatives have ever read Ayn Rand and most never will, much less use "Atlas Shrugged" as their role model. Further, Ayn Rand's mindset was framed in Czarist Russia (she was a bourgeoise Russian Jew). As a result, "Atlas Shrugged" has little if any relevance to the socio-economic realities of the United States, either at the time it was written or now.

Rothbard's thinking is relevant, however. His thinking is based on the firm foundations of American history and social-economic structure in the decades from the end of the Civil War until about 1912, when the U.S. began diverging from the concepts of personal liberty upon which the nation was founded and our industrial greatness was built.
Guest

Matawan, NJ

#13826 Dec 30, 2013
Bloody Bill Anderson wrote:
The Left puts far too much store in Ayn Rand and "Atlas Shrugged." It is a work of fiction and none of the political and economic ideas in it are original. She took the genuinely brilliant social and economic thinking of Ludwig von Mises and Murray N. Rothbard, simplified it to the point of idoicy, and then used it to frame her fictional story.
Very few conservatives have ever read Ayn Rand and most never will, much less use "Atlas Shrugged" as their role model. Further, Ayn Rand's mindset was framed in Czarist Russia (she was a bourgeoise Russian Jew). As a result, "Atlas Shrugged" has little if any relevance to the socio-economic realities of the United States, either at the time it was written or now.
Rothbard's thinking is relevant, however. His thinking is based on the firm foundations of American history and social-economic structure in the decades from the end of the Civil War until about 1912, when the U.S. began diverging from the concepts of personal liberty upon which the nation was founded and our industrial greatness was built.
Next you'll be telling the lefties there is no Easter Bunny. Or that their unicorns are not real, either.
Opinion

Hot Springs, SD

#13827 Dec 30, 2013
Bloody Bill Anderson wrote:
The Left puts far too much store in Ayn Rand and "Atlas Shrugged." It is a work of fiction and none of the political and economic ideas in it are original. She took the genuinely brilliant social and economic thinking of Ludwig von Mises and Murray N. Rothbard, simplified it to the point of idoicy, and then used it to frame her fictional story.
Very few conservatives have ever read Ayn Rand and most never will, much less use "Atlas Shrugged" as their role model. Further, Ayn Rand's mindset was framed in Czarist Russia (she was a bourgeoise Russian Jew). As a result, "Atlas Shrugged" has little if any relevance to the socio-economic realities of the United States, either at the time it was written or now.
Rothbard's thinking is relevant, however. His thinking is based on the firm foundations of American history and social-economic structure in the decades from the end of the Civil War until about 1912, when the U.S. began diverging from the concepts of personal liberty upon which the nation was founded and our industrial greatness was built.
We might just agree on Ayn Rand work of fiction being a work of fiction believed by idiots. But at the same time there is a formed group of her believers and some pretty well known Republicans have rubbed shoulders with them.

Yet at the same time most conservatives that follow politics are somewhat aware of Ayn Rand and her thinking..

If you was paying attention it was a major issue regarding Republican Mitt Romney's secection for his VP. It was well know that Paul Ryan was a follower of Ayn Rand. The Republican Party as a Party approved Paul Ryan to run with Mitt Romney.

To attempt to play that down is attempting to ignore facts of history that were well known.

How much of her thinking flows in the Republican Party is anyone's guess but flows stronger in the Libertarian ranks.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdes...

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-repo...

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/aug/12/news/...
Bloody Bill Anderson

Paducah, KY

#13828 Dec 30, 2013
Another article about the slow motion crash of Obamacare:

http://www.chron.com/news/texas/article/Medic...

The Supreme Court effectively dealt it a death blow when it ruled that the states do not have to expand Medicare - and 25 states chose not to do so.
Bloody Bill Anderson

Paducah, KY

#13829 Dec 30, 2013
It is rather Machiavellian to say it, but from a Libertarian standpoint it will be much better in the long run if Obamacare goes into a death spiral, crashes, and burns - with all the attendant harm to as many people as possible - because of its own inherent flaws than if it is repealed outright. The more people who are hurt by it and become furious the better. Then, after 2016, after the Republicans have regained control of the Congress and elected a conservative president, they can repeal it and there will be no question that they were putting an inherently bad law out of its misery. By then even the Democrats, if they want to have any political future at all, will be willing to repeal it. It will be another 50 years before another American politician even dares utter the words “National Health Insurance” except to roundly condemn the whole concept.

And there are plenty of ways that Obamacare’s opponents can make it as bad as possible. For instance, small employers can take advantage of its rule that employers with fewer than 50 workers do not have to insure those workers can lay off workers to get under the 50 limit. A business with say 55 workers can lay off 6 of them, get down to 49, and not have to insure them. Larger employers can take advantage of the rule that they do not have to insure part time workers and cut individual workers’ hours to 19 hours per week. Those workers will then either be forced to buy insurance on their own, which they cannot afford, or they will be fined. Many will choose to go without insurance and pay the fine. Their anger will be fueled. In states that expanded Medicaid, low wage workers will be enrolled in it – with consequent increases in the program’s cost. Those workers who do accept Medicaid will soon find its rules and restrictions on what they can earn or own onerous. In states that did not expand Medicaid, the workers will be uninsured and liable to the fine for not having insurance.

And all the time you hammer home the message that their misery is Obama's fault.
Opinion

Hot Springs, SD

#13830 Dec 30, 2013
The Congress has just ended one of the worst and least productive sessions in the history of our country. The people are hurting. They look to Washington for help. Nothing is happening.
The main cause of congressional dysfunction is an extreme right-wing Republican party whose main goal is to protect the wealthy and powerful. Tax break for the rich or large corporations cut programs which protects working families -- Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, affordable housing, etc.
Democrats have tolerated Republican obstructionism for much too long and allowed major legislation to fail for lack of 60 votes. They have failed to bring forth a strong and consistent agenda which addresses the economic crises facing the vast majority of our struggling population, and have not rallied the people in support of that agenda.
We need to change the political dynamics of the nation. We can no longer allow the billionaires and their think tanks or the corporate media to set the agenda. We need to educate, organize and mobilize the working families of our country to stand up for their rights. We need to make government work for all the people, not just the 1 percent.
WEALTH AND INCOME INEQUALITY: A nation will not survive morally or economically when so few have so much, while so many have so little. It is simply not acceptable that the top 1 percent owns 38 percent of the financial wealth of the nation, while the bottom 60 percent owns all of 2.3 percent. We need to establish a progressive tax system which asks the wealthy to start paying their fair share of taxes, and which ends the outrageous loopholes that enable one out of four corporations to pay nothing in federal taxes.
JOBS: We need to make significant investments in our crumbling infrastructure, in energy efficiency and sustainable energy, in early childhood education and in affordable housing.
WAGES: We need to raise the minimum wage to a living wage. from $7.25 an hour to $10.10 an hour.
RETIREMENT SECURITY: At a time when only one in five workers in the private sector have a defined benefit pension plan; half of Americans have less than $10,000 in savings; and two-thirds of seniors rely on Social Security for more than half of their income, we must expand and protect Social Security so that every American can retire with dignity.
WALL STREET: During the financial crisis, huge Wall Street banks received more than $700 billion in financial aid from the Treasury Department and more than $16 trillion from the Federal Reserve because they were "too big to fail." Yet today, the largest banks in this country are much bigger than they were before taxpayers bailed them out. It's time to break up these behemoths so that they cannot cause another recession that could wreck the global economy.
CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM: We are not living in a real democracy when large corporations and a handful of billionaire families can spend unlimited sums of money to elect or defeat candidates. We must expand our efforts to overturn the disastrous Citizens United Supreme Court decision and move this country to public funding of elections.
SOCIAL JUSTICE: we must fight to protect the rights of all Americans.
CIVIL LIBERTIES: the National Security Agency and other intelligence agencies are out of control. We cannot talk about America as a "free country" when the government is collecting information on virtually every phone call we make, when it is intercepting our emails and monitoring the websites we visit.
WAR AND PEACE: With a large deficit and enormous unmet needs, it is absurd that the United States continues to spend almost as much on defense as the rest of the world combined.
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-r...
Opinion

Hot Springs, SD

#13831 Dec 30, 2013
Bloody Bill Anderson wrote:
It is rather Machiavellian to say it, but from a Libertarian standpoint it will be much better in the long run if Obamacare goes into a death spiral, crashes, and burns - with all the attendant harm to as many people as possible - because of its own inherent flaws than if it is repealed outright. The more people who are hurt by it and become furious the better. Then, after 2016, after the Republicans have regained control of the Congress and elected a conservative president, they can repeal it and there will be no question that they were putting an inherently bad law out of its misery. By then even the Democrats, if they want to have any political future at all, will be willing to repeal it. It will be another 50 years before another American politician even dares utter the words “National Health Insurance” except to roundly condemn the whole concept.
And there are plenty of ways that Obamacare’s opponents can make it as bad as possible. For instance, small employers can take advantage of its rule that employers with fewer than 50 workers do not have to insure those workers can lay off workers to get under the 50 limit. A business with say 55 workers can lay off 6 of them, get down to 49, and not have to insure them. Larger employers can take advantage of the rule that they do not have to insure part time workers and cut individual workers’ hours to 19 hours per week. Those workers will then either be forced to buy insurance on their own, which they cannot afford, or they will be fined. Many will choose to go without insurance and pay the fine. Their anger will be fueled. In states that expanded Medicaid, low wage workers will be enrolled in it – with consequent increases in the program’s cost. Those workers who do accept Medicaid will soon find its rules and restrictions on what they can earn or own onerous. In states that did not expand Medicaid, the workers will be uninsured and liable to the fine for not having insurance.
And all the time you hammer home the message that their misery is Obama's fault.
Bill, not everyone lives in Kentucky and has McConnell & Paul for Senators. There is places in this country where people are out to hang Republicans out to dry.

Believe it or not.
Bloody Bill Anderson

Paducah, KY

#13832 Dec 30, 2013
It does not matter if there are "places in this country where people are out to hang Republicans out to dry." There are still enough places like Kentucky, Georgia, Kansas, Texas, all the South, Plains, and rural areas of the Midwest that consistently vote to elect Republicans to the House of Representatives that we can block any Democartic attempt to implement more Socialism.

Democrats are their own worst enemies on the "moral" issues like abortion and, particularly, gay marriage. So long as the Democrats take the liberal stand on those issues that they do, the Christian Right (whose influence in the areas I mentioned is the no. 1 political force) the Democrats will never convince voters in those areas to vote for a Democrat. Just look at all the red on the map when it comes to governors (30) and the House. Democrats control only a few large urban areas. Everywhere else is solidly Republican by default. The Democrats have their own problem with the extreme Left just like the Republicans do with the extreme Tea Party Libertarians. No middle of the road Democrat can win a primary in their core areas. One can win in the Red states, but then has no chance in a general election because they are associated with the far Left.
Obamacares

White Plains, NY

#13833 Dec 30, 2013
There is only one national political party in the USA today, the Democratic Party.
Maude

Floral Park, NY

#13834 Dec 30, 2013
Obamacares wrote:
There is only one national political party in the USA today, the Republican Party.
Everyone agrees thank you.
time to get serious

Yonkers, NY

#13835 Dec 30, 2013
Obamacares wrote:
There is only one national political party in the USA today, the Democratic Party.
Look out for the party behind you - the Tea Party.
Bloody Bill Anderson

Paducah, KY

#13836 Dec 30, 2013
Both the Republicans and Democrats are "national" parties, but neither has a universal appeal. The Republicans are mostly rural-suburban, middle class, religious, and white. They tend to identify with "traditional" values rooted in the historical past, some in the imagined ideals of the 1950s, others in the 1890-1910 timeframe. The Democrats are mostly big city urban, with a "base" of the welfare recipient class, heavily non-white, and non-religious. They tend to identify with European socialist systems, with an element of naive idealism of the kind that people like John Reed showed toward the Bolsheviks in 1917-18. Each has its ideological fringe that has become its "base" that dominates the nominating process. That insures that neither can field a middle of the road candidate. As a result the polarization grows and the societal rift widens.
Opinion

Hot Springs, SD

#13837 Dec 31, 2013
Bloody Bill Anderson wrote:
It does not matter if there are "places in this country where people are out to hang Republicans out to dry." There are still enough places like Kentucky, Georgia, Kansas, Texas, all the South, Plains, and rural areas of the Midwest that consistently vote to elect Republicans to the House of Representatives that we can block any Democartic attempt to implement more Socialism.
Democrats are their own worst enemies on the "moral" issues like abortion and, particularly, gay marriage. So long as the Democrats take the liberal stand on those issues that they do, the Christian Right (whose influence in the areas I mentioned is the no. 1 political force) the Democrats will never convince voters in those areas to vote for a Democrat. Just look at all the red on the map when it comes to governors (30) and the House. Democrats control only a few large urban areas. Everywhere else is solidly Republican by default. The Democrats have their own problem with the extreme Left just like the Republicans do with the extreme Tea Party Libertarians. No middle of the road Democrat can win a primary in their core areas. One can win in the Red states, but then has no chance in a general election because they are associated with the far Left.
Gee Bill weren't you saying the same thing before the last Presidential election????

Didn't Obama win by a Land Slide????

Mid-terms are always tough for the party in power due to the ranting of the party out of power bitching about the President of the other party.

Time will tell Bill what will happen next time around. I remember well the same rhetoric coming out of the right wing nuts prior to the Obama landslide. Then they disappeared off this forum for a few months rather than come and eat some crow soup.

Ed Norton

Brooklyn, NY

#13838 Dec 31, 2013
Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
Calm down Ed. I have other things that interest me other than arguing over whether Ralph was known as a Bus Driver or a janitor.
Do you really ? Is that why you took the time to correct me over whether Ralph was a bus driver or janitor ?

Ralph also tried to sell some stuff so if you want to claim he was a Salesman I don't care.
He did try his hand at being a salesman so if I said Obama was as effective as Ralph was as a salesman, that would have been an accurate statement as well.
Your first posting in #13752 did not reveal where you were coming up with the idea that Ralph was a janitor when everyone else knows that he was a Bus Driver.
Yes, everyone knows he was a bus driver. And anyone who knows anything about the show also knows exactly where I was coming from when I referred to his stint as a janitor.
How were we to know that you were making a direct reference to his incompetence as a janitor in one show? Who remembers every show and what crazy thing Ralph got into.
I do. I was in the show, remember ?
Later you provided the one show that evidently Ralph took a try at being a janitor.
So now if it will make you happy I will admit that at times Ralph the Bus Driver was into preforming other minor jobs such as a Salesman and sometimes a janitor and shown in the video clip you provided.
Good boy. Now remember, don't ever rush to call anyone else a fool before you've done your homework..
I hope that makes you happy as life is too short to getting upset over tv series of Ralph.
You should have thought of that before you got upset enough to correct me over a tv series.
Ed Norton

Brooklyn, NY

#13839 Dec 31, 2013
Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
Lillywhite, you are having a problem with too much sewer gas. Messing up your thinking. Maybe its like smoking too much weed - ya think?
You worked for the NY sewer department and described your job as a "Sub-supervisor in the sub-division of the department of sub-terranian sanitation. You said you "just keep things moving along".
When did you get promoted to an engineer?
Give it up already Op. I thought you had better things to do than argue over a TV series ?

The reference to myself as an ENGINEER was a direct quote from the "Head of the House" episode and was an attempt to inflate the importance of my job rather than admit I was just a sewer worker when interviewed by the 'Questioning Photographer'.

( scroll ahead to the 1:40 mark )

Go back to doing the things that really interest you.....like obsessing over Fox News...or defending that incompetent in the White House.

You're out of your league here.

"Semper Fidelis !!"
Ed Norton

Brooklyn, NY

#13840 Dec 31, 2013
DILLIGAF wrote:
<quoted text>
After posting the last post, I thought about what I posted and perhaps I made a mistake, and as a man who will take responsibility for my words and actions, I will apologize, as we both share the same disdain for the guy in the WH, I have been going through a hell of a lot in the last few months with my wife, which was posted here on this thread, and maybe I am a bit touchy, and short tempered, so please accept my apology.
Takes a big man to admit he was mistaken. Apology accepted.

Hope everything works out with whatever problems you're going through.

Happy New Year.
Opinion

Hot Springs, SD

#13841 Dec 31, 2013
Ed Norton wrote:
<quoted text>
Give it up already Op. I thought you had better things to do than argue over a TV series ?
The reference to myself as an ENGINEER was a direct quote from the "Head of the House" episode and was an attempt to inflate the importance of my job rather than admit I was just a sewer worker when interviewed by the 'Questioning Photographer'.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =st21NE6HWkkXX ( scroll ahead to the 1:40 mark )
Go back to doing the things that really interest you.....like obsessing over Fox News...or defending that incompetent in the White House.
You're out of your league here.
"Semper Fidelis !!"
Argue? I didn't argue with you Ed, I informed you that Ralph was a Bus Driver and not a janitor a salesman or a carpenter.
You said:“Obama is like Ralph was as janitor....he ain't done nuthin'. He's the worst yet.”
I said:“Heck Ed you should know that Ralph was not a janitor he was a bus driver and you worked in the sewers. Any fool knows that.”
Any fool knows that Ralph was by profession a Bus driver for the Gotham Bus Company in Brooklyn . Nope, contrary to your opinion Ralph was not the mechanic or the dispatcher but the bus driver. If you wish to think Ralph was a shoe salesman, a carpenter or any of the other jobs he tried to make money at you are free to do so.
I still maintain that “Any fool knows that Ralph Kramden was a bus driver for the Gotham Bus Company in Brooklyn.
Ed you are sucking up too much sewer gas and you sound like the sewer pipe is backed up to the point it is flowing out of your mouth. Your first posting in #13752 did not reveal where you were coming up with the idea that Ralph was a janitor when everyone else knows that he was a Bus Driver.
How were we to know that you were making a direct reference to his incompetence as a janitor in one show? Who remembers every show and what crazy thing Ralph got into.
Later you provided the one show that evidently Ralph took a try at being a janitor.
So to make you happy I admitted that at times Ralph the Bus Driver was into preforming other minor jobs such as a Salesman and sometimes a janitor and shown in the video clip you provided.
Get your head out of the sewer,calm down, take a time out and breath some fresh air. Lillywhite too much sewer gas is messing up your thinking and causing you to get mad. Maybe its like smoking too much weed - ya think?
You also made the claim that you are an engineer but you worked for the NY sewer department and described your job as a "Sub-supervisor in the sub-division of the department of sub-terranian sanitation. You said you "just keep things moving along".
Any fool knows that also Lillywhite.

But if you wish to consider yourself a engineer I don't care but any fool knows you are not.

I think you spend too much time watching re-runs on TV.

"How sweet it is!”
Opinion

Hot Springs, SD

#13842 Dec 31, 2013
In this nut house you can start out discussing President Obama and wind up talking about the cast of the Honeymooners.

What's next?
Bloody Bill Anderson

Paducah, KY

#13843 Dec 31, 2013
Israel is another issue that has the potential to destroy the Obama administration and the Democrats between now and 2016.

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-w...

The Religious Right tends to identify with the Likud, and opposes any kind of "two state solution" in the Arab-Israeli conflict. The largest Christian Zionist organization, Pastor John Hagee's Christians United for Israel, commands about 70 million adherents. The Southern Baptists have a following of several million more.

If the Israelis decide that they are being abandoned or double crossed by the USA and decide that they have no alternative but to strike Iran on their own, and Obama then refuses to back them up, even a lot of Democrats will turn against the US administration.

And who is the one potential candidate who has already said that if he is elected he will declare that "Any attack upon Israel will be considered an attack upon the United States"?

Answer: Rand Paul.

No other candidate for President has ever made that pledge. None.

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