In Bell case's wake, calling for special prosecutor

[Michael]

"U.S. Census Bureau statistics show 25 percent of the city's population is black, 28 percent is Hispanic and 44 percent is white." INteresting, you claim the racial group (44%) that has the biggest numbers as the minority? Seems to me that 28 and 24 percent would be the minority (less numbers). Oh, you combine blacks and hispanics....lol...when did hispanic become a race?

[Geraldine]

I posted my data above. Post where you found your data--I even gave precinct name and percentages. I notice you did not post anything???

"Lovely how it's my fault their own data shows racial bias...LMAO." You argue this because you cannot refute anything I posted above. Distraction on behalf of Michael. L-MY-AO.

What shows racial bias? That the NYPD releases this data--which CLEARLY shows that they have NOTHING to hide?? That they have paperwork to back up their arrests and summonses, and keep track of these stop and frisks??

As for your comparison to Amadou Diallo -- he was acting in a manner that was totally suspicious. He had been given orders several times.

When you are asked to produce your wallet, do you stare at the cop for extended periods of time (while they're yelling orders) and then fumble in your jacket?

Sorry--cops have a right to shoot if you're fumbling through your pockets suspiciously and you don't respond to their orders in a "timely" fashion.

If I sat there and blankly stared at a cop (while he was telling me to put my hands up--NOT produce ID, as in the Diallo case, thank you)-- and then began to fumble through my jacket...I'd bet I'd be shot, too. These cases happen frequently to immigrants of all ethnic backgrounds. It's called English. Learn it.

Also, I already refuted your glove-box argument. You're supposed to tell the cop, "Sir, I'm reaching for my insurance information..." blah blah blah. Why risk it?

[Geraldine]

Hispanics are a demographic, moron. Blacks are a demographic.

[Geraldine]

Yupp -- when you "add them up" -- Whites are outnumbered in the City of New York.

Are your math skills that bad? LOL

[Geraldine]

Wait, wait...I want to argue this with you one more time:

Michael says that a White Hasidic Jew, armed with a hammer, was shot. But it cannot count towards his argument because a hammer constitutes a weapon.

Okay, sounds great.

But then Michael says that the Black Sean Bell, who made threats of having--and using--a firearm before defiantly disobeying lawful orders in his 2-ton car is considered 'Unarmed'.

Well, actually, you said yourself that a car is a weapon. Can be construed as a weapon. And, considering that Bell and Co. made threats of having (and using) a gun -- there was also the impression that they were armed, and dangerous; above and beyond their car.

What???

Whatever crack you bought in Forest Hills must be the best crack ever, Mikey...You're smoking dope if you honestly believe that you can claim that the NYPD is Racist.

You want to claim incompetence?

Knock yourself out--I might argue WITH you, on that one...

But you want to argue that they "only shoot unarmed Blacks", but then "the Hasidic Jew doesn't count cuz he had a hammer"....

Riiiiiight.

[Geraldine]

Mike argues that they only stop and frisk Black people -- that they're inherently racist...But then say that you've been stopped (you're white) while loitering with your friends in a NYC Park, later at night...

(*Laughing MY a$$ Off!*)

[Geraldine]

And DON'T include the amount of tickets issued for their "Stop and Frisk" tactics--saying that they're racist because only a certain number of Stop and Frisks result in arrests.

Well, yeah. Not every offense calls for an arrest!

We already have jail overcrowding--can't lock everyone up for every ounce of pot they have on their person... LOL LOL LOL

[smitty]

CUT THE CRAP wrote:

<quoted text>
Get a clue!!! If this were a white family that shot this kid, Sharpton would be rioting from here to eternity talking bout why did this man bring a gun out in the first place. If there is a problem someone on your property (with no gun at that) YOU CALL THE POLICE, you dont come outside with a f$%%ing gun!! But there you go with DOUBLE STANDARDS. You can have one standards for our group and another for every other race and they want equality. It don't work like that!!

stop pretending to be black okay, we see right thru you. secondly if bell was white he wouldnt have been shot period. there is a sense of indifference when it comes to black mens lives. this guy was unarmed and was still shot. what about amadou diallo, phil pannel, etc... this has been going on for years. this is a message to black men, doesnt matter who you are if you are black you could be subject to police brutality for no reason. I was watching "america's amazing videos" and there was this white girl who was drunk. they pulled her over, tested her and arrested her for drunk driving. ONce they put her in the car (they went back to her car to check if she had more bottles in the car) while they were doing that she crawled into the front seat(she somehow got her hads from in back of her) and started to drive the car away!! the cop car!!! not only did she try to drive away but she rammed the police car in front of her 3 TIMES!!! do you think she got shot????? Hell no!!!!! why? becaseu she is a white girl and not seen as a threat. Whether I am a threat or not I could still be shot for no good reason by the cops. and history tells us no matter how wrong they are the cops will get off scott free. Its a ugly pattern that needs to be addressed.

[Nadine]

smitty wrote:

<quoted text>
stop pretending to be black okay, we see right thru you. secondly if bell was white he wouldnt have been shot period. there is a sense of indifference when it comes to black mens lives. this guy was unarmed and was still shot. what about amadou diallo, phil pannel, etc... this has been going on for years. this is a message to black men, doesnt matter who you are if you are black you could be subject to police brutality for no reason. I was watching "america's amazing videos" and there was this white girl who was drunk. they pulled her over, tested her and arrested her for drunk driving. ONce they put her in the car (they went back to her car to check if she had more bottles in the car) while they were doing that she crawled into the front seat(she somehow got her hads from in back of her) and started to drive the car away!! the cop car!!! not only did she try to drive away but she rammed the police car in front of her 3 TIMES!!! do you think she got shot????? Hell no!!!!! why? becaseu she is a white girl and not seen as a threat. Whether I am a threat or not I could still be shot for no good reason by the cops. and history tells us no matter how wrong they are the cops will get off scott free. Its a ugly pattern that needs to be addressed.

Yeah, Smitty - but did she claim to have a gun in her possession?

There's two factors to the threats that Sean Bell and his "friends" posed to police. Not only did they refuse orders, but they also gave the impression that they were armed.

If there is a public perception that Blacks are more "dangerous" then Whites, then it must be because the Black community has some serious aversions to admitting that there are some problems within it.

How much crime is committed by African Americans? How much of it is directed towards one another, and other people?

Why?

Why don't we focus on fixing the problems, from within. Before resorting to blaming police, who are essentially on the front lines of this 'war' and get to see these types of behavior, firsthand.

Besides, the cops involved in this case were all minorities. I hardly think that cries racism.

[NO SHE DIDNT]

smitty wrote:

<quoted text>
stop pretending to be black okay, we see right thru you. secondly if bell was white he wouldnt have been shot period. there is a sense of indifference when it comes to black mens lives. this guy was unarmed and was still shot. what about amadou diallo, phil pannel, etc... this has been going on for years. this is a message to black men, doesnt matter who you are if you are black you could be subject to police brutality for no reason. I was watching "america's amazing videos" and there was this white girl who was drunk. they pulled her over, tested her and arrested her for drunk driving. ONce they put her in the car (they went back to her car to check if she had more bottles in the car) while they were doing that she crawled into the front seat(she somehow got her hads from in back of her) and started to drive the car away!! the cop car!!! not only did she try to drive away but she rammed the police car in front of her 3 TIMES!!! do you think she got shot????? Hell no!!!!! why? becaseu she is a white girl and not seen as a threat. Whether I am a threat or not I could still be shot for no good reason by the cops. and history tells us no matter how wrong they are the cops will get off scott free. Its a ugly pattern that needs to be addressed.

THANK YOU SMITTY!! I seen that white girl on the cops cruiser cam as well which was broadcasted in television. She used the car as a "weapon" as well AND was riding in the cops car which contained shotguns (the cop stated that part himself)They fired not one shot at her!

[NO SHE DIDNT]

smitty wrote:

<quoted text>
stop pretending to be black okay, we see right thru you. secondly if bell was white he wouldnt have been shot period. there is a sense of indifference when it comes to black mens lives. this guy was unarmed and was still shot. what about amadou diallo, phil pannel, etc... this has been going on for years. this is a message to black men, doesnt matter who you are if you are black you could be subject to police brutality for no reason. I was watching "america's amazing videos" and there was this white girl who was drunk. they pulled her over, tested her and arrested her for drunk driving. ONce they put her in the car (they went back to her car to check if she had more bottles in the car) while they were doing that she crawled into the front seat(she somehow got her hads from in back of her) and started to drive the car away!! the cop car!!! not only did she try to drive away but she rammed the police car in front of her 3 TIMES!!! do you think she got shot????? Hell no!!!!! why? becaseu she is a white girl and not seen as a threat. Whether I am a threat or not I could still be shot for no good reason by the cops. and history tells us no matter how wrong they are the cops will get off scott free. Its a ugly pattern that needs to be addressed.

I meant thank you for pointing out that case. I had forgotten all about that one.

[lee]

Michael wrote:

Geraldine, if I ask for anyone to show me a case of the Nassau County cops shooting a select group of people, and you post Suffolk County cop statistics....I should accept those statistics?
You seriously posted "What does it matter whether they had a gun, or not?" Uh....cuz they were shot after a cop yelled GUN....and there WAS NO GUN. For me, it is imperative that people who do not have a gun, don't get shot by the police. You know, the whole protect and serve spiel.
When we see plenty of NYPD officers confront people carrying weapons, yet somehow manage to not shoot anyone (armed or unarmed)....then how is it that people try to justify folks who have no weapon, being shot?
Again, never claimed the cops are individually racist. Said the NYPD and its training is inherrently racist....and I offered the fact that since 1999, only one type of unarmed individual has been shot by the NYPD.
INstead of discussing, you try to distract. Now, the traditional "media is biased" excuse for the lack of any record of an NYPD officer shooting an unarmed white person. A few have mentioned the 2006 Halloween Riots, in which group of whites used bats, wood and garbage cans against cops, yet not a single shot fired.....closest thing was a Hasidic Jew who had a ceremonial hammer in his hand when he approached cops.....and a hammer can be a weapon, so not unarmed.

You're still a jerk, seems like things have'nt changed, still can't get over the fact that the judge cleared all the officers of the cherges. This is equal to a jury clearing them. Time to move on.

[CUT THE CRAP]

smitty wrote:

<quoted text>
stop pretending to be black okay, we see right thru you.

So let me get this straight, because I don't agree with you and many other blacks on this forum, I not black huh?? Interesting. I would like to how exactly do you define blackness. Then again, I really don't care because I don't have to prove my blackness to anyone. Its something that's plain to see. My main concern is blacks as a community working on getting rid of violence within our our communities because we definitely have enough problems on our own even when you take whites out of the picture. The broader picture rather than isolated incidents is what concerns me the most.

[Justice-The Judge]

The case is closed Justice has been served ! The Justice department should put a stop to the Rev All. and his thugs once and for all !!!

[Bangkok Bill]

The US would be a fantastic country without those people dragging it down.

[smitty]

Nadine wrote:

<quoted text>
Yeah, Smitty - but did she claim to have a gun in her possession?
There's two factors to the threats that Sean Bell and his "friends" posed to police. Not only did they refuse orders, but they also gave the impression that they were armed.
If there is a public perception that Blacks are more "dangerous" then Whites, then it must be because the Black community has some serious aversions to admitting that there are some problems within it.
How much crime is committed by African Americans? How much of it is directed towards one another, and other people?
Why?
Why don't we focus on fixing the problems, from within. Before resorting to blaming police, who are essentially on the front lines of this 'war' and get to see these types of behavior, firsthand.
Besides, the cops involved in this case were all minorities. I hardly think that cries racism.

whatever, doesnt matter the color of the officers the fact of the matter is that I (a tax paying, law abiding citizen ) should have to have the reality that I could be shot by a police officer just because I post a "threat" to them. Amadou diallo certainly didnt pose a threat. but the threat to them was his skin color. Thats a problem, and I am sorry that you cant see that.but as a black man this is my reality, so I dont expect you to understand.

[Geraldine]

smitty wrote:

<quoted text>
whatever, doesnt matter the color of the officers the fact of the matter is that I (a tax paying, law abiding citizen ) should have to have the reality that I could be shot by a police officer just because I post a "threat" to them. Amadou diallo certainly didnt pose a threat. but the threat to them was his skin color. Thats a problem, and I am sorry that you cant see that.but as a black man this is my reality, so I dont expect you to understand.

Do you honestly believe that these three minority officers shot Sean Bell because of his skin color?

What planet are you from?

All three of the officers were minorities--who had had plenty (thousands, maybe) of run-ins with dark-skinned and minority perps--and never once so much as fired a shot.

The issue is, Sean Bell's actions were completely defiant; most law-abiding citizens would not be in his position, because, most law-abiding citizens do not view police orders as "a threat to their manhood, etc etc"...

Also, again on the Amadou Diallo martyr -- he too did not follow police orders.

So you mean to tell me that it's okay that an illegal alien came to the USA, did not speak English at all, and could not comprehend the order of, "Stop!" Instead, he reached his hand into his jacket to fumble for something, suspiciously.

Again, following orders appears to be more difficult for some then for others.

Of course I don't understand your argument. I am the type of person who acknowledges my actions, my shortcomings and flaws--and works to fix them, rather then blame them on every scapegoat I can find.

The very fact that these three officers involved were minorities should immediately show you that there was no racism involved.

If you're still so concerned--then move to another country. Or do the same as Sean Bell.

We're tired of your EXCUSES for your own poor CHOICES.

[Geraldine]

P.S. Smitty--

I find you an embodiment of EXACTLY what is wrong with culture, today.

No personal fortitude, nor any reasonable responsibility towards one's own destiny. By placing blame on every other factor, besides oneself, you'll find that you're only cheating yourself.

Why don't you rise above the "easy way out" or the "easy excuse", and actually try to better the impression that you're so starkly reiterating?

Of course racism in the USA cannot die--those that keep chanting it in the streets are the ones who keep it alive!

Believe me -- my generation doesn't give a crap what color your skin is, what sexual orientation you are, if you have two mothers, like to dress in drag, do drugs, etc etc.

I find that the world is changing; that my generation has completely leveled most playing fields...

And you'll find NO sympathy within my demographic for your own pathetic choices.

We've opened the door....Why don't you come in from the rain?

Unless, of course, you prefer to stand out there--soaking wet--yelling at everyone else for the rain...when it's YOU who've made the mess.

[rp077 Long island]

Geraldine wrote:

P.S. Smitty--
I find you an embodiment of EXACTLY what is wrong with culture, today.
No personal fortitude, nor any reasonable responsibility towards one's own destiny. By placing blame on every other factor, besides oneself, you'll find that you're only cheating yourself.
Why don't you rise above the "easy way out" or the "easy excuse", and actually try to better the impression that you're so starkly reiterating?
Of course racism in the USA cannot die--those that keep chanting it in the streets are the ones who keep it alive!
Believe me -- my generation doesn't give a crap what color your skin is, what sexual orientation you are, if you have two mothers, like to dress in drag, do drugs, etc etc.
I find that the world is changing; that my generation has completely leveled most playing fields...
And you'll find NO sympathy within my demographic for your own pathetic choices.
We've opened the door....Why don't you come in from the rain?
Unless, of course, you prefer to stand out there--soaking wet--yelling at everyone else for the rain...when it's YOU who've made the mess.

Geraldine, glad to see you took up the logic with "Michael" while I was gone for the week.
Racism must exist in this country; the alternative is that blacks must take a long deep look into their own culture and not like what they see.
We have been told over and over how racists of a society America are, yet we are on the cusp of an election that will most likely see a black president. Of course, if he is not elected we all know what the excuse would be.....
Europe, we are told, are far more intellectual than us brutes), yet the continent is about to be overtaken by Muslim extremist who could not assimilate into European society. In the U.S we do not seem to have the radicalization populace that is prevalent in "Londonistan", why?
Of course all of society's ills are laid at the feet of the police. It is all their fault! Somehow good honest people who arrive in the police academy are turned into ravaging racists!(Apparently even the minority officers in this case).
We see it time and time again, over one night this weekend, 7 blacks were shot (1 15 year old killed) in the Rockaways. No protest, no calls for special prosecutors, no Obama speeches on race, just business as usual in the black community and by tomorrow night, another black male will be dead at the hand of his "brothers".
But that is not important, we need to emasculate the police, it is all their fault.....

[smitty]

Geraldine wrote:

<quoted text>
Do you honestly believe that these three minority officers shot Sean Bell because of his skin color?
What planet are you from?
All three of the officers were minorities--who had had plenty (thousands, maybe) of run-ins with dark-skinned and minority perps--and never once so much as fired a shot.
The issue is, Sean Bell's actions were completely defiant; most law-abiding citizens would not be in his position, because, most law-abiding citizens do not view police orders as "a threat to their manhood, etc etc"...
Also, again on the Amadou Diallo martyr -- he too did not follow police orders.
So you mean to tell me that it's okay that an illegal alien came to the USA, did not speak English at all, and could not comprehend the order of, "Stop!" Instead, he reached his hand into his jacket to fumble for something, suspiciously.
Again, following orders appears to be more difficult for some then for others.
Of course I don't understand your argument. I am the type of person who acknowledges my actions, my shortcomings and flaws--and works to fix them, rather then blame them on every scapegoat I can find.
The very fact that these three officers involved were minorities should immediately show you that there was no racism involved.
If you're still so concerned--then move to another country. Or do the same as Sean Bell.
We're tired of your EXCUSES for your own poor CHOICES.

no but I think if it was a white man they wouldnt have shot him. I think they were quick on the trigger. I have seen many people (espeecially on cops) ram cop cars all the time and they dont get killed. I am a law biding citizen so I dont know what the hell you are talking about excuses. I didnt do a damn thing. I am getting tired of non-blacks blaming all blacks for a fews problems. I dint make any poor choices so I dont know wht the hell you are talking about, stop whining!!!!