Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt...

Full story: Newsday

When Bill Clinton took office in 1993, global warming was a slow-moving environmental problem that was easy to ignore.

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“So long to you, Righties”

Since: Jan 12

keep suckin' and whiffin'!

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#35478
May 1, 2013
 

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Moved Around wrote:
You will never sell the idea of "Global Warming" in Coal country.
This from the Pineville, KY, Topix forum thread called "Our coal miners need JOBS!!!":
"Coal was meant to be mined ! Let them mine it ! Other countries are mining coal .if this was a worldwide campaign to stop coal then why just us ? The "green wind blowers" are making money from Obama then just drifting from town to town. Obama is going to weaken the American dollar so much it will take every dime a man has to buy bread. That is what is coming to . There isn't going to be a workforce to keep up this country much longer . Obama is will take our weapons , our energy , our economy then leave this country. I think he has set us up for the greatest fall in American History ! If you think Hillary Clinton is different -she is not ! Clinton sold out and her husband caused our banks to fall because of deregulation ! She said one that Obama had no experience she was right then she sold out . She seems brainwashed and Clinton he never told the truth did he ? Clinton is "the great embellisher" !"
Hatred is very American, and of course in coal country they're probably none too keen on a nee-gro in the White House either.
Retired Farmer

Paducah, KY

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#35479
May 1, 2013
 

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I am not a coal miner nor am I a supporter of coal, but you have to admit that coal's hold on the economy of the U.S.A. is enormous. Its political power in KY is even larger.

A Kentucky license plate:

http://www.plateshack.com/y2k/Kentucky2/ky201...

There is in fact ten times more coal being mined now than there was in 1960, but only a tenth as many miners are doing the work. Machines have replaced men, but you cannot convince most miners of that no mater what statistics you show them. That is because the coal companies, some of them foreign owned, have such a hold on their thinking through propaganda.
gcaveman1

Laurel, MS

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#35480
May 1, 2013
 

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litesong wrote:
<quoted text>
First,'lyin' brian' has no brain....... off-world relative (or genetic spawn) of dirtling, alias 'earthling has no brain', ya know.
We got what you got..... even the honeysuckle.
Not two redtails, tho.......two bald eagles. We had ospreys & redtails. But they nest far away, now that the eagles are here. Got views of 6000 foot mountains...... with 2500 foot, very steep cliffs in one of the newest wilderness areas....... the Wild Sky & one of the most entrancing wilderness areas...... the Alpine Lakes Wilderness.
Hey, try Google Earth. You can pilot yourself along the cliffs of Mt. Index & Mt. Baring. Fly between the buttresses of the north wall of Mt. Index. Meander through the ruggedness of Merchant Peak, Gunn Peak & Jump Off ridge. Of course, lots of other peaks, in the most wondrous Alpine Wilderness Area. Oh, yeah, the Monte Cristo Peaks are spectacular too.
Sounds nice. I'll check it out.
gcaveman1

Laurel, MS

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#35481
May 1, 2013
 

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Moved Around wrote:
<quoted text>
No. But cities, counties, etc. can and do enact building codes. I once lived in a town in the west that required that every new house built have a storm shelter. If you didn't build it, you did not get a building permit.
Building permits usually imply that you will comply with local and national codes. If you and like-minded people don't like them, get politicized and try to change them. Majority rules.

They must have had a reason for that local code. I understand that in Florida, they "force" people to greatly strengthen their new buildings. That's because building parts become missiles in hurricanes and if everyone builds stronger, there should be less destruction from the primary and secondary causes.
Retired Farmer

Paducah, KY

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#35482
May 1, 2013
 

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gcaveman1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Building permits usually imply that you will comply with local and national codes. If you and like-minded people don't like them, get politicized and try to change them. Majority rules.
They must have had a reason for that local code. I understand that in Florida, they "force" people to greatly strengthen their new buildings. That's because building parts become missiles in hurricanes and if everyone builds stronger, there should be less destruction from the primary and secondary causes.
That is pretty much what they are doing. It's the popular impetus behind the TEA Party and the Republican party's turn toward anti-regulation libertarianism.

There is not always a good reason for a particular building code. There have been efforts to ban solar panels on the roofs of houses simply because some people did not like the looks of them.

Since: Jul 11

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#35483
May 1, 2013
 

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Retired Farmer wrote:
I am not a coal miner nor am I a supporter of coal, but you have to admit that coal's hold on the economy of the U.S.A. is enormous. Its political power in KY is even larger.
A Kentucky license plate:
http://www.plateshack.com/y2k/Kentucky2/ky201...
There is in fact ten times more coal being mined now than there was in 1960, but only a tenth as many miners are doing the work. Machines have replaced men, but you cannot convince most miners of that no mater what statistics you show them. That is because the coal companies, some of them foreign owned, have such a hold on their thinking through propaganda.
It really doesn't matter, how many employed. The facts are someone, somewhere is burning that coal along with a gazillion cars on the planet burning fossil fuels every single day.

It is no different than all those farmers ploughing those fields back in the 30's creating that man made disaster in a previous post. It is the Capitalism machine that just keeps marching on no matter what the cost. The model has to change to give the Environment top shelf value in that machine or it will continue to feed on itself. If we ignore that, then it won't be just be your kids quality of life will be gone forever. It will be yours as well.
brrr its cold

Livonia, LA

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#35484
May 1, 2013
 

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when you Yankees are freezing your ass off from the earliest cold winter yet, keep on believing in global warming!tell yourselves its not really that cold because we have global warming?all gore told you that and hes a liberal so it has to be true?

Since: Jul 11

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#35485
May 1, 2013
 

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brrr its cold wrote:
when you Yankees are freezing your ass off from the earliest cold winter yet, keep on believing in global warming!tell yourselves its not really that cold because we have global warming?all gore told you that and hes a liberal so it has to be true?
Yeah we will all do that when you pick a book and learn what global warming is really all about and when you come to realise that its not about the day to day temps where you live but the over all temps of the planet. Then you might not be so amazed as to why you are freezing your a$$ off in spring.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

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#35487
May 1, 2013
 

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brrr its cold wrote:
when you Yankees are freezing your ass off from the earliest cold winter yet, keep on believing in global warming!tell yourselves its not really that cold because we have global warming?all gore told you that and hes a liberal so it has to be true?
Contrary to a popular misconception, the rate of warming has not declined. Global temperature is rising as fast in the past decade as in the prior 2 decades, despite year-to-year
fluctuations associated with the El Niño-La Niña cycle of tropical ocean temperature.[Scientists]
Retired Farmer

Paducah, KY

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#35488
May 1, 2013
 

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OzRitz wrote:
<quoted text>
It really doesn't matter, how many employed. The facts are someone, somewhere is burning that coal along with a gazillion cars on the planet burning fossil fuels every single day.
It is no different than all those farmers ploughing those fields back in the 30's creating that man made disaster in a previous post. It is the Capitalism machine that just keeps marching on no matter what the cost. The model has to change to give the Environment top shelf value in that machine or it will continue to feed on itself. If we ignore that, then it won't be just be your kids quality of life will be gone forever. It will be yours as well.
Maybe so, but tell that to a miner who has just been handed a pink slip. His kids have to eat today. Same held true for the farmers on the High Plains in the 1920s. They were desperately trying to make a living in a time of sharply declining prices for produce.

Vicious, insulting attacks like the one by "litesong" above will only makes them circle the wagons and fight back even harder. That sort of thing is why miners consider environmentalists their enemy. It is then a short step to labeling "green energy" like wind and solar as a fraud and a conspiracy to put them out of work.
gcaveman1

Laurel, MS

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#35489
May 1, 2013
 

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Retired Farmer wrote:
<quoted text>
That is pretty much what they are doing. It's the popular impetus behind the TEA Party and the Republican party's turn toward anti-regulation libertarianism.
There is not always a good reason for a particular building code. There have been efforts to ban solar panels on the roofs of houses simply because some people did not like the looks of them.
You got stupidity everywhere. You got people who think things should be a certain way and when they get in control, it's as bad as any dictatorship. Clotheslines banned, storage building must match the house, wildflowers not allowed. Rules just made for someone like me to break. Neighborhood associations can have the force of law. And then there's the insurance guys.

On the other hand, I bought a house once that was built out of code; specifically, the SHORT man who built the house made the back door 5' 11" and I'm 6'0". I can't tell you how many times I cracked or scraped the top of my head. Codes are for everyone, codes are democratic.

Libertarianism is wonderful, I agree with it, until it slips into anarchy. Then it's just stoopid.
gcaveman1

Laurel, MS

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#35490
May 1, 2013
 

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brrr its cold wrote:
when you Yankees are freezing your ass off from the earliest cold winter yet, keep on believing in global warming!tell yourselves its not really that cold because we have global warming?all gore told you that and hes a liberal so it has to be true?
"earliest cold winter yet"? I guess you can back that up with some statistics, right?

I didn't think so.

By the way.......you've been GORED!
gcaveman1

Laurel, MS

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#35491
May 1, 2013
 

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Retired Farmer wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe so, but tell that to a miner who has just been handed a pink slip. His kids have to eat today. Same held true for the farmers on the High Plains in the 1920s. They were desperately trying to make a living in a time of sharply declining prices for produce.
Vicious, insulting attacks like the one by "litesong" above will only makes them circle the wagons and fight back even harder. That sort of thing is why miners consider environmentalists their enemy. It is then a short step to labeling "green energy" like wind and solar as a fraud and a conspiracy to put them out of work.
THERE'S THE ABSTRACTIONS AND THEN THERE'S THE REALITY.

The miners, and the activists on their side, are just now addressing the way they've been used all these years. Their fathers and grandfathers likely died from black lung after working their asses off for decades, and the pay didn't match the risks. A pink slip could be seen as a blessing if there was some safety net; but there is none. Coal, it seems, is all the Appalachians have, and that's the reality.

We have it here, too, in the South, where our non-union labor was exploited as a step between the high priced North and the slave labor of China. We beg for jobs here, give tax breaks and pave roads for companies to locate here for these measly $12-15-an-hour jobs, and see them leave when workers attempt to organize or when another Thailand opens up offering labor at $20 a day. We feel your pain.

Nobody said any of this would be easy.
litesong

Everett, WA

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#35492
May 1, 2013
 

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Retired Farmer wrote:
Vicious, insulting attacks like the one by "litesong" above will only makes(sic) them circle the wagons and fight back even harder.
None of my posts are insulting attacks. My posts precisely describe the exceptional inhumanities that are the hallmark of toxic topix AGW deniers. My wife & I have been threatened with the worst of tortures, rapes, deaths & mayhems. I would have left toxic topix half a decade ago. Tho the viciousness of toxic topix AGW deniers HAVE driven many AGW advocates away, so they would no longer voice their pro AGW positions, I have remained to post the characteristics of the miserable alienness of toxic topix AGW deniers. They will not get away with their off-world tactics.

Thank you for highlighting my posts as particularly vicious & insulting. It is good to know that my descriptions are of exceptional accuracy, & point to the eventual self-destruction of toxic topix AGW deniers. Thank you also for showing that toxic topix AGW deniers are defensively expressing themselves, defending their reprehensible actions with ever decreasing effectiveness.

As for you "retired farmer"....... do you want to continue your ill-conceived new battle in a decade long blood bath of toxic topix AGW denier warfare.

Since: Jul 11

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#35493
May 2, 2013
 

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Retired Farmer wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe so, but tell that to a miner who has just been handed a pink slip. His kids have to eat today. Same held true for the farmers on the High Plains in the 1920s. They were desperately trying to make a living in a time of sharply declining prices for produce.
Vicious, insulting attacks like the one by "litesong" above will only makes them circle the wagons and fight back even harder. That sort of thing is why miners consider environmentalists their enemy. It is then a short step to labeling "green energy" like wind and solar as a fraud and a conspiracy to put them out of work.
It is also a short step chasing "cheap", Corporate America and Corporate Europe went chasing cheap in order to survive in the global economy. But like the farmers in the dust bowl saga no one is concerned that everyone is doing the same thing. Exporting manufacturing offshore along with jobs and sooner or later the price of cheap multiplies 10 fold. Wether its by-passing Labor laws, environmental laws or just plain safe working conditions. Just so we can enjoy cheap products in our home. So we no longer fix a broken TV or any other appliance we just go out and buy a new one. Hence the extra waste we create, then the clean air you enjoy in the US becomes dirty air in China. 400 get crushed to death in a sweat shop making designer clothes and we still go out and buy a Benetton sweater or a new Iphone made in another sweat shop. So the net gain is NIL in fact it is always negative.
When you create a economic model that prices the environment out of profits then it is the short cut to disaster. Mining jobs & other such industries might go with that evolution. But who screamed out when US clothing manufacturers went missing or white good makers, electronics, computers etc etc. They have all GONE! Why because we are addicted to cheap.
Its the same with the environment, name calling greenies as tree huggers and the like might have some feel good sentiment to it but a lot of these ppl can see a catastrophe fast approaching. However when you are made blind by the dollar$ then that threat is the same distance its always been. 20 yrs ago or in 20 yrs time, and that is the sad reflection on mankind that we created a system that can't learn from history or summon the courage to change course. Man has conquered some huge milestones in the past with medicine and technology but this one is the BIGGIE of them all. Its not like coming up with a pill to cure the plague it means a monumental change for everyone living on this planet.
The Invisible Man

Lake Mary, FL

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#35494
May 2, 2013
 

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OzRitz wrote:
<quoted text>
It means a monumental change for everyone living on this planet.
What types of changes? I am very interested in hearing what you have to say.

Since: Apr 13

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#35495
May 2, 2013
 
The price to pay for our planet in terms environmental and social to maintain a consumerist lifestyle and to wonder whether all those things that we believe are essential to really, begin to see things from a different prospective and with a minimalist lifestyle is rewarding to know that we do good even a little to our planet... http://www.minimalistgeneration.com

“EnvironMENTAList ”

Since: Feb 07

Near Detroit

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#35496
May 2, 2013
 

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If science can say an asteroid hit is inevitable why do they say their climate crisis from Human CO2 is only still "possible" after 28 years of research? Wouldn't the ultimate crisis need the ultimate certainty otherwise it's simple fear mongering? So how close to irreversible unstoppable warming will science lead us before they say it is inevitable not just "maybe" a climate crisis? One has to have WANTED this misery to have been real!
You remaining Bible Thumping "believers" who enjoy fear mongering a climate blame crisis to our children are like sick car accident rubberneckers; you just want to watch the world burn with your childish glee.
MOVE ON:
*Occupywallstreet does not even mention CO2 in its list of demands because of the bank-funded and corporate run carbon trading stock markets ruled by corporations.
For 28 years science has only agreed it "COULD" be a crisis and not one IPCC warning says it WILL happen and not one IPCC warning isn't smothered in "maybes". If "maybe" is good enough to condemn us all........you are no planet lover, you just hate humanity.
gcaveman1

Laurel, MS

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#35497
May 2, 2013
 

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mememine69 wrote:
blah, blah, blah, blah, same old bullshit, different day...
There's no maybe to it. It's happening now.
Retired Farmer

Paducah, KY

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#35498
May 2, 2013
 
mememine69 wrote:
You remaining Bible Thumping "believers" who enjoy fear mongering a climate blame crisis to our children are like sick car accident rubberneckers; you just want to watch the world burn with your childish glee.
I do not understand what you are trying to say here. Most religious people follow the example of Rev. Jerry Falwall and contend that Global Warming is a hoax.

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