Once slow-moving threat, global warming speeds up, leaving litt...

[SpaceBlues]

Teddy R wrote:

<quoted text>
I admire your optimism, even though I can muster precious little of it myself as I consider the overall calibre and judgement of "those responsible for governance" in Washington today. "Statesmanship" is not the first thought that comes to my mind as I survey the expensive wreckage ...

Are you kidding?

Compare Dr Biden with "shotgun" Cheney, for example. I remember the day he shot his friend on the head. Some stateman he was!

[SpaceBlues]

Teddy R wrote:

<quoted text>
Well. I certainly am the first to admit my awesome powers of incredible Greatness were not up to the challenge of deciphering WTF you're on about here.
Hungry for authenticity, are we? You didn't even check out the Stewart Brand vid I linked especially for you, did you.
Go check it out. All of it. Seriously. Then come back and try to tell me you got nothing of value out of it.

As a fact, I did watch it. I think he's too simplistic about GMO and nuclear reactors. That's alright. He'll get more nuanced.

You read this one:

http://www.scitechnol.com/GIGS/GIGS-1-101.pdf

Can you muster the science and the math?

[Teddy R]

SpaceBlues wrote:

<quoted text>As a fact, I did watch it. I think he's too simplistic about GMO and nuclear reactors. That's alright. He'll get more nuanced.
You read this one:
http://www.scitechnol.com/GIGS/GIGS-1-101.pdf
Can you muster the science and the math?

Math? What math? Why - did you find it a struggle?

Brand has been working seriously on this stuff for over 40 years and originally published this "Environmental Heresies" thesis in 2005 - so I think that's all the "nuance" you're going to get.

As for "simplistic," his thesis makes the anti-nuke neo-Luddites' "analysis" look like the work of the village idiot.(Which it is).

As for the paper - largely a yawner; no news.

I did find this part interesting, though -

"Diurnal variations decreased from 1900 to 1987, and then increased; this increase is significant but not understood.""

"Some of the climate models predict that the diurnal temperature range, that is, the difference between Tmax and Tmin, should decrease due to greenhouse warming. The physics is that greenhouse gases have more impact at night when they absorb infrared and reduce the cooling, and that this effect is larger than the additional daytime warming. This predicted change is sometimes cited as one of the “fingerprints” that separates greenhouse warming from other effects such as solar variability."

"The behavior of the diurnal range is not simple; it drops from 1900 to 1987, and then it rises. The rise takes place during a period when, according to the IPCC report, the anthropogenic effect of global warming is evident above the background variations from natural causes. Although the post-1987 rise is not sufficient to undo the drop that took place from 1901 to 1987, the trend of 0.86 ± 0.13°C/century is distinctly upwards with a very high level of confidence. This reversal is particularly odd since it occurs during a period when the rise in Tavg was strong and showed no apparent changes in behavior. From 1950 to 2010, because of the recent rise, the net change we observe is -0.04 ± 0.01°C/decade. We are not aware of any global climate models that predicted the reversal of slope that we observe."

Now what do you make of that?

[PHD]

Teddy R wrote:

<quoted text>
Math? What math? Why - did you find it a struggle?
Brand has been working seriously on this stuff for over 40 years and originally published this "Environmental Heresies" thesis in 2005 - so I think that's all the "nuance" you're going to get.
As for "simplistic," his thesis makes the anti-nuke neo-Luddites' "analysis" look like the work of the village idiot.(Which it is).
As for the paper - largely a yawner; no news.
I did find this part interesting, though -
"Diurnal variations decreased from 1900 to 1987, and then increased; this increase is significant but not understood.""
"Some of the climate models predict that the diurnal temperature range, that is, the difference between Tmax and Tmin, should decrease due to greenhouse warming. The physics is that greenhouse gases have more impact at night when they absorb infrared and reduce the cooling, and that this effect is larger than the additional daytime warming. This predicted change is sometimes cited as one of the “fingerprints” that separates greenhouse warming from other effects such as solar variability."
"The behavior of the diurnal range is not simple; it drops from 1900 to 1987, and then it rises. The rise takes place during a period when, according to the IPCC report, the anthropogenic effect of global warming is evident above the background variations from natural causes. Although the post-1987 rise is not sufficient to undo the drop that took place from 1901 to 1987, the trend of 0.86 ± 0.13°C/century is distinctly upwards with a very high level of confidence. This reversal is particularly odd since it occurs during a period when the rise in Tavg was strong and showed no apparent changes in behavior. From 1950 to 2010, because of the recent rise, the net change we observe is -0.04 ± 0.01°C/decade. We are not aware of any global climate models that predicted the reversal of slope that we observe."
Now what do you make of that?

Useless scientific science fiction.

[flack]

Commercial asteroid hunters announce plans for new robotic exploration fleet

Belgium plans artificial island to store wind power

[PHD]

flack wrote:

Commercial asteroid hunters announce plans for new robotic exploration fleet
Belgium plans artificial island to store wind power

Yes Wind power rules again.

[HomoSapiensLapto picus]

Teddy R wrote:

<quoted text>
I admire your optimism, even though I can muster precious little of it myself as I consider the overall calibre and judgement [SIC] of "those responsible for governance" in Washington today. "Statesmanship" is not the first thought that comes to my mind as I survey the expensive wreckage ...

Teddy R,

Unfortunately, at this time your pessimism is not unwarranted. 8 of the 12 largest companies in the world (by revenue) are oil companies, 2 are auto manufacturers, one is a utility & the other is WalMart.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/global...

They all have strong financial interests in AGW/CC denial, though carefully written laws could make the auto manufacturers & the utility more neutral.

The amount of money & power lined up against common sense & scientific fact is staggering. Only strong beliefs by large numbers of people have a chance to succeed in opposing these monied interests.

The truth will come out eventually. We just have to hope that billions of people won't have to die in unpleasant ways, & civilization (or "civilisation" given your spelling of "calibre") won't have to be completely destroyed.

[PHD]

Just fallow the money and you will see the truth.

[flack]

London mayor claims recent snow storm is proof we are headed to mini ice age.

[Jonah_Galt]

SpaceBlues wrote:

<quoted text>Are you kidding?
Compare Dr Biden with "shotgun" Cheney, for example. I remember the day he shot his friend on the head. Some statesman he was!

Dr. Biden?
Doctor Biden is Biden's wife. Sometimes listening to VP Biden I wonder, if he graduated from a high school..
But on a good note - he provides us with fun and entertainment.

[PHD]

More global warming cooling climate change scientific science fiction.

[litesong]

Teddy R wrote:

"The behavior of the diurnal range is not simple; it drops from 1900 to 1987, and then it rises. "
Now what do you make of that?

Do you think changes in Arctic cold fronts in the 1980's & onward, moving to the south might have any separating effects to Tmax & Tmin, that could cause an increase in diurnal range?

I think there is evidence that increasing energy in the atmosphere due to AGW, is causing warm fronts to push with more vigor into the North Pole region, simultaneously pushing Arctic cold fronts more vigorously to the south. How more vigorous south moving Arctic fronts would affect Tmax & Tmin at the more numerous weather stations in the south differently tho, is a mystery.

[SpaceBlues]

Jonah_Galt wrote:

<quoted text>
Dr. Biden?
Doctor Biden is Biden's wife. Sometimes listening to VP Biden I wonder, if he graduated from a high school..
But on a good note - he provides us with fun and entertainment.

Why not? Dr Biden received his Juris Doctor in 1968.

[Teddy R]

HomoSapiensLaptopicus wrote:

<quoted text>
Teddy R,
Unfortunately, at this time your pessimism is not unwarranted. 8 of the 12 largest companies in the world (by revenue) are oil companies, 2 are auto manufacturers, one is a utility & the other is WalMart.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/global...
They all have strong financial interests in AGW/CC denial, though carefully written laws could make the auto manufacturers & the utility more neutral.
The amount of money & power lined up against common sense & scientific fact is staggering. Only strong beliefs by large numbers of people have a chance to succeed in opposing these monied interests.
The truth will come out eventually. We just have to hope that billions of people won't have to die in unpleasant ways, & civilization (or "civilisation" given your spelling of "calibre") won't have to be completely destroyed.

Capital has no ideological God but profit, and there is plenty of profit being made off AGW/GCC worshippers as well already (particularly when technologically illiterate government bureaucrats are foolishly handing out free money by the billions to whatever fast-talking greenie promoter/fraudster has the sexiest and most politically congenial patter).

When the day arrives that capital can reliably make bigger profits flogging windmills, solar collector, and fuel cell/electric-powered cars that are actually cost-competitive/economical - sans subsidies -, capital will drop ExxonMobil and all those eeevul huge globalist corporations you currently find so skeery so fast it will make your head spin, and rush into all those "good" green carbon-free energy & transportation opportunities you love so much.

That day has not yet arrived. But when it does, I think you had better prepare yourself for the hard truth that it will still be the Owners of those same Big Oil giants you will be buying all that green energy from, and the same automotive giants who you will be buying your green transportation from. And they will be even bigger and badder globalists than you reckon they are today.

Also - just a presentational tip: jeremiads threatening people with billions of deaths and ends to civilization frankly aren't politically effective or persuasive, no matter how convinced you may be - people just tune that kind of hysterical stuff out. No one listens to Chicken Little or the boy who cried wolf, even when they're right.

[PHD]

SpaceBlues wrote:

<quoted text>Why not? Dr Biden received his Juris Doctor in 1968.

And you think topix doesn’t know what you publish? Attacks on me won't delete or erase what you are and what you do. You should stop making an ASSumption of your---self before you know the facts. Do contact topix to satisfy your accusations of the reprint BS your posting of what I said. You are a dumbASSumption of your---self again.

[Wallop10]

Teddy R wrote:

<quoted text>
Capital has no ideological God but profit, and there is plenty of profit being made off AGW/GCC worshippers as well already (particularly when technologically illiterate government bureaucrats are foolishly handing out free money by the billions to whatever fast-talking greenie promoter/fraudster has the sexiest and most politically congenial patter).

We have an energy crisis for the long term.

It's true, though that the recent glut of natural gas changed the market assumptions of energy prices when fixed investments were made here.

And it's also true, that the real problem with companies like Solyndra was that China started heavily subsidizing their local companies, pricing them out of the market.

[Teddy R]

litesong wrote:

<quoted text>
Do you think changes in Arctic cold fronts in the 1980's & onward, moving to the south might have any separating effects to Tmax & Tmin, that could cause an increase in diurnal range?
I think there is evidence that increasing energy in the atmosphere due to AGW, is causing warm fronts to push with more vigor into the North Pole region, simultaneously pushing Arctic cold fronts more vigorously to the south. How more vigorous south moving Arctic fronts would affect Tmax & Tmin at the more numerous weather stations in the south differently tho, is a mystery.

Maybe, but I tend to think not; my impression is that the diurnal temp diff is generally assumed to be a function of the thermodynamic inertia of the atmosphere - and that's why it's been thought to be an indicator of AGW vs. solar forcings; differences in atmospheric CO2 concentrations would be expected to show up as a signal in diurnal temp diff, while variations in solar forcing would not.

I think the hypothesis would be similar with colder vs. warmer air migrating further North or South - unless the _composition_ of these arctic vs. sub-arctic airmasses and their bulk thermodynamic properties are different, like in the case of changing solar forcing one would not expect to see diurnal atmospheric heating and cooling _rates_ change markedly - Tmax and Tmin would simply be shifted higher or lower by the same amount, with no significant delta in Tdiff.

But what do I know - still, I'm no less puzzled than the Authors themselves, it seems. If the explanation were that obvious, I'd have expected them to offer it in their paper rather than saying it's "not understood."

[Teddy R]

Wallop10 wrote:

<quoted text>
We have an energy crisis for the long term.
It's true, though that the recent glut of natural gas changed the market assumptions of energy prices when fixed investments were made here.
And it's also true, that the real problem with companies like Solyndra was that China started heavily subsidizing their local companies, pricing them out of the market.

Mankind has had a continuous energy crisis throughout human history.

Wait until either a) Saudi Arabia falls into chaos when the last of the current octogenarian generation of brothers/heirs to the Throne die off in quick succession, and/or b) shocking truth about Saudi's TRUE remaining recoverable reserves (one of the truly great secrets in the world) is revelaed: http://www.aaee.at/2009-IAEE/uploads/presenta...

Talk about changing market assumptions - whooo-eee! And potentially overnight!

Sporty times ahead ...

[gcaveman1]

Jonah_Galt wrote:

<quoted text>
Dr. Biden?
Doctor Biden is Biden's wife. Sometimes listening to VP Biden I wonder, if he graduated from a high school..
But on a good note - he provides us with fun and entertainment.

I like ole Joe.

[gcaveman1]

PHD wrote:

Just fallow the money and you will see the truth.

Tell us about this money.

Do you have pictures of Michael Mann's villa in the south of Italy?

Do you have a picture of Trenberth gettin into his Maserati?

Any real proof at all that these guys are getting rich off their "scam"?

I didn't think so.