Single-payer bill H.R. 676 isn't socialism

Full story: Newsday 26
I was surprised during a recent conference for care- givers, when several professionals who should have known better, asked me if a "single-payer" health insurance system is "socialized medicine." The quick answer: No. Full Story
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a working health provider

Saint Paul, MN

#1 Apr 16, 2009
When the "single payer" is the government, and not only pays for the services, but also dictates dictates the care that can be offered to the consumer as is the case with Medicare as well as the proposed health insurance system it CLEARLY falls into the definition of socialism.
Curly

Howe, TX

#2 Apr 16, 2009
No the medicare for ever one is not in its self socializes medicine. It is the first step in that direction. The estimated cost of the system, 7% for employers and 2% for employees is vastly underestimated. Check the estimates of medicare before it was inacted and what it acually cost. If the government is going to be the single payer why not would it also be the insrance company also? That would force the comercial companies out of business. Some but not all of the employees of the insurance companies could go to work for the government insurance companie but the rest would be out of work. Being the only payer the government would, after some time, set the doctors and hospital fees. This would force doctors out of the profession and hospitals to close. The government then would open the same hospital and be the single owner of it. Also as a single payer the government could then tell the drug manufactors what they could sell their products reucing their profits and research. I think you can see where this could lead!

“Liberals: America's Cancer”

Since: Dec 07

Baldwin, NY

#3 Apr 16, 2009
Yes it is.

Just because some jerk from Newsday say's it isn't, doesn't make it so.
Saul Friedman

Annapolis, MD

#5 Apr 17, 2009
So is the current, insurance-based free market system working?
Anny

Denver, CO

#6 Apr 18, 2009
Saul Friedman wrote:
So is the current, insurance-based free market system working?
I actually don't think that is the point. Most people in the US agree that our health care system is broken and needs to be fixed, but the difference is in how it should be fixed.

I have no real issue with single payer, but I do find it worrysome that the government would be the single payer just because I haven't seen it as being terribly effective, or efficient about anything. But, that is just my opinion.
Jerry Schreibersdorf

AOL

#7 Apr 19, 2009
I have been saying this for many years, especially when Hillary was trying to do something in the early nineties.

Her problem was that she was actually trying to get a toe in the door, with the 'best yet to come', the proverbial slippery slope.

she had to fight the 'Socialism' pejorative. Could it be that Obama have the same intention?

I beleive that in this case, the end does justify the means.
George

Windsor, MO

#8 Apr 20, 2009
You have to trust the government to run such a program. I don't trust them to run anything, least of which is medical care. The less government involvement the better. Please remember they have 71 congressmen and 23 senators on the banking and finance committee and we still had a mega disaster in the financial community. I call this government undercide when Clinton allowed Freddie and Fannie them to hold just 2.5% of capital to back their investments, vs 10% for banks. I believe thats a 4:1 radio in favor of government control. The damn socialist party new this was coming. They want depends so they can provide. You exist for the government. I want the government to exist for the people. As Forset Gump says "stupid is as stupid does"
east meadow jets

Fort Bragg, NC

#9 Apr 20, 2009
who ever wrote this article has no idea about costs, or responsibibily, or what a government is

single payer (by the government) IS SOCIALIZED MEDICINE, period

the average medical cost per person is well over 10-15k per year.....this average is for the 300 million population that we have and goes from the 'zeros'(meaning zero cost healthy 20 somerthings) to the "100k's+" (meaning the sickly (asthma, diabetes, cancer, alsheimers, MS, parkins, hiv/aids, etc). SO, to treat (on average) the 300 million people in the usa , it will cost at least 4-7 trillion PER YEAR, now take that and apply it to the 100 million tax payers and you get a ANNUAL COST of 40-70 THOUSAND dollars PER TAXPAYER....can you afford that??????

here are some facts:
france's health care is BANKRUPT
england health care does DENY care to smokers, old people, and the obese (hmm the GOVERNMENT telling WHO can get or not get service)
canada's health care is currently starting to PRIVATIZE

if the government can control your health,,,,they will have control of you
Mike Oxbig

North Webster, IN

#10 Apr 20, 2009
don't worry.

when we finally get a look at obama's long form birth certificate and he's thrown out of office, we can repeal this effort to destroy our health care system.

remember: obama shows our top secret cia interrogation memos to our enemies, but has teams of lawyers hiding his own birth certificate.
Shlomz K

Bronx, NY

#11 Apr 20, 2009
I personally have been arguing that everybody should be on Medicare and we could abolish all of the current health insurers and their endless, and mindless, bureaucracies geared mainly to maiximizing their companies' profits. This, of course, comes primarily from denying services.

Unfortunately, reading the comments shows that most people still believe the iron law of medicine: "A single payor = Socialized Medicine." And, with the assistance of the at-risk insurance companies, there will be more and more repitition of this law and no will believe otherwise, alas.

So, we, unfortunately, will never get out of this conundrum. We are stuck with the immutable law that there must be insurance companies and these companies have one and one goal: just as banks and cereal manufacturers and car makers, and others, exist to make profits (which I might add is not a bad thing), so do we health insurance entities exist to make maiximal profits and to especially pay our executives handsomely as other businesses do.

Maybe we can attack the issue by working to eliminate profit making health insurers. When the pressure is on them, perhaps the companies will voluntarily fold and leave the health insurance business altogether and then society can once again propose a one-poayor system.

Hey, we can hope, can't we?
Terry Flowers

United States

#13 Apr 25, 2014
http://current.hc-disconnects.com/2013/12/03/...

It really doesn't matter if it is socialized medicine or not. What matters is that it would save 98% of Americans money. The increase in taxes to fund HR 676 would be less than the premiums that we currently pay. HR 676 would provide comprehensive medical, dental and vision care. No copays, no deductibles, not out of pocket medical bills. No more bankruptcies/foreclosures due to medical bills.

We have a number of governmental services that could be called socialism...public schools, libraries, roads/highways/bridges, etc.

The best way to provide healthcare financing is to establish one large risk group with everyone paying into according to their ability. HR 676 would establish that.
Opinion

Interior, SD

#14 Apr 26, 2014
east meadow jets wrote:
who ever wrote this article has no idea about costs, or responsibibily, or what a government is
single payer (by the government) IS SOCIALIZED MEDICINE, period
the average medical cost per person is well over 10-15k per year.....this average is for the 300 million population that we have and goes from the 'zeros'(meaning zero cost healthy 20 somerthings) to the "100k's+" (meaning the sickly (asthma, diabetes, cancer, alsheimers, MS, parkins, hiv/aids, etc). SO, to treat (on average) the 300 million people in the usa , it will cost at least 4-7 trillion PER YEAR, now take that and apply it to the 100 million tax payers and you get a ANNUAL COST of 40-70 THOUSAND dollars PER TAXPAYER....can you afford that??????
here are some facts:
france's health care is BANKRUPT
england health care does DENY care to smokers, old people, and the obese (hmm the GOVERNMENT telling WHO can get or not get service)
canada's health care is currently starting to PRIVATIZE
if the government can control your health,,,,they will have control of you
"average medical cost per person is well over 10-15k per year"

I don't believe that statement is correct.

Back in 1970s, the United States looked a lot like other countries when it came to health care spending. In 1980, we spent $1,110 per person on health care, which worked out to about 9.2 percent of Gross Domestic Product. But in the 1980s, health-care costs in the United States began growing much faster than in other countries,.

The average spend nation wide today is around $6800.

A Single Payer System for all necessary and emergency healthcare funded in a manner so that everyone pays something would be the best bang for the dollar.

How it is set up is open for final determination. There is plenty of Single Payer Plans in place that we could pick and chose the best ideas from or design our own.
Cordwainer Trout

Elizabethtown, KY

#15 Apr 26, 2014
Obama and other Marxists have become better used car salespeople, than anyone ever in human history.
Opinion

Interior, SD

#16 Apr 26, 2014
[QUOTE who="
here are some facts:
france's health care is BANKRUPT
england health care does DENY care to smokers, old people, and the obese (hmm the GOVERNMENT telling WHO can get or not get service)
canada's health care is currently starting to PRIVATIZE
if the government can control your health,,,,they will have control of you
[/QUOTE]

Comparing some other country's Single Payer System is a poor example.

How a Single Payer System is set up is the key. What is paid for and covered will be different.

Whether it covers only necessary and emergency care is quite different than covering all care.

Whether there is a co-pay of a set amount is another factor.

How it is funded is another factor.

Broad wide claims don't necessary prove to be true. It all depends on the design of a Single Payer System.
Cordwainer Trout

Elizabethtown, KY

#17 Apr 26, 2014
The arguments you hear here are basically "we can tweak Communism and finally make it work." It doesn't matter, that these power mad monsters thinking they know how to run your life better have outright murdered more people for efficiency's sake in the last century, than all the wars in the last century. And, they did it out of their concern for people.

But, they'll do it different this time... right? The scum Democrat bureaucracies already kill off non-profitable people in the conservatorship programs by manipulating medical care, but they'll be able to control themselves under Socialist Medicine... right?

Bullshit! Marxists are the worst people on the planet.
Opinion

Interior, SD

#18 Apr 26, 2014
Cordwainer Trout wrote:
The arguments you hear here are basically "we can tweak Communism and finally make it work." It doesn't matter, that these power mad monsters thinking they know how to run your life better have outright murdered more people for efficiency's sake in the last century, than all the wars in the last century. And, they did it out of their concern for people.
But, they'll do it different this time... right? The scum Democrat bureaucracies already kill off non-profitable people in the conservatorship programs by manipulating medical care, but they'll be able to control themselves under Socialist Medicine... right?
Bullshit! Marxists are the worst people on the planet.
All this has zero to do with communism. zero nothing.

Educate your self before opening your mouth and making a fool out of yourself.

Do you use:
Public roads.
public schools
public municipal water and sewer systems
do you believe in a police force
do you believe in a army
do you believe in State Colleges
do you believe in --- what the hell is it worth it ?
Cordwainer Trout

Elizabethtown, KY

#19 Apr 26, 2014
Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
All this has zero to do with communism. zero nothing.
Educate your self before opening your mouth and making a fool out of yourself.
Do you use:
Public roads.
public schools
public municipal water and sewer systems
do you believe in a police force
do you believe in a army
do you believe in State Colleges
do you believe in --- what the hell is it worth it ?
It has everything to do with Communism and the mind that embraces it. Give a Socialist an inch and they will become a Communist. Communists will sell and have sold your birthrights right from under you in their long term plans to impose more "we know what's good for you" control. They perverted the democratic system in the US to leave us with a system that will not respond to people's actual needs and wants, nor their abilities to self rule. They discuss and implement more militaristic police scenarios every day; only a blind fool would deny it. That, sir, is how Communism has operated since its inception.

Misuse of our government process to deny discussion and any compromise, or oppositional input to a health control system of over 1700 pages nobody ever read, but was written by secretive committees... was outrageous. Every day we see how indeed that system was set up to have government tell you and I what health care we needed. That is totally different than a slab of asphalt for your convenience. Communism denies a democratic process. That is what your Marxist tyrant Democrats and their compromised Republicans have allowed. They have destroyed a great country.

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”—John F. Kennedy
Opinion

Interior, SD

#20 Apr 26, 2014
Cordwainer Trout wrote:
<quoted text>
It has everything to do with Communism and the mind that embraces it. Give a Socialist an inch and they will become a Communist. Communists will sell and have sold your birthrights right from under you in their long term plans to impose more "we know what's good for you" control. They perverted the democratic system in the US to leave us with a system that will not respond to people's actual needs and wants, nor their abilities to self rule. They discuss and implement more militaristic police scenarios every day; only a blind fool would deny it. That, sir, is how Communism has operated since its inception.
Misuse of our government process to deny discussion and any compromise, or oppositional input to a health control system of over 1700 pages nobody ever read, but was written by secretive committees... was outrageous. Every day we see how indeed that system was set up to have government tell you and I what health care we needed. That is totally different than a slab of asphalt for your convenience. Communism denies a democratic process. That is what your Marxist tyrant Democrats and their compromised Republicans have allowed. They have destroyed a great country.
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”—John F. Kennedy
Actually it was around 900 pages which I read prior to the ACA being voted on. So did every elected Senator and Congressman who wished to. It played good to claim that it was 10 thousand pages long and no one read it. The ACA was discussed and amended in open committee meetings that you could have attended. There were over 200 amendments proposed and voted on. 169 Republican amendments were adopted in committee along with 5 or 6 Democrat amendments.

There was no secret committees - no secret hearing - and the bill was available for anyone who wished to read it prior to it being voted on. There was no Republican compromising as all Republicans voted against the ACA bill when it hit the floor.

If you are going to post at least post the truth and not some wild accusation that have nothing to back them up.

Just because you heard something flying around the political echo chamber or on some whacko talk show don't make it true.

Be smart enough to check out the facts before becoming a sucker for every lie that comes along.
Opinion

Interior, SD

#21 Apr 26, 2014
Cordwainer Trout wrote:
Obama and other Marxists have become better used car salespeople, than anyone ever in human history.
At least have some concept of what you are talking about.

Marxism is a philosophical set of beliefs set out by one man and a few of his colleagues that sets out a plan for reconfiguring the structure of markets to best favor the working class. Socialism is a set of loose economic ideals designed around managing all or part of an economy through a government administrated by it's citizens. Communism is a political, philosophical and economic ideology that in theory is meant to establish a classless and stateless society but in practice tends to result in totalitarianism. Totalitarianism is a style of rule characterized by unquestioned central authority usually centered around 1 individual and 1 political party. They are all distinct concepts that have famously overlapped throughout history but it would be foolish to suppose that they are synonymous with each other.
Cordwainer Trout

Elizabethtown, KY

#22 Apr 26, 2014
Opinion wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually it was around 900 pages which I read prior to the ACA being voted on. So did every elected Senator and Congressman who wished to. It played good to claim that it was 10 thousand pages long and no one read it. The ACA was discussed and amended in open committee meetings that you could have attended. There were over 200 amendments proposed and voted on. 169 Republican amendments were adopted in committee along with 5 or 6 Democrat amendments.
There was no secret committees - no secret hearing - and the bill was available for anyone who wished to read it prior to it being voted on. There was no Republican compromising as all Republicans voted against the ACA bill when it hit the floor.
If you are going to post at least post the truth and not some wild accusation that have nothing to back them up.
Just because you heard something flying around the political echo chamber or on some whacko talk show don't make it true.
Be smart enough to check out the facts before becoming a sucker for every lie that comes along.
Those Democrats publicly and on record saying that people could read it after it was passed must have been lying, according to you. The lack of the promised time frame for public perusal and reading must have been imagined. You must be special.

The only reason it passed was the aberration of a Democrat Senate and Democrat House. It can and will go the other way.

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