Nurse anesthetists aren't the same as anesthesiologists

Sep 21, 2010 Full story: The Baltimore Sun 119

Catherine Gilliss's primary point in her op-ed is that nurse anesthetists are a less expensive alternative to physician anesthesiologists in providing anesthesia.

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stanley

Washington Court House, OH

#42 Dec 24, 2012
Just hope you realize what opt out means....you do not. State laws determine supervision, opt out is for the signing of a chart for medicare payment. Period. So if you want an informed opinion go to someone other then the 20 second wonder. Nice try, learn then speak.
anesthesiaMD

Pittsburgh, PA

#43 Dec 31, 2012
Stanley (and other nurses) are correct when they quote regulations that technically allow nurses (crna) to administer anesthetics without the supervision and knowledge of an anesthesiologist. Yes, a nurse (crna) may be cheaper than an anesthesiologist,, but do you want to risk your life on anesthesia administered by a nurse? The crna may be fast-talkers, just as used-car salesman are. But a nurse with 20 months of nurse (and I repeat nurse) anesthesia training is never equivilent to the experience and medical knowledge of an anesthesiologist. When a crna can answer the question: "are crna (supervised or not) just as safe as anesthesiologist-only care?" with a "yes", I know that they are either lying or that they do not care one bit about patient safety..
stanley

Avon, IN

#44 Jan 1, 2013
Any proof? No? I can quote multiple studies showing equality of outcomes. The only fast talking used car salesperson would be anesthesia MD.
I am not speaking of "technacaliy allowed" any more then the law. "Allows" an md to provide anesthesia., but consistant quality safe care. It is not rare, it is not unsafe.
johnny boy

Bloomington, IN

#46 Jan 8, 2013
What's "MDA"?
stanley

Washington Court House, OH

#47 Jan 9, 2013
Md anesthesiologist
johnny boy

Bloomington, IN

#48 Jan 9, 2013
Oh, ok, thanks! Seems like an oddly redundant term. Why not just Physician? I assume there are a lot of DO and MBChB Anesthesiologists also.
stanley

Washington Court House, OH

#49 Jan 9, 2013
Why ent? Obgyn? It describes what type of physician.
Wow

Euless, TX

#50 Jan 10, 2013
stanley wrote:
Md anesthesiologist
Is a DO anesthesiologist a "DOA"
Lol! Get it? Just kidding.

“MEDICATION”

Since: Mar 09

Fairfax, VA

#51 Jan 10, 2013
They still have to go to grad school: http://pa.drjobs.us/AnesthesiologyPA.php
johnny boy

Bloomington, IN

#52 Jan 10, 2013
stanley wrote:
Why ent? Obgyn? It describes what type of physician.
Sounds more like MDENT or MDOBGyn to my ears I guess. I always figured "Anesthesiologist" was like "Surgeon", or "Psychiatrist"- it is what it is- either you are or you aren't.
stanley

Washington Court House, OH

#53 Jan 11, 2013
johnny boy wrote:
<quoted text>
Sounds more like MDENT or MDOBGyn to my ears I guess. I always figured "Anesthesiologist" was like "Surgeon", or "Psychiatrist"- it is what it is- either you are or you aren't.
Well for surgeon what kind? ENT, Ortho. Lots of abbreviations attatched.
johnny boy

Bloomington, IN

#54 Jan 11, 2013
LOL! Haha!! I can tell my point is clearly made. Signing off, cheers!
stanley

Washington Court House, OH

#55 Jan 12, 2013
Kaaaaaayyy?
LOL

Pittsburgh, PA

#57 Jan 20, 2013
Just read this on a break..........A patient in the holding area asked that the anesthesiologist perform her care instead of a crna and this was agreed to. the unhappy crna told the patient: "see if your "ologist" is there when you need to pee or need something for pain"..the staff aneshesiologist overheard and interjected: "finally, I now know what the crna are for: bedpans and pain pills"..the crna sulked and slinked away.
stanley

Louisville, KY

#58 Jan 22, 2013
The ologist must secure a chair or wield a wicked pen.
greenmachine

Bartlesville, OK

#59 Jan 22, 2013
Wow wrote:
Stanley,

You can become a nurse anesthetist with a 2 year associate's nursing degree from a community college, online bridge-RN, 1 year working as a nurse taking orders from doctors in an ICU, and then off to a CRNA-mill for education, where one year is spent in the classroom, and the last year is in the operating room.

That doesn't inspire much confidence in someone who is taking care of you during the intense stresses of surgery.

Sorry, but I am going to choose the doctor who survived the rigors of all 12 years of medical training versus the community college-trained nurse.
Sounds like you really don't have a clue
RFA

Vancouver, Canada

#61 Feb 8, 2013
In Canada we have Anesthesia Assistants - this is the best system. For some reason CRNAs have managed to over inflate their egos and gotten into a pissing match with doctors. Canadian Anesthesia assistants (often RTs) are great, they are helpful, polite and most importantly know their boundaries and limits of knowledge.

The whole CRNA thing in the US is weird - next thing you know para-legals are going to start infighting with lawyers and dental hygienists are going to start to claim to be able to be independent dentists.

Im all for having supportive assistance for anesthesiologists - surgeons have scrub nurses why shouldn't anesthesiologists get assistance too? But why this inflated sense of self worth and dangerous overstepping of boundaries?
RFA

Vancouver, Canada

#62 Feb 8, 2013
The other goofy things is this the absurd "studies" that are quoted saying CRNAs have the same results. This just proves the lack of any formal education/background in research or critical appraisal of literature.

If CRNAs and Anesthesiologists have the same error rate that is even better reason to limit pull back on the reins of CRNAs?

Why you may ask?

Well if doctors are managing all of the complex cases with high risk patients and CRNAs who are managing ASA 1s and 2s are getting the same complication rate then SHAME ON THEM!!! that is despicable!
stanley

Louisville, KY

#63 Feb 10, 2013
well who says CRNA's are managing only ASA 1 and 2? Did you think the studies are weighted to reflect acuity. There does seem to be an inability to critically assess research.
RFA

Vancouver, Canada

#65 Feb 13, 2013
stanley wrote:
well who says CRNA's are managing only ASA 1 and 2? Did you think the studies are weighted to reflect acuity. There does seem to be an inability to critically assess research.
They most certainly are not managing the same level of acuity on average. Most of the studies I have seen do not accurately weight the numbers based on the complexity of cases.

Ever seen a CRNA do a cardiac case from start to finish where shit hit the fan? Im not saying it never happens, but it sure as heck shouldn't!

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