Hargrove penalty: NFL now discredits video

Jul 7, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: ESPN

Green Bay Packers defensive end Anthony Hargrove has insisted on multiple occasion s that a key piece of evidence against him in the New Orleans Saints bounty issue is a case of mistaken identity.

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GBPfan

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#21
Jul 8, 2012
 

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ezg357 wrote:
They havnt show the evidence All they showed so far is one inident that doesnt matter at all to the case. I guess he thinks Goodell suspended these guys without just cause. Hey why not suspend any defensive player or any other of the leagues players without just cause. WOW
Exactly. Why not?! If Goodell is allowed to suspend players with little or no evidence for as long as he wants, what is to prevent him from doing it the next time when it involves another team? I'm not defending the Saints or any particular person or player. I'm defending the integrity of the process. How are notions of fairness, justice and due process protected by the people that say: "Goodell must have a good reason, so just shut up and take it up the rear!" Haven't you been paying attention to Goodell over the years? Can you honestly tell me that you believe he has been the model of fairness and consistency when handing out punishment? It's more than reasonable for people to want to see the justification for any Goodell decision. This matter will remain controversial until he does.

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#22
Jul 8, 2012
 

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GBPfan wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe the FACTS! And these are the FACTS as we know them with regard to Anthony Hargrove:
He didn't touch any player alledgedly targeted, like Favre or Warner, on the plays they were injured AND the NFL was wrong when it claimed it knew he said "pay me the money."
It looks to me that YOU believe rumors and accusations. You can spare me guesses about why Goodell has revealed so little evidence. I don't care why he hasn't. It's a fact that he hasn't and your guess about why is irrelevant. I'm not going to ASSUME that Goodell has evidence simply because you have a theory about why Goodell won't share it. More importantly, even if Goodell has some evidence, I have no idea what that evidence indicates about the involvement of any single player in the pay for performance program. I don't pretend that I know things I don't. I will leave that to people like you. I will base my beliefs on the FACTS as I know them to be. You can base your beliefs on who you WANT to believe. I don't do that.
Fact : He lied to the NFL. case closed.You can call it performance but it was pay to hurt players, thats dirty and unsportsman like, get real and call it what it was.They put bounties on players to injure them.They have 20,000 pieces of evidence why in the world would they show it to you?

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#23
Jul 8, 2012
 

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GBPfan wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree. I'm looking forward to the day that Roger Goodell becomes a man. When will you?
The Saints did not act like men, if you have to cheat to win, you are not a man.

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#24
Jul 8, 2012
 

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slammin sam wrote:
I am a Saint's fan from back in the BAG Days.Ain't sayin' dat they are all right & everybody else is wrong, but look @ the whole picture every team in the NFL have been doing it for years!!!! Everybody knows it but don't admit it.
Geaux SAINTS!!!!!!!
That doest make it right.
GBPfan

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#25
Jul 8, 2012
 

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packluv1 wrote:
<quoted text> Fact : He lied to the NFL. case closed.You can call it performance but it was pay to hurt players, thats dirty and unsportsman like, get real and call it what it was.They put bounties on players to injure them.They have 20,000 pieces of evidence why in the world would they show it to you?
Thanks for looking at the "whole picture" for me. All I have to do is ignore the FACT that no evidence shows that Hargrove paid anybody to hurt other players, All I have to do is ignore the FACT that other players are punished more for all kinds of things that are much, much worse than football players hitting other football players.

Don't be offended when I refuse to accept your proclamation of: "Case closed." When, and if, Goodell ever shares any evidence that proves that any Saint "put bounties on players to injure them" that only opens the case to start the discussion about whether Hargrove, Fujita, Vilma and Smith were one of those players. Then we can finally open the case on what is "fair" when handing out suspensions. No matter how much YOU want the case closed, that simply won't happen unless and until many, many questioned are asked and answered.
GBPmies

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#26
Jul 8, 2012
 

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ezg357 wrote:
<quoted text>You little runt What a man does is admit to his wrong doings.
LOL!
What is with all the name calling ezg?

I thought you would never do such a thing?

Tisk tisk. You just whined up a storm about it on another thread pretending to be all high and mighty, now look at you! Every time I turn around you are making nothing but rude an insulting statements, facts are facts! LOL!
GBPfan

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#27
Jul 8, 2012
 

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packluv1 wrote:
<quoted text>The Saints did not act like men, if you have to cheat to win, you are not a man.
Can you ever discuss anything using facts instead making conclusory statements? You can say things like "they paid to hurt players" or "they cheated" or any other broad, vague proclamation that is not evidence and fails to prove anything. Reasonable people will judge each player on the proof presented as to that player. Don't let it upset you so much that there are reasonable, intelligent, fair people in the world. We don't have to think like you!
GBPfan

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#28
Jul 8, 2012
 

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packluv1 wrote:
<quoted text>That doest make it right.
I think we all can agree that Goodell has authority to punish in an arbitrary manner with little to no proof and that he can issue unfair punishment. I do agree with you that it doesn't make it right!

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#29
Jul 8, 2012
 

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GBPfan wrote:
<quoted text>
I am basing it on the overall picture. The overall picture shows me a pay for performance program conducted by the coaches and done with the knowledge and approval of management of the Saints. The "overall picture" shows me nothing about the specific involvement of ANY Saints player. So naturally I question why 4 players are receiving such riduculously out of proportion punishment compared to;
1. Their teammates
2. Players from other teams that have IN FACT injured other players with illegal hits. Keep in mind that NONE of the suspended Saints players injured any of the players that were alledgedly targeted for injury.
3. Players, coaches, and management that have cheated by using PEDs, illegally recording other teams, going over the salary caps, etc.
4. Players that have done worse than hitting people on the football field, including rape, assault, negligent homocide, DUI, domestic violence, use and distribution of drugs, etc.
You seem to have a very limited view when you look at the "picture." I'm looking at it ALL, from the lack of evidence against these individuals, whether the evidence matches the allegations, to the overall fairness of the punishment when compared to other action taken by Goodell in this situation and other situations.
Lack of evidence? You have seen the 20,000 pieces of it? Your looking at it all? This is Hargrove 3rd suspension, he should get 8 games or more for repeat offenders to the rules. This will be 30 games in his career. If he was in the private sector he would have been fired from his job.

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GBPfan wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for looking at the "whole picture" for me. All I have to do is ignore the FACT that no evidence shows that Hargrove paid anybody to hurt other players, All I have to do is ignore the FACT that other players are punished more for all kinds of things that are much, much worse than football players hitting other football players.
Don't be offended when I refuse to accept your proclamation of: "Case closed." When, and if, Goodell ever shares any evidence that proves that any Saint "put bounties on players to injure them" that only opens the case to start the discussion about whether Hargrove, Fujita, Vilma and Smith were one of those players. Then we can finally open the case on what is "fair" when handing out suspensions. No matter how much YOU want the case closed, that simply won't happen unless and until many, many questioned are asked and answered.
They have 20,000 pieces of evidence proving the ran a bounty system.

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#31
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GBPfan wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you ever discuss anything using facts instead making conclusory statements? You can say things like "they paid to hurt players" or "they cheated" or any other broad, vague proclamation that is not evidence and fails to prove anything. Reasonable people will judge each player on the proof presented as to that player. Don't let it upset you so much that there are reasonable, intelligent, fair people in the world. We don't have to think like you!
Cry all you want they got busted for a bounty system in the NFL.:Against the rules. Just like Hargroves drug use: against the rules.

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slammin sam wrote:
I am a Saint's fan from back in the BAG Days.Ain't sayin' dat they are all right & everybody else is wrong, but look @ the whole picture every team in the NFL have been doing it for years!!!! Everybody knows it but don't admit it.
Geaux SAINTS!!!!!!!
I dont believe youre analysis.Every team does not have a bounty system.Thats just an excuse for having it.Our coach Leslie Frazier is a deeply religious person and im sure hes not coaching players to hurt people.Im sure back in the sixties players went after an injured player if they knew he had a bad ankle or something like that but times have changed.You cant have players suing for injuries and at the same time have a team with a bounty system.You got caught so just pay youre dues and get over it.Goodell has every right to suspend them.
GBPfan

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packluv1 wrote:
<quoted text>Lack of evidence? You have seen the 20,000 pieces of it? Your looking at it all? This is Hargrove 3rd suspension, he should get 8 games or more for repeat offenders to the rules. This will be 30 games in his career. If he was in the private sector he would have been fired from his job.
You act as if a lot of evidence means good evidence. It means NOTHING about the involvement of Anthony Hargrove, but you don't care about that. It is a crappy reason to support what you want to believe and "crappy" is good enough for you. I get it. Why do you keep whining about there being intelligent, patient, reasonable, and fair people in the world? I told you, we don't think like you. All the whining in the world will never make me think like you. But you won't stop the whining, will you?

BTW Anthony Hargrove is in the private sector. That is just another fact that is obviously unimportant to you. Of course the people that start by believing whomever they wish to believe, never care about facts.
GBPfan

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packluv1 wrote:
<quoted text> They have 20,000 pieces of evidence proving the ran a bounty system.
As I said, there is proof there was a "pay for performance" program. The coaches have admitted they ran it. So I'm not surprised there is a ton of evidence against them. I'm still waiting to see the evidence that shows what involvement, if any, the suspended players had in the program. So far we know that Hargrove didn't injure Favre or Warner or any of the other players alledgedly targeted AND we know the NFL is wrong about what it said he did.

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GBPfan wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree. I'm looking forward to the day that Roger Goodell becomes a man. When will you?
You just want Hargrove to play if he was guilty or not.He wasnt even on the Packers team and you knew about the suspension when you signed him.We want Jerome Simpson to play too because Goodell is being unfair.
GBPfan

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packluv1 wrote:
<quoted text> Cry all you want they got busted for a bounty system in the NFL.:Against the rules. Just like Hargroves drug use: against the rules.
According to the NFL Hargrove didn't get busted for a bounty system. According to the NFL Hargrove didn't even get busted for paying into any program whether you desccribe it as a "bounty" program or "pay for perfoemance" program. According to the NFL Hargrove was busted for "lying" and now, according to the NFL, the NFL was wrong about the basis for believing Hargrove lied.

On the other hand, according to Roger Goodell, and the statements he made (apparently without NFL approval) Hargove paid into and was paid from a program that was designed to reward people for injuring targeted players. Roger Goodell has obviously made you believe that crap. As it turns out the official allegations by the NFL lack credibility, let alone the slanderous accusations made by Roger Goodell.

Cry all you want, Roger Goodell will be criticized and sued unless and until his accusations against these players are supported by actual evidence.

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GBPfan wrote:
<quoted text>
As I said, there is proof there was a "pay for performance" program. The coaches have admitted they ran it. So I'm not surprised there is a ton of evidence against them. I'm still waiting to see the evidence that shows what involvement, if any, the suspended players had in the program. So far we know that Hargrove didn't injure Favre or Warner or any of the other players alledgedly targeted AND we know the NFL is wrong about what it said he did.
It wasnt about paying for tackles or interceptions.It was paying for cartoffs off the field ,injuries.Taking players out of the game.Whether they achieved it or not is irrelevant.
GBPfan

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Jul 8, 2012
 

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Bleeds Purple wrote:
<quoted text>Goodell has every right to suspend them.
And the players have every right to challenge those suspensions. And the media and fans have every right to criticize Roger Goodell for his handling of the situation and/or the lack of proof and/or the unfairness of any punishments imposed.
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Bleeds Purple wrote:
<quoted text>You just want Hargrove to play if he was guilty or not.He wasnt even on the Packers team and you knew about the suspension when you signed him.We want Jerome Simpson to play too because Goodell is being unfair.
No, I just want fair and reasonable punishment based upon the facts. I criticized Goodell in the Starcaps case also. You know why? Because the players explanation of the use of the Starcaps was reasonable, consistent, credible and the NFL helped to create confusion about whether it's use was banned. THAT is about "fairness" to me! No team benefits if Goodell is allowed to punish anybody for any amount of time without proof or fairness.
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Bleeds Purple wrote:
<quoted text>It wasnt about paying for tackles or interceptions.It was paying for cartoffs off the field ,injuries.Taking players out of the game.Whether they achieved it or not is irrelevant.
First, "fairness" of punishment is ALWAYS relevant. Players on other teams have sometimes injured players with illegal hits. The most I've ever seen Goodell give for a suspension is 2 games. You are claiming these Saints players, that didn't injure any of the targeted players, should get much longer suspensions for betting on injury than the suspensions received by players that did IN FACT injure players with dirty hits. It certainly is reasonable to disagree.

Second, where is the evidence that any of the suspended players did what you say? The players say they didn't pay to injure targeted players. 20,000 pages of evidence, including ledgers kept by the coaches, should contain something if players were targeted. So be patient. If what you say is true, why are you so worried about the players making a challenge? Are you worried because Goodell hasn't been able to produce that evidence? I think maybe you should be.

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