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Since: Dec 06

Spring Hill, FL

#62 Nov 11, 2012
Purple Faithful wrote:
<quoted text>lol, no it isn't. Some do claim it is the second most important position on offense, but it depends on what your team is designed to do. Certainly isn't second most important on offense for a running based team. Second most important position is considered by "everyone" to be your pass rushers. I mean, what left tackle approaches Reggie White in importance?
Just repeating what the pro people say.Guess one could argue that all day.
While I make up my mind on Ponder,I would like to see the Vikings go all out on the play book pass wise.4 and 5 wr sets,we stink with just 2 out there,I want to see some no huddle etc.We need to go over the top a lot more but we probably need all our stinko receivers and hope one bust off a 65 yd catch and run.4 receivers and a TE chip and catch to get Rudolph going again.We marched the field non stop against SF,maybe they weren't ready but I haven't sold out on Ponder,I have on the OC though.D wise we can't stop anybody all of a sudden,seems Cook went down and couple that with teams are now running right through are DT's and it's killing us and opening up the passing attack.

“Lying scumbags need not apply”

Since: Jan 08

Yorktown, VA

#63 Nov 11, 2012
Purple Faithful wrote:
<quoted text>lol, no it isn't. Some do claim it is the second most important position on offense, but it depends on what your team is designed to do. Certainly isn't second most important on offense for a running based team. Second most important position is considered by "everyone" to be your pass rushers. I mean, what left tackle approaches Reggie White in importance?
By your own logic if pass rushers are second most important wouldn't that automatically make pass defenders #3? Vikings have a pass rushing line. Vikings are top 10 in sacks so adding a DT would have made strong unit stronger at the expense of making a weak O line weaker.

If you had your way the Vikings would end the year leading is sacks but with no QB as they would have all been pummeled to the IR by then.

“Zimmer Turner Overdrive”

Since: Jan 07

Minneapolis

#64 Nov 12, 2012
Stubby wrote:
<quoted text>
By your own logic if pass rushers are second most important wouldn't that automatically make pass defenders #3? Vikings have a pass rushing line. Vikings are top 10 in sacks so adding a DT would have made strong unit stronger at the expense of making a weak O line weaker.
If you had your way the Vikings would end the year leading is sacks but with no QB as they would have all been pummeled to the IR by then.
Lots of teams have less talent on the offensive line, stubby. Giants won two super bowls with less talent (based on draft position) than the Vikings. Pittsburgh won 3 super bowls with less offensive line talent than the Vikings do now. Green Bay won theirs with less offensive line talent ( then started drafting high o-linemen after they won ). Really, I'm hard pressed to find a team with as high of a point total on offensive linemen than the Vikings that has won a Super Bowl recently. Pretty sure you need to go back 10 years. As for Fusco, keep in mind offensivelinemen get developed. See: Sullivan, John. Relax on the o-linemen, they haven't helped san fran win anything. Getting a DT that demands a double on runs & passes because of his strength & quickness opens up blitzes, jared allen, & the center of the defense. I'm talking about adding one defender. you wanted a LT, now a RG, & a LG. I assume you are unhappy with RT as well. I wanted one guy & still want one guy. Call it the "Tuck" rule, as in Justin Tuck. When Justin Tuck smashes the other team's Tom Brady, your Eli Manning is enough to win.

“Zimmer Turner Overdrive”

Since: Jan 07

Minneapolis

#65 Nov 12, 2012
Childress wrote:
<quoted text>Just repeating what the pro people say.Guess one could argue that all day.
While I make up my mind on Ponder,I would like to see the Vikings go all out on the play book pass wise.4 and 5 wr sets,we stink with just 2 out there,I want to see some no huddle etc.We need to go over the top a lot more but we probably need all our stinko receivers and hope one bust off a 65 yd catch and run.4 receivers and a TE chip and catch to get Rudolph going again.We marched the field non stop against SF,maybe they weren't ready but I haven't sold out on Ponder,I have on the OC though.D wise we can't stop anybody all of a sudden,seems Cook went down and couple that with teams are now running right through are DT's and it's killing us and opening up the passing attack.
well, i think they say 2nd most important on offense, not overall. If it was second most important, cleveland & miami would have been decent teams.

As for making up your mind on Ponder, maybe how you should look at it is how I look at it. He's my QB until Vikes can get a better QB. Vikes need a better QB, but I don't go to games & boo Ponder. I would play Ponder until we have a better QB, since the coaching staff obviously has no faith in Webb.

As for the OC, dude, vikes have no business having the record they do. You ignore Ponder's weaknesses. If the VIkes don't run AD as much as they do or run the sets they do, Ponder would do worse. D's are setting up to stop AD. You feed AD enough until Ponder looks decent. the yards per carry AD gets doesn't matter; it's the yards per pass attempt ponder gets (because of higher risk of passing than running, you need a premium)

“Zimmer Turner Overdrive”

Since: Jan 07

Minneapolis

#66 Nov 12, 2012
Stubby wrote:
<quoted text>
By your own logic if pass rushers are second most important wouldn't that automatically make pass defenders #3? Vikings have a pass rushing line. Vikings are top 10 in sacks so adding a DT would have made strong unit stronger at the expense of making a weak O line weaker.
If you had your way the Vikings would end the year leading is sacks but with no QB as they would have all been pummeled to the IR by then.
Ah, when you said pass defenders, you mean a corner? yeah, having one shut down corner is huge & to me, more important than left tackle. Indy won with Charlie Johnson, Pitt won with Starks & some other bum, NYG won with Diehl. All leaning the "stiff" direction, for pass blocking. As for the DT, putting in a guy that stops runs up the middle puts teams in more 3rd & long situations, Stubby. Then, if the DT you have is a fast freak like Cox is, he can give you some pass rush & collapse the pocket a bit. When you eliminate the ability of a QB to step up, it really destroys the other team's passing attack & allows Jared to get home more often.

Since: Dec 06

Spring Hill, FL

#67 Nov 12, 2012
Purple Faithful wrote:
<quoted text>Ah, when you said pass defenders, you mean a corner? yeah, having one shut down corner is huge & to me, more important than left tackle. Indy won with Charlie Johnson, Pitt won with Starks & some other bum, NYG won with Diehl. All leaning the "stiff" direction, for pass blocking. As for the DT, putting in a guy that stops runs up the middle puts teams in more 3rd & long situations, Stubby. Then, if the DT you have is a fast freak like Cox is, he can give you some pass rush & collapse the pocket a bit. When you eliminate the ability of a QB to step up, it really destroys the other team's passing attack & allows Jared to get home more often.
It was only a few years back,we had two great DT's,nothing happened like a Championship.Dallas whipped Philly with Cox and I see more DE's doing damage than I ever see DT's.My observation.
I would say if a team has enough great players,sprinkled through out,then you have a chance to win it all.Free agency means you can't have it all,but if you have enough great players,then on any given Sunday right through the S.B.you have a shot.

“Lying scumbags need not apply”

Since: Jan 08

Yorktown, VA

#68 Nov 12, 2012
Purple Faithful wrote:
<quoted text>Ah, when you said pass defenders, you mean a corner? yeah, having one shut down corner is huge & to me, more important than left tackle. Indy won with Charlie Johnson, Pitt won with Starks & some other bum, NYG won with Diehl. All leaning the "stiff" direction, for pass blocking. As for the DT, putting in a guy that stops runs up the middle puts teams in more 3rd & long situations, Stubby. Then, if the DT you have is a fast freak like Cox is, he can give you some pass rush & collapse the pocket a bit. When you eliminate the ability of a QB to step up, it really destroys the other team's passing attack & allows Jared to get home more often.
No I meant pass blockers. Particularly OTs to match up against the top DTs.

As for your logic on DT being more valuable and Vikings should have taken Cox instead of Kalil. Guess who's D line leads in tackles for loss? Vikings are #3 and Philly is #6 (source footbal outsiders).

Get over it. Cox as a DT was not a position of need last draft and would have been a wasted pick. OT was the right call.

“Lying scumbags need not apply”

Since: Jan 08

Yorktown, VA

#69 Nov 12, 2012
Purple Faithful wrote:
<quoted text>Lots of teams have less talent on the offensive line, stubby. Giants won two super bowls with less talent (based on draft position) than the Vikings. Pittsburgh won 3 super bowls with less offensive line talent than the Vikings do now. Green Bay won theirs with less offensive line talent ( then started drafting high o-linemen after they won ). Really, I'm hard pressed to find a team with as high of a point total on offensive linemen than the Vikings that has won a Super Bowl recently. Pretty sure you need to go back 10 years. As for Fusco, keep in mind offensivelinemen get developed. See: Sullivan, John. Relax on the o-linemen, they haven't helped san fran win anything. Getting a DT that demands a double on runs & passes because of his strength & quickness opens up blitzes, jared allen, & the center of the defense. I'm talking about adding one defender. you wanted a LT, now a RG, & a LG. I assume you are unhappy with RT as well. I wanted one guy & still want one guy. Call it the "Tuck" rule, as in Justin Tuck. When Justin Tuck smashes the other team's Tom Brady, your Eli Manning is enough to win.
Less talented based on draft position. WTF kind of logic is that. after a couple seasons players either grow into NFL starters or fade away quickly. Both Giants and Packers had a Pro Bowl O lineman during the Superbowl wins.

O lineman haven't helped SF win anything. Another WTF on that one. It wasn't until they drafted Davis and Iutupi early that they slopped losing. Over 10 years without a winning season and all the sudden they are a power house. But oh no, it couldn't be high draft pick lineman that helped them. By your logic they should have taken a DT becuase a DT fixes everything. The last DT they took high was Kentwan Blamer in 08'. Lasted 2 years with them and never shined.

Since: Dec 06

Spring Hill, FL

#70 Nov 12, 2012
Sounds like all teams should be drafting is Qb's,wr's and DT's,the best draft wins the S.B.
Think I'll stick with the conventional wisdom.And it's not sentence 1.

“Lying scumbags need not apply”

Since: Jan 08

Yorktown, VA

#71 Nov 13, 2012
On the plus side Purple Faithful explains why HE thinks HIS opinion. Never quotes a media analysts or make other silly claims. He may be off on needing DT last draft but at least he's not a copycat like Avant.

Since: Dec 06

Spring Hill, FL

#72 Nov 13, 2012
Purple Faithful wrote:
<quoted text>Well, Indy definitely laid down & they have some defense/rushers & some weapons. We'll see how Luck looks next year when defenses adjust a bit, but man, he looks good. Yeah, in the draft, I liked Stanzi, then Ponder. You liked Dalton, then Ponder. I just think the Vikes missed. I don't think it was bad to draft Ponder; i think it's bad to rush someone who's not ready, then after you break him, not move on quickly enough. Ponder's developed his habits now, as Stubby pointed out.
As for RG3, he may get hurt, who knows, but with his zero of an offense (no AD/Harvin there) and absolute zero of a defense, he's doing a lot & has 7.61 YPA, which is better than Brady for 8th in the league. Kalil's a fine enough tackle, it seems, but players like him at less important position just ensure us a certain level of mediocrity - we won't pick high enough to get an elite QB.( just watched Johnny Manziel & texas tech dump Alabama. wow.) Yeah, i'm real disappointed the Vikings didn't take a flier on Burfict. makes no sense to me.
As for Cox, yeah, he has limited box score stats. you need to watch him to see the impact.
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/blogs/birds-ne...
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2012/10/31...
I think he's gonna develop into a monster. Anyway, to the point, to win in the NFL, it's how efficient you are in the NFL passing versus how efficient your opponent is passing against you.(long haul, average) That is, if the Vikes only pass 10 times a game, it's fine as long as they get 7.5 YPA & their opponents only average 6 YPA. Running the ball just makes your passing more efficient. Basically, the vikes need to run the ball enough so that when they throw, they get 7.5 to 8 yards per attempt or more. If that's 30 times a game, so be it. Problem is Ponder is still the same & unable to capitalize (on vikes running attack). at least this year & last year.
RG3 was 2nd overall pick.A guy you were willing to trade our entire draft for,you may have said two drafts.No excuses,I want to see RG3 carry his team.

“Lying scumbags need not apply”

Since: Jan 08

Yorktown, VA

#73 Dec 4, 2012
I am now convinced that if Frazier doesn't fire Musgrave at the end of the season that Zygi needs to fire Frazier.

Since: Dec 12

Chisago City, MN

#74 Dec 4, 2012
Stubby wrote:
I am now convinced that if Frazier doesn't fire Musgrave at the end of the season that Zygi needs to fire Frazier.
Fire Spielman, Musgrave and Frazier!
Harry

Palmdale, CA

#75 Dec 5, 2012
AndyM138 wrote:
<quoted text>
Fire Spielman, Musgrave and Frazier!
Totally.
Harry

Palmdale, CA

#76 Dec 5, 2012
Stubby wrote:
Was not thrilled with Frazier and company last year. However am starting to see a glimmer of hope. First is Frazier. He's so cold an unemotional he doesn't seem to inspire the team on the sideline. Don't know how he is at practice or in the locker room but on the sideline he is a zombie. At least he was until the Niner game. After the BS replay/timeout fiasco he was on the field, in the Refs grill and fairly animated. I've coached baseball and softball for 16 years and learned that players like it when the coach sticks up for them . With replacements held in low regard Frazier's actions were noticed by the players.
Next is Williams. Too early to tel how they'll hold up but the secondary is light years ahead of last year. The rotation of the front 4 is also telling as there hasn't been the drop off that was noticed last year late in games.
Musgrave is the one who is starting to surprised me the most. He knows the teams limitations vertically and is making a great underneath game plan. At first I thought it was too predictable and easily defended. Predictable yes, defendable no. The execution of the O with Ponder's accuracy makes it work. Plus there are enough variations (hello no huddle) that keep the D guessing. Finally he has realized that he needs to get the ball into Harvin's hands. Smart move.
Jury is still out but it is looking less and less like a guilty verdict with the death penalty.
Harvin threw his little tantrum in Seattle, got hurt, did not make the trip to Green Bay.

Frazier is not going take any sh!t from any player no matter how valuable.

The OC is next. Toast.

“Lying scumbags need not apply”

Since: Jan 08

Yorktown, VA

#77 Dec 10, 2012
Peterson running for over 150 in last month. This means 8,9 even 10 men in the box. Yet Musgrave is so lame he calls zero play action passes. None. It is so obvious when they are going to pas, no wonder Ponder has someone in his face. Get a clue Musgrave or get the hell out of the way.

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