Amanda Todd: Bullies who drove 15-year-old to suicide could face criminal charges

Oct 15, 2012 Full story: Mirror.co.uk 364

Police chief says he is gathering evidence against all individuals "that may have played a role in her death in some way" He also blackmailed her, but the cyberspace stalker was aided by people in Amanda's real-world life, who used the pictures to make her life hell.

Full Story

“Proud White Woman for life!”

Level 8

Since: Apr 09

Spotted World

#250 Oct 20, 2012
liam cul8r wrote:
<quoted text>While I agree this story needs a public out cry, here on offbeat,the tragedy of Amanda Todd has faded away to personal conflicts which have nothing to do with this teenage girl killing herself. It's amazing to me how people can lose sight of the actual loss that has taken place in order to defend their own beliefs of what is right and wrong. There are many links about this were you can see more about bullying and what happened to this girl without getting caught up in this senseless arguing going on here.
Thank you. I tried to remind others before to stop talking about me and get back to the story. I pointed out the irony between what happened to the girl and how they are ganging up on me in here rather than letting me deal with the ones attacking me. Do they listen, no. They don't get the idea that Topix is a toilet. You are supposed to do your mess in the bowl, wipe, flush, wash your hands, and move on. You are not to go in the restroom after someone has left and play in the cr*p they forgot to flush. You don't remind them of what their cr*p smelled like last week or even 2 years ago.

I am sick of the crap and bullying on Topix. Nearly always, it is people on the left trying to control what others have to say rather than just letting things pass. If you like it, comment, if not, get over yourself and let it pass and move on. People need to learn to be more passive and thus tolerant (not the hijacked definition) in these forums. If more people would look ahead or down as they walk, ignore everyone who in not in their own family/group unless they speak first and address it to them, and stay out of other people's fights and disputes and not jump in unless someone is seriously getting hurt, the world would be a much better place.

If everyone would teach their children that they are at school to learn and ONLY to learn, that it is immoral and wrong to bully no matter what, and that others have a right to be different, and how others dress or do things has no effect on you, and that you should keep your comments to yourself unless they are positive. People talk about school being necessary for "socialization," but actually, public schools (and even private schools that are modeled after them) are the worst for that. Home schooled kids tend to be more secure in themselves, less likely to be bullied, less likely to bully, and more respectful when they go to college or the workforce. Public schools are damaging our kids, and exposing them to bullies, immorality, controlling naziesque teachers, insensitive coaches, raping faculty members, etc. Children of faith are more likely to be secure, and schools are robbing kids. As much as I blame the bullies, the parents of the bullies, and the teachers who observe it and do nothing, the real problem is the entire philosophy behind school.
Grace Nerissa

Ireland

#251 Oct 20, 2012
Spotted Girl wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you. I tried to remind others before to stop talking about me and get back to the story. I pointed out the irony between what happened to the girl and how they are ganging up on me in here rather than letting me deal with the ones attacking me. Do they listen, no. They don't get the idea that Topix is a toilet. You are supposed to do your mess in the bowl, wipe, flush, wash your hands, and move on. You are not to go in the restroom after someone has left and play in the cr*p they forgot to flush. You don't remind them of what their cr*p smelled like last week or even 2 years ago.
I am sick of the crap and bullying on Topix. Nearly always, it is people on the left trying to control what others have to say rather than just letting things pass. If you like it, comment, if not, get over yourself and let it pass and move on. People need to learn to be more passive and thus tolerant (not the hijacked definition) in these forums. If more people would look ahead or down as they walk, ignore everyone who in not in their own family/group unless they speak first and address it to them, and stay out of other people's fights and disputes and not jump in unless someone is seriously getting hurt, the world would be a much better place.
If everyone would teach their children that they are at school to learn and ONLY to learn, that it is immoral and wrong to bully no matter what, and that others have a right to be different, and how others dress or do things has no effect on you, and that you should keep your comments to yourself unless they are positive. People talk about school being necessary for "socialization," but actually, public schools (and even private schools that are modeled after them) are the worst for that. Home schooled kids tend to be more secure in themselves, less likely to be bullied, less likely to bully, and more respectful when they go to college or the workforce. Public schools are damaging our kids, and exposing them to bullies, immorality, controlling naziesque teachers, insensitive coaches, raping faculty members, etc. Children of faith are more likely to be secure, and schools are robbing kids. As much as I blame the bullies, the parents of the bullies, and the teachers who observe it and do nothing, the real problem is the entire philosophy behind school.
What also has been lost sight of here is
That this is Topix..
The way you are carrying on .. issuing rules
left right and centre -
laced with 'do's' and 'don't's-
Warnings to everyone to be vigilant at all times
and on guard.. Fearing a knife in the back
In the dead of night - Telling
everyone, when to post, when not to..
What to say when they post & What to avoid saying..

JEEZ!. It's as tho' we here on the thread, are seen by you as (more like a bunch of hardened
criminals just about to start life sentences for great crimes..
In one of the worlds most notorious prisons)
Than folks having a discussion a Topix forum..

Beats me!

“My latest victim”

Since: Jul 10

Farmington, MI

#252 Oct 20, 2012
Grace Nerissa wrote:
<quoted text>
What also has been lost sight of here is
That this is Topix..
The way you are carrying on .. issuing rules
left right and centre -
laced with 'do's' and 'don't's-
Warnings to everyone to be vigilant at all times
and on guard.. Fearing a knife in the back
In the dead of night - Telling
everyone, when to post, when not to..
What to say when they post & What to avoid saying..
JEEZ!. It's as tho' we here on the thread, are seen by you as (more like a bunch of hardened
criminals just about to start life sentences for great crimes..
In one of the worlds most notorious prisons)
Than folks having a discussion a Topix forum..
Beats me!
Often I can relate people here on offbeat to people in my real world life. I can see common traits.

Every once in awhile I meet someone here that I can't fathom existing in the real world.

From the skimming I did, I am reminded of when I worked at Kohl's Department store.

I asked a customer if she had found everything she was looking for. She responded with "That Is None Of Your Business!" and later called in a complaint about me asking her that and how they should train their employees to mind their own business.

“I call it as I see it.”

Level 8

Since: Jul 09

Retirement City

#253 Oct 20, 2012
Spotted Girl wrote:
<quoted text>
She does not have the right to interfere in what I say to others, and you have no right to interfere in what I say to her. I relate ONLY to individuals, and in a one-on-one fashion. But you, being a coward and weak, have to hide behind your bully clique of "friends."
Nothing I said was vulgar. If it was, it is not your business in the least. ONLY she or Topix has a right to call me out on that. It would take a lot for you to be Grace - Goodbye Mr. Happy, standing urination, arrogance, watching sports, and being competitive! ;-) But you are not her and have no idea how she feels. You speaking for her is demeaning and disrespectful. She is more than capable of speaking for herself and defending herself. She even immorally and nosily "defends" (patronizes) others who are not victims and for which she has no duty to even pretend to correct.
I mentioned her twice in posts to you so far, so I wouldn't care if she weighed in. She would have that right, not that I would even bother to read her posts.
We have the right to comment as we see fit just like you do. It is a two way street.

“....VETS”

Level 9

Since: Jan 08

WELCOME HOME

#254 Oct 20, 2012
flbadcatowner wrote:
<quoted text>We have the right to comment as we see fit just like you do. It is a two way street.
with humor" AVENUE ".....A means of access or approach: new avenues of trade.

“I call it as I see it.”

Level 8

Since: Jul 09

Retirement City

#255 Oct 20, 2012
Spotted Girl wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you. I tried to remind others before to stop talking about me and get back to the story. I pointed out the irony between what happened to the girl and how they are ganging up on me in here rather than letting me deal with the ones attacking me. Do they listen, no. They don't get the idea that Topix is a toilet. You are supposed to do your mess in the bowl, wipe, flush, wash your hands, and move on. You are not to go in the restroom after someone has left and play in the cr*p they forgot to flush. You don't remind them of what their cr*p smelled like last week or even 2 years ago.
I am sick of the crap and bullying on Topix. Nearly always, it is people on the left trying to control what others have to say rather than just letting things pass. If you like it, comment, if not, get over yourself and let it pass and move on. People need to learn to be more passive and thus tolerant (not the hijacked definition) in these forums. If more people would look ahead or down as they walk, ignore everyone who in not in their own family/group unless they speak first and address it to them, and stay out of other people's fights and disputes and not jump in unless someone is seriously getting hurt, the world would be a much better place.
If everyone would teach their children that they are at school to learn and ONLY to learn, that it is immoral and wrong to bully no matter what, and that others have a right to be different, and how others dress or do things has no effect on you, and that you should keep your comments to yourself unless they are positive. People talk about school being necessary for "socialization," but actually, public schools (and even private schools that are modeled after them) are the worst for that. Home schooled kids tend to be more secure in themselves, less likely to be bullied, less likely to bully, and more respectful when they go to college or the workforce. Public schools are damaging our kids, and exposing them to bullies, immorality, controlling naziesque teachers, insensitive coaches, raping faculty members, etc. Children of faith are more likely to be secure, and schools are robbing kids. As much as I blame the bullies, the parents of the bullies, and the teachers who observe it and do nothing, the real problem is the entire philosophy behind school.
When you throw mud, it is hard not to get it on yourself as well. Maybe we all should drop the battling as it is getting us nowhere fast. If I post something that I know is controversial, I fully expect to get negative response. If somebody presents a good answer, I just simply try to come up with a better reply. In the case where somebody out and out defeats me in an exchange, I will simply admit to myself that I have been outdone and then regroup and not blame it on my opponents and then learn from my mistakes and not repeat them by being more careful not to make statements.

Since I have been on Topix, I have learned not to say anything that cannot be backed up with established fact and always be alert for a chance to counter attack other's gaffes. It always helps to avoid vicious personal attacks as a savvy poster can easily leave such a person dining on shoe leather and crow and score debating points. If you would dump that left wing conspiracy idea which has been a liability rather than an asset for you, we would have no need to fight back against its misuse. When somebody tries to back me into a corner, I am going to fight back and defend my honor against those who would try to trash it. You sound like a very intelligent person. I would hope you would harness it for better things than a nasty battle. Sometimes you do make points I can readily agree with. Other times, you will make posts that are poorly thought out which invite negative criticism. Admittedly, I once did have problems with harsh criticism of some of my posts, but I have since developed thicker skin and no longer let it get to me.

“Proud White Woman for life!”

Level 8

Since: Apr 09

Spotted World

#256 Oct 20, 2012
Grace Nerissa wrote:
<quoted text>
What also has been lost sight of here is
That this is Topix..
The way you are carrying on .. issuing rules
left right and centre -
laced with 'do's' and 'don't's-
Warnings to everyone to be vigilant at all times
and on guard.. Fearing a knife in the back
In the dead of night - Telling
everyone, when to post, when not to..
What to say when they post & What to avoid saying..
JEEZ!. It's as tho' we here on the thread, are seen by you as (more like a bunch of hardened
criminals just about to start life sentences for great crimes..
In one of the worlds most notorious prisons)
Than folks having a discussion a Topix forum..
Beats me!
I don't "issue rules." That's your department. Heil Grace! If you didn't want others to give you rules, you would never criticize how people treat others who are not you nor your family. It was YOU and others telling ME what not to say. Why can't you be like me and NEVER intervene in the conflicts of others no matter what? All you have to do is keep to yourself and be passive like me, and only speak on theory, concepts, ideas, and do so impersonally, and only criticize when ONLY you are attacked. This is not an attack, but your medicine. All you had to do was stay out of MY conflicts.

When in doubt, do nothing. That's a universal and intuitive rule that EVERYONE should know and practice since very young, and something a loving parent would make sure they know. If you're not 100% sure that what you are about to say or do will help or even be appreciated, then it is important to do nothing. For many tasks, the less you do, the better the outcome. If you keep Angel Fish, you don't want to do frequent tank changes. If you look at them wrong, they will probably die.

Posting to me is simple. Don't correct no matter what because normal, healthy adults automatically and intuitively know better. Don't act like you own me. When you tell me what to say to others or not to say to others or jump on me for what I say to anyone but you, you are by your actions saying you own me. If you didn't mean that, you would not behave that way. If you didn't think you were so better than everyone else, you'd let others say whatever they want to others no matter what and never try to fix them. It seems that people can do nothing good enough for you. You have trouble accepting people AS THEY ALREADY ARE. A good friend NEVER tries to correct, change, or "better" a friend no matter what. They would KNOW they and the other person are equal and that EVERYTHING each does is already perfect and best for them. Why not just let others just be and have no standards for ANYONE but yourself (or your kids or employees).

If you are not 100% sure what to say to another person, then DON'T do it. Just make sure you do nothing for me unless I say I want it, and never say anything to me in a way that has any power or control elements, anything nosy, anything bossy, or anything a parent would ever do or say to their children. I am proudly not a child, and I'm sick of particular people trying to correct, teach, notice, change, parent, or any other form of control.

So it is very EASY to be my friend. Just let me call all the shots in my own life and take no interest in what I say or do nor notice anything personal about me.

When you see me saying something you don't like TO ANOTHER PERSON, you can try this:

1. First remind yourself that I had the right to say whatever. You can tell yourself that there is more to it that you cannot possibly know.

2. Then tell yourself that if the other person is offended, THEY will say so. Try to avoid thinking of them as helpless or weak. Try not to be codependent or a rescuer type. If they want help, they will ask for it. Instead think of them as an independent adult and an equal like you, 100% capable of defending themselves.

3. Ignore it and move on. It is not your business.

“Proud White Woman for life!”

Level 8

Since: Apr 09

Spotted World

#257 Oct 20, 2012
flbadcatowner wrote:
<quoted text>When you throw mud, it is hard not to get it on yourself as well. Maybe we all should drop the battling as it is getting us nowhere fast. If I post something that I know is controversial, I fully expect to get negative response. If somebody presents a good answer, I just simply try to come up with a better reply. In the case where somebody out and out defeats me in an exchange, I will simply admit to myself that I have been outdone and then regroup and not blame it on my opponents and then learn from my mistakes and not repeat them by being more careful not to make statements.
Since I have been on Topix, I have learned not to say anything that cannot be backed up with established fact and always be alert for a chance to counter attack other's gaffes. It always helps to avoid vicious personal attacks as a savvy poster can easily leave such a person dining on shoe leather and crow and score debating points. If you would dump that left wing conspiracy idea which has been a liability rather than an asset for you, we would have no need to fight back against its misuse. When somebody tries to back me into a corner, I am going to fight back and defend my honor against those who would try to trash it. You sound like a very intelligent person. I would hope you would harness it for better things than a nasty battle. Sometimes you do make points I can readily agree with. Other times, you will make posts that are poorly thought out which invite negative criticism. Admittedly, I once did have problems with harsh criticism of some of my posts, but I have since developed thicker skin and no longer let it get to me.
Maybe you should consider who threw mud first. As long as you keep posting to me in this thread, you are being the aggressor, though I admit this past post was a move towards peace. Thank you.

Each time others attack me, I WILL defend myself. I guess we share that trait.

We all have the key. I was having it out with Tony who jumped me for a female emotional vent on the first page, when you jumped in, seeing my defense from him as an attack.

I get no pleasure out of debating anyone. I only doing so here because I feel I must to defend myself. My hand is being pushed.

I already harness my intelligence for other things, but that requires others staying out of my way, others to accepting me as I already am, and never being told what to say nor do unless an actual authority figure says it. I plan everything I say on here and all I do is for a reason that others have no right to know.

I'm always passive and non-competitive until others invade my private space and push me. I would love to be like that all the time, and that requires others staying out of my way, fully letting me run my life, and trusting me to know what to do in my life, even if others believe it is wrong.

I'll keep on until I can post things like what I said on the first page (or about vigilante justice, or hypothetical libs, or the President and First Family) freely with NOBODY telling me not to say it nor bullying me nor putting me down. Nearly everything I say is about my opinions or feelings specific to that time, and ONLY THAT TIME. I will keep on until I can publicly have it out with any specific person in front of others with others not getting involved.

I don't intervene in fights, but trust others to defend themselves. If it is dangerous, then I call the cops or contact whatever authority. "Snitching" is good (unless you live in the hood), intervening is not.

I won't give up the fight until I get permanent results in getting to be myself at any cost every single day. That means being able to post about what I want and trusted to say what I need to say. It means letting me have it out with individuals - one on one only. It means not trying to change, control, nor correct me.

Too many on Offbeat try to force conformity, and it is time for that to change - permanently.

“I call it as I see it.”

Level 8

Since: Jul 09

Retirement City

#258 Oct 20, 2012
Spotted Girl wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't "issue rules." That's your department. Heil Grace! If you didn't want others to give you rules, you would never criticize how people treat others who are not you nor your family. It was YOU and others telling ME what not to say. Why can't you be like me and NEVER intervene in the conflicts of others no matter what? All you have to do is keep to yourself and be passive like me, and only speak on theory, concepts, ideas, and do so impersonally, and only criticize when ONLY you are attacked. This is not an attack, but your medicine. All you had to do was stay out of MY conflicts.
When in doubt, do nothing. That's a universal and intuitive rule that EVERYONE should know and practice since very young, and something a loving parent would make sure they know. If you're not 100% sure that what you are about to say or do will help or even be appreciated, then it is important to do nothing. For many tasks, the less you do, the better the outcome. If you keep Angel Fish, you don't want to do frequent tank changes. If you look at them wrong, they will probably die.
Posting to me is simple. Don't correct no matter what because normal, healthy adults automatically and intuitively know better. Don't act like you own me. When you tell me what to say to others or not to say to others or jump on me for what I say to anyone but you, you are by your actions saying you own me. If you didn't mean that, you would not behave that way. If you didn't think you were so better than everyone else, you'd let others say whatever they want to others no matter what and never try to fix them. It seems that people can do nothing good enough for you. You have trouble accepting people AS THEY ALREADY ARE. A good friend NEVER tries to correct, change, or "better" a friend no matter what. They would KNOW they and the other person are equal and that EVERYTHING each does is already perfect and best for them. Why not just let others just be and have no standards for ANYONE but yourself (or your kids or employees).
If you are not 100% sure what to say to another person, then DON'T do it. Just make sure you do nothing for me unless I say I want it, and never say anything to me in a way that has any power or control elements, anything nosy, anything bossy, or anything a parent would ever do or say to their children. I am proudly not a child, and I'm sick of particular people trying to correct, teach, notice, change, parent, or any other form of control.
So it is very EASY to be my friend. Just let me call all the shots in my own life and take no interest in what I say or do nor notice anything personal about me.
When you see me saying something you don't like TO ANOTHER PERSON, you can try this:
1. First remind yourself that I had the right to say whatever. You can tell yourself that there is more to it that you cannot possibly know.
2. Then tell yourself that if the other person is offended, THEY will say so. Try to avoid thinking of them as helpless or weak. Try not to be codependent or a rescuer type. If they want help, they will ask for it. Instead think of them as an independent adult and an equal like you, 100% capable of defending themselves.
3. Ignore it and move on. It is not your business.
That was very unfair to Grace. Her initial response to you that has snowballed into this nasty exchange was far milder than your counterattack. Grace issued a comparatively mild rebuke in her first post to you on this thread and you responded with an out and out character assassination. For an obviously intelligent lady, you make some counterattacks that are absolutely baseless. I have seen many posts by you and Grace and simply going by what I have seen, Grace seems to make a lot more sense than you do.

“I call it as I see it.”

Level 8

Since: Jul 09

Retirement City

#259 Oct 20, 2012
Spotted Girl wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe you should consider who threw mud first. As long as you keep posting to me in this thread, you are being the aggressor, though I admit this past post was a move towards peace. Thank you.
Each time others attack me, I WILL defend myself. I guess we share that trait.
We all have the key. I was having it out with Tony who jumped me for a female emotional vent on the first page, when you jumped in, seeing my defense from him as an attack.
I get no pleasure out of debating anyone. I only doing so here because I feel I must to defend myself. My hand is being pushed.
I already harness my intelligence for other things, but that requires others staying out of my way, others to accepting me as I already am, and never being told what to say nor do unless an actual authority figure says it. I plan everything I say on here and all I do is for a reason that others have no right to know.
I'm always passive and non-competitive until others invade my private space and push me. I would love to be like that all the time, and that requires others staying out of my way, fully letting me run my life, and trusting me to know what to do in my life, even if others believe it is wrong.
I'll keep on until I can post things like what I said on the first page (or about vigilante justice, or hypothetical libs, or the President and First Family) freely with NOBODY telling me not to say it nor bullying me nor putting me down. Nearly everything I say is about my opinions or feelings specific to that time, and ONLY THAT TIME. I will keep on until I can publicly have it out with any specific person in front of others with others not getting involved.
I don't intervene in fights, but trust others to defend themselves. If it is dangerous, then I call the cops or contact whatever authority. "Snitching" is good (unless you live in the hood), intervening is not.
I won't give up the fight until I get permanent results in getting to be myself at any cost every single day. That means being able to post about what I want and trusted to say what I need to say. It means letting me have it out with individuals - one on one only. It means not trying to change, control, nor correct me.
Too many on Offbeat try to force conformity, and it is time for that to change - permanently.
It is high time you started taking your own advice that you so freely dispense to others. You are quick to point out a speck of sawdust in another's eye and neglect the basketball in your own eye.

“Proud White Woman for life!”

Level 8

Since: Apr 09

Spotted World

#260 Oct 20, 2012
flbadcatowner wrote:
<quoted text>We have the right to comment as we see fit just like you do. It is a two way street.
Comment yes, interfere, no. Comment on things. yes, attack people who are here discussing it, no. My first post attacked no actual persons in this thread, just hypothetical liberals, and with NO specific persons in mind. Nothing I say like that is personal. I think it is immoral and wrong to speak with others on a person level. Just keep to facts, figures, feelings, opinions, etc., and never people (unless they are celebs or authority figures that are far removed from most of us, then they are basically just an item or concept).

I merely posted about strawman libs to the entire room as a female vent and expressing my opinions and feelings that I had AT THAT TIME (and only that time). Tony could have said he disagreed, but he immediately went on the attack. Then when I defended myself from him, you, Grace, and another joined him and ganged up on me.

I had the right to make my initial comment without being attacked personally. From my BBS days (yes, I was a sysop), I remember the adage that some sysops of other systems used - Attack the idea, not the person. All 4 of you could have stated disagreement without discussing me, but keeping it impersonal, abstract, and/or about ideas and concepts. So I am not suggesting that anyone's free speech be curtailed, but for others to learn manners like not busting into other people's disputes and not commenting about ANY personal traits you think you may notice (which nobody has a right to even notice).

At least in Japan, you can walk the streets dressed nearly any way you want, and without ridicule. People are disciplined enough to be self-absorbed and not notice what is not important to them. If all acted that way, the world wold be much better.

Anyway, let me give an alternate sequence of behavior for all involved which they could have done instead:

1. I gave an impersonal throw-away vent about bullies and how hypothetical liberals bully that had nothing to do with anyone in here and was not a reply to anyone, but a fresh comment.(That was how it was.)

2. Tony could have read it then scrolled to the bottom of the screen and posted something about how hypothetical conservatives were a part of the problem or whatever. He didn't have to reply to me, nor did he have to refer to me. He could have referred to only the comments I made without referencing me.

3. Others could have posted about their impersonal ideas relating in some way to the story or related topics to the room too. Nobody had to make any comments about others, gang up on anyone, nor tell others what to say or not to say. Just stick to the topic or other related topics that don't include participants of the conversation.

Of course, if it is nice, polite, complimentary, etc., then all guidelines I've given can be ignored, since they would be irrelevant. I used to be mad at people being "topic nazis," but maybe such people have the right idea. Maybe more structured forums would help, but I prefer unstructured areas where I can express myself and be myself, with no judgment, limits, nor criticism. More preferably, people each getting to be themselves against the whole world without much interaction between them, just each telling everyone as a whole what they think or feel, and with all ideas considered equal, and no debate.

We all can learn lessons from these exchanges. In fact, I can start some threads for that purpose. I would love to try my experimental approach to interacting with information, and we could have it maybe in a game thread. There are some ideas to try.

“I call it as I see it.”

Level 8

Since: Jul 09

Retirement City

#261 Oct 20, 2012
Spotted Girl wrote:
<quoted text>
Comment yes, interfere, no. Comment on things. yes, attack people who are here discussing it, no. My first post attacked no actual persons in this thread, just hypothetical liberals, and with NO specific persons in mind. Nothing I say like that is personal. I think it is immoral and wrong to speak with others on a person level. Just keep to facts, figures, feelings, opinions, etc., and never people (unless they are celebs or authority figures that are far removed from most of us, then they are basically just an item or concept).
I merely posted about strawman libs to the entire room as a female vent and expressing my opinions and feelings that I had AT THAT TIME (and only that time). Tony could have said he disagreed, but he immediately went on the attack. Then when I defended myself from him, you, Grace, and another joined him and ganged up on me.
I had the right to make my initial comment without being attacked personally. From my BBS days (yes, I was a sysop), I remember the adage that some sysops of other systems used - Attack the idea, not the person. All 4 of you could have stated disagreement without discussing me, but keeping it impersonal, abstract, and/or about ideas and concepts. So I am not suggesting that anyone's free speech be curtailed, but for others to learn manners like not busting into other people's disputes and not commenting about ANY personal traits you think you may notice (which nobody has a right to even notice).
At least in Japan, you can walk the streets dressed nearly any way you want, and without ridicule. People are disciplined enough to be self-absorbed and not notice what is not important to them. If all acted that way, the world wold be much better.
Anyway, let me give an alternate sequence of behavior for all involved which they could have done instead:
1. I gave an impersonal throw-away vent about bullies and how hypothetical liberals bully that had nothing to do with anyone in here and was not a reply to anyone, but a fresh comment.(That was how it was.)
2. Tony could have read it then scrolled to the bottom of the screen and posted something about how hypothetical conservatives were a part of the problem or whatever. He didn't have to reply to me, nor did he have to refer to me. He could have referred to only the comments I made without referencing me.
3. Others could have posted about their impersonal ideas relating in some way to the story or related topics to the room too. Nobody had to make any comments about others, gang up on anyone, nor tell others what to say or not to say. Just stick to the topic or other related topics that don't include participants of the conversation.
Of course, if it is nice, polite, complimentary, etc., then all guidelines I've given can be ignored, since they would be irrelevant. I used to be mad at people being "topic nazis," but maybe such people have the right idea. Maybe more structured forums would help, but I prefer unstructured areas where I can express myself and be myself, with no judgment, limits, nor criticism. More preferably, people each getting to be themselves against the whole world without much interaction between them, just each telling everyone as a whole what they think or feel, and with all ideas considered equal, and no debate.
We all can learn lessons from these exchanges. In fact, I can start some threads for that purpose. I would love to try my experimental approach to interacting with information, and we could have it maybe in a game thread. There are some ideas to try.
The problem is that you use the term "interfere" interchangeably with dissenting opinions. Things don't work that way on Topix. Just because you post some belief foreign to the way another thinks that is not addressed to any specific individual does not morally insulate you from receiving dissenting opinions, especially when such opinions insult other people's intelligence and sensibilities.
Rosa

Opelousas, LA

#262 Oct 20, 2012
Spotted Girl wrote:
<quoted text>
She does not have the right to interfere in what I say to others, and you have no right to interfere in what I say to her. I relate ONLY to individuals, and in a one-on-one fashion. But you, being a coward and weak, have to hide behind your bully clique of "friends."
Nothing I said was vulgar. If it was, it is not your business in the least. ONLY she or Topix has a right to call me out on that. It would take a lot for you to be Grace - Goodbye Mr. Happy, standing urination, arrogance, watching sports, and being competitive! ;-) But you are not her and have no idea how she feels. You speaking for her is demeaning and disrespectful. She is more than capable of speaking for herself and defending herself. She even immorally and nosily "defends" (patronizes) others who are not victims and for which she has no duty to even pretend to correct.
I mentioned her twice in posts to you so far, so I wouldn't care if she weighed in. She would have that right, not that I would even bother to read her posts.
...AMEN!!!...I think she is senile...she posts attacks thinking all will stand and applaud...she just can't stand that there are people who recognize her for who she is...seems to me...gracie was doing better in the xex threads...poor gracie...by now she has taken the curling iron to her thighs...LOLOL...

“Proud White Woman for life!”

Level 8

Since: Apr 09

Spotted World

#263 Oct 20, 2012
flbadcatowner wrote:
<quoted text>That was very unfair to Grace. Her initial response to you that has snowballed into this nasty exchange was far milder than your counterattack. Grace issued a comparatively mild rebuke in her first post to you on this thread and you responded with an out and out character assassination. For an obviously intelligent lady, you make some counterattacks that are absolutely baseless. I have seen many posts by you and Grace and simply going by what I have seen, Grace seems to make a lot more sense than you do.
Whether it is unfair to her or not is only for HER to say. You don't own her nor have a right to speak for her.

Counter attacks are NEVER to be mild. The whole purpose of a counter attack is to PERMANENTLY STOP whatever initial behavior. How baseless my counterattacks is not your business. Too bad your parents didn't discipline nosiness out of you. Your nosy behavior and attitude makes them look like they didn't do their job. I don't know them nor know their status, nor do I wish you nor they any harm. Yes, I might have crossed the line there, and I apologize. I am just saying.

I have assassinated nobody's character. I merely defended myself, and defended myself the only correct way. She gave implied consent to my comments by posting to me and pretending to correct me. Correction is ONLY valid when it comes from someone who has a right to be OVER you. When friends or other non-authority figures correct you, they are virtually RAPING you. If I must make her feel totally like nothing to get her to stop trying to mother me and stop caring what I say to OTHERS who are not her, or if I must burn bridges with her to get that SAME freedom that most have, I will. I will do whatever it takes to make you and her stop attacking me, and backing down is no option.

She obviously wanted what little character she has assassinated, or she would stay out of my disputes with others and stop trying to mother me. You are far more disrespectful to her by intervening in OUR dispute and speaking for her. She can speak, so get out of her way and let her. If you are jealous that I am paying attention to her, then see a place like the defunct Tampa Stress Clinic, tell the doctors you are trapped in the wrong body, then start hormones, get surgery, and change your name to Grace. ;-) Okay, not really. LOL!

The fact you interfere with the dispute between Grace and I could indicate sexism, among other possibilities. You cannot trust 2 women to work it out alone, just like she don't trust others and myself to work out our stuff without her. She obviously thinks she is much better than others, or she would never intervene in other people's disputes, talk down to anyone, or try to correct them - not even once (just like someone who doesn't want a baby, child support payments, nor AIDS will never have uncorrected sex even once).

As for who makes more sense. You have no right to notice nor compare. It is just not your business. The amount of sense I make is a private matter to me, and the amount of sense she makes is a private matter to her. Everyone is already equal but different, and perfect as they already are, so nobody has a right to rebuke an equal. Those who rebuke equals without being attacked or rebuked first should have to spend about 2 years behind bars. First attacks are always wrong, counter attacks are always right. So if you don't want a counter attack (self-defense), then don't attack in the first place, and don't counter attack the self-defense or revenge, lest you get more until you stop attacking. It is only fair and right.

“I call it as I see it.”

Level 8

Since: Jul 09

Retirement City

#264 Oct 20, 2012
Spotted Girl wrote:
<quoted text>
Comment yes, interfere, no. Comment on things. yes, attack people who are here discussing it, no. My first post attacked no actual persons in this thread, just hypothetical liberals, and with NO specific persons in mind. Nothing I say like that is personal. I think it is immoral and wrong to speak with others on a person level. Just keep to facts, figures, feelings, opinions, etc., and never people (unless they are celebs or authority figures that are far removed from most of us, then they are basically just an item or concept).
I merely posted about strawman libs to the entire room as a female vent and expressing my opinions and feelings that I had AT THAT TIME (and only that time). Tony could have said he disagreed, but he immediately went on the attack. Then when I defended myself from him, you, Grace, and another joined him and ganged up on me.
I had the right to make my initial comment without being attacked personally. From my BBS days (yes, I was a sysop), I remember the adage that some sysops of other systems used - Attack the idea, not the person. All 4 of you could have stated disagreement without discussing me, but keeping it impersonal, abstract, and/or about ideas and concepts. So I am not suggesting that anyone's free speech be curtailed, but for others to learn manners like not busting into other people's disputes and not commenting about ANY personal traits you think you may notice (which nobody has a right to even notice).
At least in Japan, you can walk the streets dressed nearly any way you want, and without ridicule. People are disciplined enough to be self-absorbed and not notice what is not important to them. If all acted that way, the world wold be much better.
Anyway, let me give an alternate sequence of behavior for all involved which they could have done instead:
1. I gave an impersonal throw-away vent about bullies and how hypothetical liberals bully that had nothing to do with anyone in here and was not a reply to anyone, but a fresh comment.(That was how it was.)
2. Tony could have read it then scrolled to the bottom of the screen and posted something about how hypothetical conservatives were a part of the problem or whatever. He didn't have to reply to me, nor did he have to refer to me. He could have referred to only the comments I made without referencing me.
3. Others could have posted about their impersonal ideas relating in some way to the story or related topics to the room too. Nobody had to make any comments about others, gang up on anyone, nor tell others what to say or not to say. Just stick to the topic or other related topics that don't include participants of the conversation.
Of course, if it is nice, polite, complimentary, etc., then all guidelines I've given can be ignored, since they would be irrelevant. I used to be mad at people being "topic nazis," but maybe such people have the right idea. Maybe more structured forums would help, but I prefer unstructured areas where I can express myself and be myself, with no judgment, limits, nor criticism. More preferably, people each getting to be themselves against the whole world without much interaction between them, just each telling everyone as a whole what they think or feel, and with all ideas considered equal, and no debate.
We all can learn lessons from these exchanges. In fact, I can start some threads for that purpose. I would love to try my experimental approach to interacting with information, and we could have it maybe in a game thread. There are some ideas to try.
Once again, it would be very nice if you would take your own advice once in a while.
Rosa

Opelousas, LA

#265 Oct 20, 2012
Spotted Girl wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe you should consider who threw mud first. As long as you keep posting to me in this thread, you are being the aggressor, though I admit this past post was a move towards peace. Thank you.
Each time others attack me, I WILL defend myself. I guess we share that trait.
We all have the key. I was having it out with Tony who jumped me for a female emotional vent on the first page, when you jumped in, seeing my defense from him as an attack.
I get no pleasure out of debating anyone. I only doing so here because I feel I must to defend myself. My hand is being pushed.
I already harness my intelligence for other things, but that requires others staying out of my way, others to accepting me as I already am, and never being told what to say nor do unless an actual authority figure says it. I plan everything I say on here and all I do is for a reason that others have no right to know.
I'm always passive and non-competitive until others invade my private space and push me. I would love to be like that all the time, and that requires others staying out of my way, fully letting me run my life, and trusting me to know what to do in my life, even if others believe it is wrong.
I'll keep on until I can post things like what I said on the first page (or about vigilante justice, or hypothetical libs, or the President and First Family) freely with NOBODY telling me not to say it nor bullying me nor putting me down. Nearly everything I say is about my opinions or feelings specific to that time, and ONLY THAT TIME. I will keep on until I can publicly have it out with any specific person in front of others with others not getting involved.
I don't intervene in fights, but trust others to defend themselves. If it is dangerous, then I call the cops or contact whatever authority. "Snitching" is good (unless you live in the hood), intervening is not.
I won't give up the fight until I get permanent results in getting to be myself at any cost every single day. That means being able to post about what I want and trusted to say what I need to say. It means letting me have it out with individuals - one on one only. It means not trying to change, control, nor correct me.
Too many on Offbeat try to force conformity, and it is time for that to change - permanently.
...I agree...and I love the way you communicate...

“Proud White Woman for life!”

Level 8

Since: Apr 09

Spotted World

#266 Oct 20, 2012
flbadcatowner wrote:
<quoted text>It is high time you started taking your own advice that you so freely dispense to others. You are quick to point out a speck of sawdust in another's eye and neglect the basketball in your own eye.
I never dispense advice unless attacked first. Being ASKED or being ATTACKED first is the only time it is moral to give advice. I was not giving advice, but telling others how to treat me. If you cared for yourself and was strong, you would set limits on how others treat you. Instead of setting limits up front, you let others invade you then turn to your guns, when you could have sent an advance warning.

Actually, you, Tony, Grace, and the other poster were the first to point out minor flaws in me that you had not right to care about nor notice, while ignoring MANY character defects like your nosiness, bossiness, judging, labeling, bullying, passive-aggression, controlling natures, and that is just scratching the surface. You all seem to have the log of liberalism implanted firming in not only an eye, nor even both eyes, but the brain as well.

“I call it as I see it.”

Level 8

Since: Jul 09

Retirement City

#267 Oct 20, 2012
Spotted Girl wrote:
<quoted text>
Whether it is unfair to her or not is only for HER to say. You don't own her nor have a right to speak for her.
Counter attacks are NEVER to be mild. The whole purpose of a counter attack is to PERMANENTLY STOP whatever initial behavior. How baseless my counterattacks is not your business. Too bad your parents didn't discipline nosiness out of you. Your nosy behavior and attitude makes them look like they didn't do their job. I don't know them nor know their status, nor do I wish you nor they any harm. Yes, I might have crossed the line there, and I apologize. I am just saying.
I have assassinated nobody's character. I merely defended myself, and defended myself the only correct way. She gave implied consent to my comments by posting to me and pretending to correct me. Correction is ONLY valid when it comes from someone who has a right to be OVER you. When friends or other non-authority figures correct you, they are virtually RAPING you. If I must make her feel totally like nothing to get her to stop trying to mother me and stop caring what I say to OTHERS who are not her, or if I must burn bridges with her to get that SAME freedom that most have, I will. I will do whatever it takes to make you and her stop attacking me, and backing down is no option.
She obviously wanted what little character she has assassinated, or she would stay out of my disputes with others and stop trying to mother me. You are far more disrespectful to her by intervening in OUR dispute and speaking for her. She can speak, so get out of her way and let her. If you are jealous that I am paying attention to her, then see a place like the defunct Tampa Stress Clinic, tell the doctors you are trapped in the wrong body, then start hormones, get surgery, and change your name to Grace. ;-) Okay, not really. LOL!
The fact you interfere with the dispute between Grace and I could indicate sexism, among other possibilities. You cannot trust 2 women to work it out alone, just like she don't trust others and myself to work out our stuff without her. She obviously thinks she is much better than others, or she would never intervene in other people's disputes, talk down to anyone, or try to correct them - not even once (just like someone who doesn't want a baby, child support payments, nor AIDS will never have uncorrected sex even once).
As for who makes more sense. You have no right to notice nor compare. It is just not your business. The amount of sense I make is a private matter to me, and the amount of sense she makes is a private matter to her. Everyone is already equal but different, and perfect as they already are, so nobody has a right to rebuke an equal. Those who rebuke equals without being attacked or rebuked first should have to spend about 2 years behind bars. First attacks are always wrong, counter attacks are always right. So if you don't want a counter attack (self-defense), then don't attack in the first place, and don't counter attack the self-defense or revenge, lest you get more until you stop attacking. It is only fair and right.
Bologna!

“Proud White Woman for life!”

Level 8

Since: Apr 09

Spotted World

#269 Oct 20, 2012
Rosa wrote:
<quoted text>...AMEN!!!...I think she is senile...she posts attacks thinking all will stand and applaud...she just can't stand that there are people who recognize her for who she is...seems to me...gracie was doing better in the xex threads...poor gracie...by now she has taken the curling iron to her thighs...LOLOL...
Maybe I will take back one of my "rules." Just because I am having a beef with her doesn't mean I want you to attack her on my behalf. She actually means well, but I think her views on life are a bit skewed - as are everyone's. Actually, I like Grace more in the humor threads. If I were to build a perfect poster, I'd take some Chatty Kathy, some Figarooo, and top her off with some of Grace's humor, and maybe a touch of my own analytical thought processes.

At any rate, I won't let others gang up on her like some have ganged up on me. Fair fights are fought alone between two, not two on one or worse, four on one.

“Proud White Woman for life!”

Level 8

Since: Apr 09

Spotted World

#270 Oct 20, 2012
Rosa wrote:
<quoted text>...I agree...and I love the way you communicate...
I prefer communicating is a passive, non-competitive atmosphere where nobody cares what others say or do, but trust others to know for themselves what is right for them (and only them).

So while you might like how I communicate when I am under duress, I do not. I'd rather be left alone so I can be more like Chatty, Figgy, or my other friends on here. Maybe I am embracing a nature other than my own which I cannot deeply relate to, but I p*ss on those who have one closer to my own. Who knows? And who cares or who should care?

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