Edward Snowden--hero or traitor?

Edward Snowden--hero or traitor?

Created by Poll Taker on Jun 11, 2013

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Hero

trator

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Since: Jun 08

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#25 Jun 12, 2013
Ohio Cowgirl wrote:
<quoted text> And I've noticed just by my name here ( Ohio cowgirl) that I get alot of Western/Cowboy related pop ups..
I'm getting nothing but Netflix (I posted on the movie thread), from the trying to surve thread and Red Bull (I have no idea why).

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#26 Jun 12, 2013
This is for the Obama lovers on here who are in self denial and can't admit that Obama has ever made ONE mistake (he's like Jesus in their eyes, perfect, infallible, without sin, never f's up, no, not him ... not once, ever ... everything that has ever gone wrong on his watch was Bush's fault, and even if he has hypothetically and allegedly speaking, of course (they will never admit as such, of course), in their eyes, Bush f'd up worse, so that MAGICALLY makes Obama's f' ups, non-f' ups, by some special form of f'ed up thinking).

Anyway, with that introduction out of the way, I'll say again what I said yesterday and in response heard <crickets> <<<< funny how that works:

**********

The fact is the Obama administration is using the law in a manner no one ever foresaw and in a manner, that does not even seem to comport with the plain language of The Patriot Act.

Before Mr. Transparency and Hope and Change was elected President, it was hardly used and it was never used to seize the phone and email records of just about everyone in the country. It was used to seize records of specific people who were under investigation:

“That they were using this (provision) to do mass collection of data is definitely the biggest surprise,” said Robert Chesney, a top national security lawyer at the University of Texas Law School.“Most people who followed this closely were not aware they were doing this. We’ve gone from producing records for a particular investigation to the production of all records for a massive pre-collection database. It’s incredibly sweeping.”

http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/...

The section of the Patriot Act they are using is Section 215, which allows:

The Patriot Act provision, known as Section 215, allows the FBI to require the production of business records and any other “tangible things”-- including “books, records, papers, documents and other items,” for an authorized terrorism or foreign intelligence investigation.

What kind of "investigation" could possibly involve EVERY SINGLE PERSON who has used Verizon cell phone service to make a phone call over a 3 month period? ARE WE ALL UNDER INVESTIGATION, all the time? According to Obama, aka Mr. Transparency and Hope and Change, yes, we are.

**********

Bush didn't use this law in the manner in which the Obama administration is using it. So stop blaming Bush.

The plain language of the law also does not lend itself to how it is being used, by the Obama administration. How could anyone foresee that Obama, aka Mr. Transparency, would use a law that is supposed be used in connection with specific investigations to INVESTIGATE EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE COUNTRY? How, did you geniuses know this?

Not only did the genius Obama lovers on here (I think genius Obama lover is an oxymoron, but I digress) know this, but somehow the experts in this area were completely blind sided by how this is being used, as evidenced by "Robert Chesney," a top national security lawyer at the University of Texas Law School being on record in an NBC (which is slightly leftist, IMO, but still pretty decent) article and stating that "most people who followed this closely were not aware they were doing this. We’ve gone from producing records for a particular investigation to the production of all records for a massive pre-collection database. It’s incredibly sweeping.”

Apparently the Obama lovers on here are just so much more brilliant than national security EXPERTS and folks who have been following this issue closely. They knew it ALL ALONG, just ask them, they'll tell you. They also can guess winning lotto numbers, too. You guys are amazing. I bet you can fly too just by waving your arms!

“I know where you are,”

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#27 Jun 12, 2013
Yeah, us "Obama lovers" must be the 99.99% that actually don't give a rat's a$$ about Google or the NSA evesdropping and selecting keywords out of our emails to sell more Viagra for the last 6 years.

Lighten up Francis...

***On a side note, being called an Obama lover because I chose not to put "another" clueless "businessman" and the lesser of two evils in the White House does not necessarily make me a dummy - it does, however make me smarter than the 48% that didn't***

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#28 Jun 12, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
Yeah, us "Obama lovers" must be the 99.99% that actually don't give a rat's a$$ about Google or the NSA evesdropping and selecting keywords out of our emails to sell more Viagra for the last 6 years.
Lighten up Francis...
“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”

Benjamin Franklin

I will not lighten up when it comes to our government trampling our Constitutional rights.

The Fourth Amendment clearly provides:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

You may not care about whether or not your Constitutional Rights are squashed, but I and many other people do. If they can ignore that, what else can they ignore? Maybe you’ll care when they decide to ignore something that you actually care about. Maybe by then it will be too late.

The government has NO RIGHT to be snooping into folks personal effects absent a search warrant and PROBABLE CAUSE. Period. End of story. It’s as plain as day in the Constitution. The Patriot Act doesn’t trump the Constitution. Take a course on Federalism.
milwaukee69 wrote:
***On a side note, being called an Obama lover because I chose not to put "another" clueless "businessman" and the lesser of two evils in the White House does not necessarily make me a dummy - it does, however make me smarter than the 48% that didn't***
Nope, you and others are Obama lovers, not because you voted for him, but because you turn a blind eye to EVERYTHING AND ANYTHING the guy does that is wrong. You never call him out on shyte. Then you and others on here, who do the same, claim you are independents, lmfao.

You suffer from the same problem that many folks who run businesses or sports team suffer from, the failure to demand accountability from “your guys,” because you picked them and if you demanded accountability or called them out for a f’ up, because in your opinion it would reflect poorly on you, since he’s your guy or in this case, since you voted for him, and your fragile ego couldn’t handle it. In other words, it’s “blind loyalty,” and it’s dumb in most every context.

Folks shouldn’t be so tied to the political candidate they voted for that they lose any ability to criticize them, especially when they are committing blatant f’ ups. <<<<< That is what makes you and others on here Obama lovers.

It has nothing to do with who you did or didn’t vote for. I voted for Obama for his first term too, but I maintained the ability to be critical of him, even though I voted for him. I did the same for Bush. Voted for him twice (second time because I didn’t like Kerry), but I still thought he was a terrible President … Obama isn’t far behind him in terms of suckiness, tho.

Since: Jul 09

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#29 Jun 12, 2013
It is also happening in other western nations not just the USA. I don't know if exactly monitoring phone calls in other nations, but there are many other extra security measures and even things like the authorities not needing a warrant to check your computer etc....

This is not normal in our free western nations. We are seeing and hearing of these things that threaten the usual freedoms we have enjoyed for a long time.

As much as much of it is wrong and as much as it angers us towards our govts, we seem to forget who has caused all this. It is not athiests, it is not Catholics, Baptists, Sikhs, hindus, Presbyterians, etc who have caused all these draconian securoty measures. Take a guess whose fault it is and we import more of them everyday into the western world.

“A *wink* and a smile!!”

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Since: Apr 10

USA

#31 Jun 14, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
Yeah, us "Obama lovers" must be the 99.99% that actually don't give a rat's a$$ about Google or the NSA evesdropping and selecting keywords out of our emails to sell more Viagra for the last 6 years.
Lighten up Francis...
***On a side note, being called an Obama lover because I chose not to put "another" clueless "businessman" and the lesser of two evils in the White House does not necessarily make me a dummy - it does, however make me smarter than the 48% that didn't***
LOL, GREAT POST!!!!!
And ditto for me.

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#32 Jun 15, 2013
I don't think we have all the facts.
Our gov't is slow to give us the truth.

“I know where you are,”

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#33 Jun 17, 2013
Ohio Cowgirl wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL, GREAT POST!!!!!
And ditto for me.
They will tirelessly continue to whine, snivel and cry over the last election results until 2016.

You know that expression, "Four more years?"

Get yourself prepared for another four years of Republican sniveling after 2016.

“"*" Always Thinking "*"”

Level 8

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Hoosierville

#34 Jun 17, 2013
Thief! now what politician could argue with that or not also be accused?

“I know where you are,”

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#35 Jun 17, 2013
I...rest...my...case.

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#36 Jun 17, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
They will tirelessly continue to whine, snivel and cry over the last election results until 2016.
You know that expression, "Four more years?"
Get yourself prepared for another four years of Republican sniveling after 2016.
The only one talking about the last election is you. You seem to think since he was elected president, he should be immune to criticism and anyone who criticizes him is acting unfair and upset about the last election.

Yep, on planet M69, aka "Mr. I'm an Independent," once you are elected President you should be treated like a despot and no one should say anything bad about anything you've done or else M69 will get butt hurt. This rule, however, only applies if you are a democrat President and doesn't apply to republicans ... which is kind of strange, considering M69 is an Independent ... in other news Nancy Pelosi is an Independent too!

“I know where you are,”

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#37 Jun 17, 2013
It's truly hilarious that the "sniveling" minority continues to kill millions of acres of trees in the form of Kleenex - and yet have the nerve to tell us that the "Greenhouse Theory" is a total bogus conspiracy.

“"*" Always Thinking "*"”

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Hoosierville

#38 Jun 17, 2013
Kelly Pickler says:
Save the trees use a 'snot rag'!
That girl is something else, read about her life then say yours is tuff.

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#39 Jun 17, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
It's truly hilarious that the "sniveling" minority continues to kill millions of acres of trees in the form of Kleenex - and yet have the nerve to tell us that the "Greenhouse Theory" is a total bogus conspiracy.
Please visit rif.org . No one on here has said anything about the "Greenhouse Theory" being bogus. Some of us, unlike you, actually ARE Independents, not flaming liberals, like you and OC, who try,(pathetically, I might add) to masquerade as Independents because you are too ashamed to admit you are a partisan hack flaming liberal who will ratify any behavior of Obama since he is a liberal, like you and because of this can do NO WRONG, in your eyes.

Since: Jun 09

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#40 Jun 17, 2013
Anybody who believes Barack Obama is a liberal- well, I've got some credit-default swaps to sell them!

“I know where you are,”

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#41 Jun 17, 2013
LMFGDAO!!!

Since: Jun 09

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#42 Jun 17, 2013
Jesus Christ- now THAT guy was a liberal!

Conservatives would fight him every step of the way!

Can you imagine the broohaha if he showed up today!?

They'd probably nail him to a cross!

“I know where you are,”

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#43 Jun 17, 2013
"Rick Santorum doesn't like sex. He doesn't like the pill. He really doesn't like condoms. He said if men are going to put something on to prevent procreation, nothing works better that a sweater vest." ~ Bill Maher

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#44 Jun 17, 2013
Maybe you should make a Rick Santorum thread and folks who wish to defend him can do so. Guy's a doosh, IMO. Still, his dooshiness doesn't make Obama's mistakes, non-mistakes, as you seem to think.

“I know where you are,”

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#45 Jun 17, 2013
"A special shout-out to the independent geniuses, who switched sides again because President Chocolate Jesus did not make it rain twenties in two years. You know what, you independents, if you can vote for Bush one year, and then the next election vote for Obama, and then go back to John Boehner, you're not independents, you're schizophrenic. You're Norman Bates -- sometimes you dress up as your mom and kill sluts in the shower, and sometimes you put on pants and mop up. Well, congratulations America, on Tuesday you put on the dress and killed again." ~ Bill Maher

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