Since: Jan 07

Location Shown

#83 Feb 10, 2014
I like them French fried potaters,...
FTW

Rochester, NY

#84 Feb 10, 2014
Richard Barlow wrote:
<quoted text>
t. And in this case, logic dictates that god is "bad". It not all that hard.
Not necessarily true. For the believer this life is only a small piece of the puzzle. Man does not have any idea of what is beyond or yet to come. Only God does..... So to say he is bad because of the suffering in this life does not hold up entirely. The grand outcome is not known or understood by man only God. Therefore it is impossible to understand the intentions or reasons for mans existence. If the Bible does hold true there can still be a good that comes of this suffering and evil in the world that is beyond it. It is hard as an agnostic or atheist to grasp these concepts, we don't believe in the very premise of a God. Even in this world suffering builds strength, it could stand to reason that we are being strengthened for something else beyond this world. Maybe it is all a spiritual exercise program to brings to Gods level.
Not flawless, but a thought to start with.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#85 Feb 10, 2014
Big Time wrote:
Your claim to understand "a good bit" of the bible is contradictory at best
You ain't the sharpest Knife in the Drawer,
Are Ya now,...??
Yes, yes. The sling blade reference is noted. I just don't play the game by your rules. I posted here for one reason only. To discuss the question put forth by the original poster. Since then, I have become someone that tiny minds "think" I am. I've been called "stupid". Then I became a child abuser and finally a "stalker". Funny how the original intent of the thread is purposefully muddled when posters have no pertinent input to offer. Or better yet, when their intellect isn't sufficient enough to allow them to stay on subject. That's when they resort to false accusations and lies. Just a normal day on topix I'd say.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#86 Feb 10, 2014
FTW wrote:
<quoted text>Not necessarily true. For the believer this life is only a small piece of the puzzle. Man does not have any idea of what is beyond or yet to come. Only God does..... So to say he is bad because of the suffering in this life does not hold up entirely. The grand outcome is not known or understood by man only God. Therefore it is impossible to understand the intentions or reasons for mans existence. If the Bible does hold true there can still be a good that comes of this suffering and evil in the world that is beyond it. It is hard as an agnostic or atheist to grasp these concepts, we don't believe in the very premise of a God. Even in this world suffering builds strength, it could stand to reason that we are being strengthened for something else beyond this world. Maybe it is all a spiritual exercise program to brings to Gods level.
Not flawless, but a thought to start with.
The "omniscient" part of a god is what I'm trying to get at here. By supposedly knowing how this will all turn our, even before creating it, makes absolutely no sense. It utterly illogical. For instance, let's say that you are sitting at home with nothing to do. While mulling over your options, you wonder what would happen if you got up out of your chair, walked to the kitchen, opened the refrigerator, removed an egg, walked outside and threw the egg into the air as high as possible. Now, even before doing this, you would know the outcome of such an action. So why do it? There can be only one answer. For your own amusement. You wanted to see the egg destroyed. It wouldn't matter if you had decided to cook the egg and eat it before you destroyed it or not. You still decided to cause its destruction before hand. Remember, in this case, you are the omniscient being. You "knew the outcome before taking the action. So why not just cook the egg without all of the other processes involved with its destruction?

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#87 Feb 10, 2014

Since: Jan 07

Location Shown

#89 Feb 11, 2014
Richard Barlow wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, yes. The sling blade reference is noted. I just don't play the game by your rules. I posted here for one reason only. To discuss the question put forth by the original poster. Since then, I have become someone that tiny minds "think" I am. I've been called "stupid". Then I became a child abuser and finally a "stalker". Funny how the original intent of the thread is purposefully muddled when posters have no pertinent input to offer. Or better yet, when their intellect isn't sufficient enough to allow them to stay on subject. That's when they resort to false accusations and lies. Just a normal day on topix I'd say.

Stupid is as stupid does,...

“September”

Level 8

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#90 Feb 11, 2014
FTW

Rochester, NY

#91 Feb 11, 2014
Richard Barlow wrote:
<quoted text>
The "omniscient" part of a god is what I'm trying to get at here. By supposedly knowing how this will all turn our, even before creating it, makes absolutely no sense. It utterly illogical. For instance, let's say that you are sitting at home with nothing to do. While mulling over your options, you wonder what would happen if you got up out of your chair, walked to the kitchen, opened the refrigerator, removed an egg, walked outside and threw the egg into the air as high as possible. Now, even before doing this, you would know the outcome of such an action. So why do it? There can be only one answer. For your own amusement. You wanted to see the egg destroyed. It wouldn't matter if you had decided to cook the egg and eat it before you destroyed it or not. You still decided to cause its destruction before hand. Remember, in this case, you are the omniscient being. You "knew the outcome before taking the action. So why not just cook the egg without all of the other processes involved with its destruction?
You're missing my point. The image is that God is omniscient.... We supposedly are not. There is no possible understanding of the Gods plan...... Like I said it is just a starting thought. Sure I wonder about somethings but I don't waste too much time figuring out every detail. I'm not a big believer but I still can reason the thought process of those that do. Who's to say that the God if does exists he does not also suffer maybe the idea is suffering is existence. Maybe the God reasons existence with suffering is still better than non-existence. Also, supposedly the Bible is Gods word recorded by man. Maybe man's word and understanding is not complete in it's description of completely omniscient, it is just man describing a concept the best he could but still fails to fully explain it. I tend to believe most ancient text on creation are just poetic and allegorical descriptions of certain concepts. They came from people who used oral tradition to explain things and used a poetic way of describing things to be able to remember them. Maybe modern man has lost the understanding to properly interpret them.... I think too many in our camp are to worried about what others believe, when in fact if your an atheist others beliefs don't make a damn bit of difference one way or the other. On the other hand for a christian to try and " save" an atheist is not the same at all. If they truly believe your soul is in danger then it is only moral of them to try and save you.
If you want watch this video of Penn. He explains my view on this pretty well.

Since: Jan 07

Location Shown

#92 Feb 11, 2014
I like to picture Jesus as a figure skater. He wears like a white outfit, and He does interpretive ice dances of my life's journey.
FTW

Rochester, NY

#93 Feb 11, 2014
That's very funny..... A fly marrying a bumble bee.....
Is That

Jackson, MO

#94 Feb 11, 2014
Jesus you are asking about?

"Why do you call me good ...?"
Is That

Jackson, MO

#95 Feb 11, 2014
Big Time wrote:
I like to picture Jesus as a figure skater. He wears like a white outfit, and He does interpretive ice dances of my life's journey.
Teehee !

You weren't there when I posted that BJ. Haha


Let IT Be

&

Jesus Christ Superstar
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

He is terrible/awesome Big Time (!)

Level 6

Since: May 13

Location hidden

#96 Feb 11, 2014
FTW wrote:
<quoted text>Not necessarily true. For the believer this life is only a small piece of the puzzle. Man does not have any idea of what is beyond or yet to come. Only God does..... So to say he is bad because of the suffering in this life does not hold up entirely. The grand outcome is not known or understood by man only God. Therefore it is impossible to understand the intentions or reasons for mans existence. If the Bible does hold true there can still be a good that comes of this suffering and evil in the world that is beyond it. It is hard as an agnostic or atheist to grasp these concepts, we don't believe in the very premise of a God. Even in this world suffering builds strength, it could stand to reason that we are being strengthened for something else beyond this world. Maybe it is all a spiritual exercise program to brings to Gods level.
Not flawless, but a thought to start with.
Definitely yes.

Tho, I would still have to question [whether atheist, agnostic, believer, irrespective] how our [mankind] common notion of 'good' does not appear to coincide with God's. Surely any suffering is unacceptable and if it is a means to an end then God, being Omnipotent, could have created another way to achieve His final outcome without such suffering as there is.
FTW

Rochester, NY

#97 Feb 11, 2014
Xcetera wrote:
<quoted text>
Definitely yes.
Tho, I would still have to question [whether atheist, agnostic, believer, irrespective] how our [mankind] common notion of 'good' does not appear to coincide with God's. Surely any suffering is unacceptable and if it is a means to an end then God, being Omnipotent, could have created another way to achieve His final outcome without such suffering as there is.
Ahhh, but the Bible is God inspired but still written by man... So it is quite within reason to note that maybe man's explanation does not fully explain Gods power. Maybe God does have rules that govern him as well. Man was just unable to understand those powers and used faulty language, or maybe the Bible is not a complete explanation. I'm not even gonna go into the possible String Theory explanations. I spent a long time trying to figure this out and eventually came to the conclusion I'm only gonna know for sure when I die.

Since: Jan 07

Location Shown

#98 Feb 11, 2014
I threw a bunch of Grandpa Chip's war medals off the bridge.
Richard Barlow

United States

#99 Feb 11, 2014
FTW wrote:
<quoted text>Ahhh, but the Bible is God inspired but still written by man... So it is quite within reason to note that maybe man's explanation does not fully explain Gods power. Maybe God does have rules that govern him as well. Man was just unable to understand those powers and used faulty language, or maybe the Bible is not a complete explanation. I'm not even gonna go into the possible String Theory explanations. I spent a long time trying to figure this out and eventually came to the conclusion I'm only gonna know for sure when I die.
Can't seem to get signed in, so I'll have to do this gray.
You bring up valid points. The idea that the bible was "wrongly" translated has been a theory for quite some time now. Could it be, that the bible is just a bunch of pie and cake recipes that were mistaken to be holy scripture because someone got the translation wrong? But that then brings up another question. If the bible is vague and contradictory because of "faulty language", why then does god not see this and rectify the situation. Seeing the confusion that such an error would make, wouldn't he want to set things right? It seems wrong to let the non believers think as they do because of a mistake in translation.
FTW

Rochester, NY

#100 Feb 12, 2014
Richard Barlow wrote:
<quoted text>
Can't seem to get signed in, so I'll have to do this gray.
You bring up valid points. The idea that the bible was "wrongly" translated has been a theory for quite some time now. Could it be, that the bible is just a bunch of pie and cake recipes that were mistaken to be holy scripture because someone got the translation wrong? But that then brings up another question. If the bible is vague and contradictory because of "faulty language", why then does god not see this and rectify the situation. Seeing the confusion that such an error would make, wouldn't he want to set things right? It seems wrong to let the non believers think as they do because of a mistake in translation.
Anything is possible. You're questions are not invalid but if you want possible answers please go back and reread my earlier posts. I'm saying not only is the possibility that the Bible is mistranslated but also the possibility that it is just misunderstood. My point is that as agnostics and atheist who cannot provide any creation and existence answers ourselves who are we to judge those who believe in a God when they are able to find those answers in the Bible?? Never really got why some agnostics and atheist are so self-righteous. Can't understand the animosity towards religion some have. I mean really it isn't much different than agnosticism or atheism as some want to believe.
Please don't take this as a personal attack, I don't mean it that way.

Since: Jan 07

Location Shown

#101 Feb 12, 2014
Richard Barlow wrote:
<quoted text>
Can't seem to get signed in, so I'll have to do this gray.
You bring up valid points. The idea that the bible was "wrongly" translated has been a theory for quite some time now. Could it be, that the bible is just a bunch of pie and cake recipes that were mistaken to be holy scripture because someone got the translation wrong? But that then brings up another question. If the bible is vague and contradictory because of "faulty language", why then does god not see this and rectify the situation. Seeing the confusion that such an error would make, wouldn't he want to set things right? It seems wrong to let the non believers think as they do because of a mistake in translation.

maybe you are a real Troll if you can't Sign in or Could Just be God working in a Mysterious way and all that jive as you put itt',...

Since: Jan 07

Location Shown

#102 Feb 12, 2014
FTW wrote:
<quoted text>Anything is possible. You're questions are not invalid but if you want possible answers please go back and reread my earlier posts. I'm saying not only is the possibility that the Bible is mistranslated but also the possibility that it is just misunderstood. My point is that as agnostics and atheist who cannot provide any creation and existence answers ourselves who are we to judge those who believe in a God when they are able to find those answers in the Bible?? Never really got why some agnostics and atheist are so self-righteous. Can't understand the animosity towards religion some have. I mean really it isn't much different than agnosticism or atheism as some want to believe.
Please don't take this as a personal attack, I don't mean it that way.


Keaton always said, "I don't believe in God, but I'm afraid of him.



" Well I believe in God, and the only thing that scares me is Keyser Soze.
Richard Barlow

United States

#103 Feb 12, 2014
FTW wrote:
<quoted text>Anything is possible. You're questions are not invalid but if you want possible answers please go back and reread my earlier posts. I'm saying not only is the possibility that the Bible is mistranslated but also the possibility that it is just misunderstood. My point is that as agnostics and atheist who cannot provide any creation and existence answers ourselves who are we to judge those who believe in a God when they are able to find those answers in the Bible?? Never really got why some agnostics and atheist are so self-righteous. Can't understand the animosity towards religion some have. I mean really it isn't much different than agnosticism or atheism as some want to believe.
Please don't take this as a personal attack, I don't mean it that way.
A personal attack never entered my mind. You have been a pleasure to exchange ideas with thus far.

I would like to reiterate my position here. I don't look down upon those of faith. They genuinely believe that there is some form of higher intelligence in the universe. My beef, if you want to call it that, is with religion and those that promote it. Religion wishes to impose itself into every facet of our lives. Everything from what we say to what we do and how we live our lives. It continually creeps into our political processes and laws. It should not be there. But beings that religion is man made, those very men wish to control all other men. It's not a faith thing. It's a power and control issue. Faith on the other hand is nothing other than a belief in something unseen and a knowledge of living ones life in a peaceful way. I as a non believer, try and live my life in a manner that I feel brings no harm to my fellow man. Much the same way that those with faith live. I just don't have faith in an unseen higher power. Religion conversely, establishes itself thru war, death and destruction. The bible is rife with the accounts of religions atrocities perpetrated upon man. For a religion that claims to be about love, the billions that have been killed because of it is a bit contradictory at best. I see religion as the greatest money making, mankind controlling scam perpetrated on the people in recorded history. It's perfect in its simplicity. You can't see it, it wants you to give us money, and you must do as it says or you'll go to hell. Well, the things it says "not" to do are nothing more than we as humans know not to do already. The majority of its laws are, to put it frankly, insane. Take for example, gods law on rape. If a woman is raped, she then must marry her rapist. Seriously??? The bible is full of that kind of psychotic reasoning. In some religions, when a woman is raped, she is to be put to death and the rapist pays a fine to her father because of the monitory loss he incurs from the sale of his daughter to marriage. If people want to have faith, I support them. But this religion thing is just crazy IMO.

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