Immigration reform making for strange bedfellows

Jan 29, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: WTAE-TV Pittsburgh

CIO President Richard Trumka and Chamber of Commerce President and CEO Tom Donohue are working together to reach an understanding about a guest worker program.

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81 - 100 of 180 Comments Last updated Feb 13, 2013

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#83
Feb 5, 2013
 

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Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
My buddy has a dairy farm up in WI and he said he has a few laborers he employs as needed Ö not full time, but as he needs them.
Also a lot of your concerns, can be solved with a more liberal visa system that allows workers to come here for seasonal work, but then go back home when the work is done.
If I'm going to get cheap food as a result of paying for illegal immigrants to pick food, but then get stuck paying for their babies to be born in our hospitals, paying to educate them, pay to provide them with free school lunches and breakfasts, and to provide them with free medicaid, Iíd rather pay more for food and have Americans do those jobs. People will do jobs, if they are paid to do them. Pay me enough money (way more than I make now Ö) and Iíll quit my desk job and go pick food.
I don't think anyone wants to pay more for fruits and vegetables than they do now. I've always said, "I'd shovel sh!t into the wind for if they paid me enough money - but who's going to give me that kinda' sh!t shovelin' money?"

That's the problem - no one will pick berries for 14 hours a day in 110+ degree Georgia heat - other than immigrant farmworkers. They aren't taking antone's job from them, since no one wants to do their job anyways.

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#84
Feb 5, 2013
 

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milwaukee69 wrote:
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I don't think anyone wants to pay more for fruits and vegetables than they do now. I've always said, "I'd shovel sh!t into the wind for if they paid me enough money - but who's going to give me that kinda' sh!t shovelin' money?"
That's the problem - no one will pick berries for 14 hours a day in 110+ degree Georgia heat - other than immigrant farmworkers. They aren't taking antone's job from them, since no one wants to do their job anyways.
If that is the case (and I don't think that this is proven ... we used to have a domestic farm labor force ... until they were undercut by illegals ... so it seems reasonable for me to assume that but for illegals we would have one, once again)), then this is why you have visas. Many folks from Mexico would be happy to come here for a few months and pick stuff and then go back home. They can probably make more in those few months than they would make all year back home.

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#85
Feb 5, 2013
 
Sublime1 wrote:
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If that is the case (and I don't think that this is proven ... we used to have a domestic farm labor force ... until they were undercut by illegals ... so it seems reasonable for me to assume that but for illegals we would have one, once again)), then this is why you have visas. Many folks from Mexico would be happy to come here for a few months and pick stuff and then go back home. They can probably make more in those few months than they would make all year back home.
You hit on an interesting point. My GF comes from a immigrant farm laborer family. He family moved up and down the Eastern seaboard all year round following the harvests. Just because its cold as heck up here in the Midwest doesn't necesarilly mean its cold as heck down South. Somewhere there is always produce to pick.

Here's that article I was talking about:

http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/archives/5238...
Dee Dee Dee

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#86
Feb 5, 2013
 

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Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>Your stats are way off...i grew up around farms.....harvest is labor intensive work....
It is labor intensive but the actualy field labor accounts for an average of 3% of the cost and that includes legal and illegal labor. Fuel, fertilizer, transportation, tax, post field labor, taxes farm profit, wholesale profit, retail profit administration,political lobbying, insurance, theft loss, spoilage the list of costs go on.
Estimates show that a doubling of farm labor costs would result in an increase of less than $400.00 a year to the average family of four's yearly food bill.

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#87
Feb 5, 2013
 
Dee Dee Dee wrote:
<quoted text>
It is labor intensive but the actualy field labor accounts for an average of 3% of the cost and that includes legal and illegal labor. Fuel, fertilizer, transportation, tax, post field labor, taxes farm profit, wholesale profit, retail profit administration,political lobbying, insurance, theft loss, spoilage the list of costs go on.
Estimates show that a doubling of farm labor costs would result in an increase of less than $400.00 a year to the average family of four's yearly food bill.
Double? Try quadruple...ain't nobody gonna' pick them beans for what an immigrant farm laborer makes.

You have to realize that Americans complain about a 3 cent increase at the pumps - now you want them paying more for fruits and vegetables?

<see my link above>

Plus, throw into the mix that most Ag businesses wouldn't be able to afford to pay that quadruple wage. Not as many growers equates to limited supplies - and we all know what that equates to, right?
Forum1

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#88
Feb 5, 2013
 
Mexican wrote:
So what should 'we' be called, "immigrant farm workers"...(IFW) similar to (WPA), "payed slaves", chino cabbage choppers [when China takes over the US], Tequila tailgaters, all just part of Obamas "Go Green" strategy.
IFW is the last hope for KY tobacco farmers, no-one else wants to work that hard.
Fyi in the 1950s and 60 Japanese immigrants came to California as legal immigrant farm workers. Japanese now days don't immigrate to the US much because they have created a good economy. Oh yeah they have peaches that cost 6 dollars and cantalopes that cost 100 dollars but they keep buying them. Why reform our country to suit you create and built your own country using ingenunity
Grizz

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#90
Feb 5, 2013
 
Excellent video of Milwaukee speaking

http://www.youtube.com/watch...
Dee Dee Dee

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milwaukee69 wrote:
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Double? Try quadruple...ain't nobody gonna' pick them beans for what an immigrant farm laborer makes.
You have to realize that Americans complain about a 3 cent increase at the pumps - now you want them paying more for fruits and vegetables?
<see my link above>
Plus, throw into the mix that most Ag businesses wouldn't be able to afford to pay that quadruple wage. Not as many growers equates to limited supplies - and we all know what that equates to, right?
3 cents at the pump? Try 50 but the point is the increase would be negligible and it would make smaller scale farming profitable again. I live in the Mecca for organic and small scale farming and the killer for them is that they have higher labor costs because they hire local and legal when they need labor. That is why locally grown organic fruits and veggies are so expensive relative to the mass produced, chemically treated, non-environmentally friendly, illegal labor produced stuff that is shipped for days to your local Wal-Mart.
If spending a few dollars a week extra to feed your family so that an American can have a job is too much then you can go down to the farm and get a job and get off welfare. Working will now pay better than welfare.

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#92
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milwaukee69 wrote:
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You hit on an interesting point. My GF comes from a immigrant farm laborer family. He family moved up and down the Eastern seaboard all year round following the harvests. Just because its cold as heck up here in the Midwest doesn't necesarilly mean its cold as heck down South. Somewhere there is always produce to pick.
Here's that article I was talking about:
http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/archives/5238...
That may very well be true. However, I still firmly believe Americans will do these jobs if the pay is there. I also am willing to pay a little bit more for food to put Americans to work.

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milwaukee69 wrote:
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Got anything else in like an independent news source?
No such source exists. They are all biased, one way or the other.
If you can amass enough sources that generally agree, then that is usually close to the truth.

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#94
Feb 6, 2013
 
Sublime1 wrote:
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That may very well be true. However, I still firmly believe Americans will do these jobs if the pay is there. I also am willing to pay a little bit more for food to put Americans to work.
As long as the leftists don't do this by collectivising farms...

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#95
Feb 6, 2013
 
Sublime1 wrote:
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That may very well be true. However, I still firmly believe Americans will do these jobs if the pay is there. I also am willing to pay a little bit more for food to put Americans to work.
Come on Drag, who are you kidding? You Conservatives are already complaining about the end of the SS Tax Holiday (Obama's doing), paying more at the pump (Obama's fault) and no jobs (Obamacare's fault). This experiment has already been tried in Georgia with disasterous results. Even the out-of-work folks in Georgia ain't gonna' pick those beans in 100+ heat for 14 hours a day. There is currently a job surplus of over 3 million jobs in the United States - what makes you think anyone's going to work the fields now?

It's just not the labor costs that will drive produce costs up - less and less Ag businesses will drive costs over the top. Just a little dust storm in the 1930's drove produce costs to a level that only the very rich could afford. And it's just not produce - chicken plants like Perdue in Georgia employ an abundance of immigrant labor.

Face it, some jobs are just meant to be "farmed out."

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#96
Feb 6, 2013
 
***sorry, Subby

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#97
Feb 6, 2013
 
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
Come on Drag, who are you kidding? You Conservatives are already complaining about the end of the SS Tax Holiday (Obama's doing), paying more at the pump (Obama's fault) and no jobs (Obamacare's fault). This experiment has already been tried in Georgia with disasterous results. Even the out-of-work folks in Georgia ain't gonna' pick those beans in 100+ heat for 14 hours a day. There is currently a job surplus of over 3 million jobs in the United States - what makes you think anyone's going to work the fields now?
It's just not the labor costs that will drive produce costs up - less and less Ag businesses will drive costs over the top. Just a little dust storm in the 1930's drove produce costs to a level that only the very rich could afford. And it's just not produce - chicken plants like Perdue in Georgia employ an abundance of immigrant labor.
Face it, some jobs are just meant to be "farmed out."
So, you believe in having 2nd(and 3rd) class citizens? Slaves? Indentured servants? Wowsers! How very progressive of you!

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#98
Feb 6, 2013
 
milwaukee69 wrote:
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Come on Drag, who are you kidding? You Conservatives are already complaining about the end of the SS Tax Holiday (Obama's doing), paying more at the pump (Obama's fault) and no jobs (Obamacare's fault).
Republicans have been pushing to abolish the SS tax Holiday for 2 years:

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/article/20130...

So, itís hard for you to say that Conservatives are complaining.

I also find it amusing that for years, Obama has been blaming Bush for everything and anything under the sun, but now 4 years down the road, nothing is still his fault. How come everything was Bushís fault, but nothing is his? The economy contracted last quarter, and guess what, according to the White House, that wasnít Obamaís fault at all Ö it was the fault of someone else ... it was the fault of the fiscal cliff and the uncertainty generated by the fact that negotiations in Congress went until the 11th hour Ö and he played no role whatsoever in the fact that negotiations went until the 11th hour Ö nope he had nothing to do with that Ö nothing at all.

When do we actually get to blame the guy for something? Are we supposed to believe, as he would like, that he's never made one single mistake while in office?

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milwaukee69 wrote:
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This experiment has already been tried in Georgia with disasterous results. Even the out-of-work folks in Georgia ain't gonna' pick those beans in 100+ heat for 14 hours a day. There is currently a job surplus of over 3 million jobs in the United States - what makes you think anyone's going to work the fields now?
I actually havenít heard much about this so called disaster, you speak of. I know a big deal was initially made of it, and from what I have read, some crops did not get picked, but I donít think it was nearly the disaster you think it is. You act like there are no farmers left in these states and all their land has gone fallow.

I imagine, what has already happened and what will be complete in just a few yearís time, is that farmers will adjust, whether that be via raising wages to attract lawful labor, switching to crops that are less labor intensive or switching to mechanical harvesting (necessity is the mother of all inventions).

Let us not forget that farmers are businessmen, first and foremost. They arenít dumb. They arenít going to just leave their fields go fallow and do nothing with their land. They will adapt and maximize their investments. If the return on their investments has declined because American taxpayers refuse to continue to subsidize their illegal immigrant labor supply, I will cry no more than I will cry when the margins of a rich factory owner goes down because the INS has raided his factory and he has lost his cheap illegal immigrant labor supply.
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
It's just not the labor costs that will drive produce costs up - less and less Ag businesses will drive costs over the top. Just a little dust storm in the 1930's drove produce costs to a level that only the very rich could afford. And it's just not produce - chicken plants like Perdue in Georgia employ an abundance of immigrant labor.
Iíve already been through this. Whether the person working at the Perdue Chicken plant in Georgia is making $8 an hour or $16 an hour translates into mere pennies of additional cost for each chicken. Any given worker simply doesnít spend much time processing any one chicken such that the costs are that different. The thing is, to a place like Perdue, who may process 10,000,000 chickens, saving a nickel per chicken, is a huge savings to them, and thatís why they seek out this cheap labor. However, assuming the worst case scenario, which is that Perdue simply passes off that entire additional nickel per chicken onto consumers (which is by no means likely to be the case), to the average consumer, who buys 10 or 20 chickens a year, paying a nickel more per chicken isnít going to affect the bottom line, much.

I also bet you a lot of folks would take a job making $16 working at a Chicken plant.

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#100
Feb 6, 2013
 
milwaukee69 wrote:
***sorry, Subby
For what?

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#101
Feb 6, 2013
 
Sublime1 wrote:
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For what?
I originally addressed the post to Dragoon.

We will see in the coming months if you are correct. I have a very large interest in this since a lot of farm jobs are up here in Wisconsin, along with my brother's. But I will tell you this, even in the upper Midwest small farm towns - kids may be helping out on the farms until they're 18 - after that they are gone. It seems that no one wants to be a farmer anymore. And for good reason - farmers nowadays barely pull down any profit - especially following a dry year such as last year. They live right on the edge of existence. I've seen farms go under simply because one season's corn crop was flooded. Sad.
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milwaukee69 wrote:
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I originally addressed the post to Dragoon.
We will see in the coming months if you are correct. I have a very large interest in this since a lot of farm jobs are up here in Wisconsin, along with my brother's. But I will tell you this, even in the upper Midwest small farm towns - kids may be helping out on the farms until they're 18 - after that they are gone. It seems that no one wants to be a farmer anymore. And for good reason - farmers nowadays barely pull down any profit - especially following a dry year such as last year. They live right on the edge of existence. I've seen farms go under simply because one season's corn crop was flooded. Sad.
Family farms are competing with the corporate farms and as long as illegal aliens are filling farm jobs working for peanuts for the large cooperate farms you will see fewer and fewer family farms. Even the Amish are being squeezed out and they live and work even cheaper than illegal aliens.
Dee Dee Dee

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$9.50/hr for farm labor in Georgia and they cannot understand why people are not rushing for jobs that would put a family of 4 living in Georgia under the poverty level by about $4,000.00 a year.
Naturally tax payers would have to subsidize anybody who works on a farm and has a family. I would rather pay more at the store so that the farm worker does not need to collect entitlements which increase taxes. Of course those who do not pay taxes would rather cheaper food prices.

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