Immigration reform making for strange bedfellows

Jan 29, 2013 Full story: WTAE-TV Pittsburgh 180

CIO President Richard Trumka and Chamber of Commerce President and CEO Tom Donohue are working together to reach an understanding about a guest worker program.

Full Story

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#63 Feb 1, 2013
MW69, the average cost in public school to educate one student is over 10k per year. How many kids do these folks have on average? Let's be conservative and say 3 kids on average, just for the sake of argument.

That translates into over 30k annually. How does someone making $8 an hour or whatever pay that much in taxes?

Now factor in the cost of birth for each one of those children, which they don't pay for. Now factor in free school breakfasts and lunches, at $3.50 to $4 bucks a day, times 3 kids, for 18 years. That's a couple thousand alone, annually. Now factor in Medicaid, times 3. That's more than a couple thousand, annually.

Not even including the costs of them giving birth at our hospitals, we are talking 40-45k thousand dollars a year in burden on Americans imposed by this hypothetical illegal immigrant family.

The amount of money paid in taxes by such a hypothetical family and the amount saved on labor, can't even come close to paying for all of this.

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#64 Feb 1, 2013
The free school lunches would be for 12 years, not 18. But also I forgot to add, now factor in food stamps annually for 18 years.

We are easily at 40k-45k cost annually, conservatively speaking.

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#65 Feb 1, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
Ahhh...and how many jobs were unfilled?
The US has 3.2 million unfilled job openings and rising. The problem is, whether you're a new grad or someone just looking for something - people are waaaaaay too selective nowadays. Long-term unemployment killing skills, a lousy housing market hurting labor mobilityóand though itís extremely unpopular to say, extended unemployment benefits are likely having an impact on at least some folksí choices in what jobs theyíll agree to take and when.
Itís not extremely unpopular to say that. Itís true. Studies have shown people are much likely to go back to work when their unemployment benefits expire. People arenít going to pack their family up and move across the country to take a job, if they can get by on unemployment (me, I was out of work two times and we moved halfway across the country Ö Iím the primary breadwinner and I follow the money) You think Obama and democrats realize that?
And people will take these jobs Ö they just arenít going to move their family across the country to compete with folks willing to work for peanuts and arenít going to do so when they can collect unemployment for a year. Also, if we werenít spending so much money subsidizing certain businesses illegal immigrant work force, weíd have more money to provide assistance in training Americans to take these jobs.

My assistantís husband got let go from his job a few months ago and heís taking advantage of a government program that is allowing him to go back to school and get a degree in a new area. Part of getting the funding was he had to show that itís an area where there is a need for more employees.

^^^^^^^^ these are the types of things we need to be doing Ö not worrying about illegal foreign nationals and how to care for them and make their life better, at our expense.
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
Lastly, look at it this way - if we do eliminate or regulate immigrant farm labor, that's another 1.2 million more jobs to add to that 3.2 million.
Want to take a guess why US companies ships jobs overseas?
You canít ship farm jobs overseas Ö those jobs by their nature have to be done here. What do you think farmers are suddenly just going to let their land go fallow? We used to have a domestic farm labor force, until they got undercut by illegal immigrants. The solution is to pay people a bit more. You certainly canít do things over night and shock the system and maybe there is a roll to be played by issuing more temporary visas (but they go back Ö once picking season is over and have their babies in Mexico), but it is certainly possible that we could and should have a domestic farm labor force.

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#66 Feb 1, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Itís not extremely unpopular to say that. Itís true. Studies have shown people are much likely to go back to work when their unemployment benefits expire.
This article even points to this phenomena:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/economy/...

"The development also has renewed a debate about whether such payments encourage job seekers to stay unemployed longer while hunting for a position most to their liking. Some studies have found that extended benefits increase unemployment by a half to one percentage point or even more.

"If we start reducing unemployment benefits, I think workers will make tough decisions they have to make to either reduce their wage demands or move to states like North Dakota where the economy is doing better," says Chris Edwards, an economist at the conservative Cato Institute.

Hank Finke, 54, of Westborough, Mass., concedes that after he lost his job as a sales vice president, he was unwilling to accept anything less than a national sales manager position and 75% of his former pay. But after his unemployment benefits ran out last year, he started considering regional sales head jobs and a 50% pay cut. He still hasn't found work.

Cullinan says her job search grew more desperate after she received a notice in April that her benefits would end in June, 20 weeks earlier than she had anticipated. Michigan cut maximum benefits from 99 to 79 weeks earlier this year because the state's unemployment rate was no longer rising. When Cullinan lost her $32,500-a-year office-manager job, she first sought similar positions but quickly decided she'd settle for being a part-time cashier at McDonald's or a Starbucks barista."

*****

Does having to settle for a cashier job suck; F' yeah it does, but it's better than doing nothing and collecting a check, IMO.

Level 7

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#67 Feb 1, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
While I'm not a veteran, I share all your views. I like to call it common sense. Somewhere along the way, we've lost that as a nation.
Any proof that the Obama administration is working with the Mexican consulate, to get illegals to sign up for foodstamps for their anchor babies?

“Reduce immigration levels”

Level 5

Since: Dec 06

Kings Mountain, NC

#68 Feb 2, 2013
IMMIGRATION REFORM FAVORS ILLEGAL ALIENS AHEAD OF AMERICANS
http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frost...

Gallup shows only 37 percent support path to citizenship for illegal immigrants
http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercool...

Obama To Discontinue US Radar Border Security System for Southern US
http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-to-disc...

Marco Rubio Is a Big, Dumb Idiot
http://politicaloutcast.com/2013/02/marco-rub...

Tennessee Food Stamps/Welfare Application Instruction in Six Different Languages

Something just not right about thisÖfor citizenship you must be able to speak and read English. Noted no Chinese though, theyíre smart enough to learn English before coming here.
http://randysrightiii.wordpress.com/2013/01/3...

VICTIMS OF ILLEGAL ALIENS
http://www.ojjpac.org/memorial.asp
div.wpadvert>div { margin-top: 1em; }

Level 7

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#69 Feb 3, 2013
The Examiner must be a totally reichwing site, as it consistantly provide's only one side of every topic....kinda like Fox.....

Level 8

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#70 Feb 4, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
I can buy into your statement I guess. But may I remind you - the most dangerous city in the world, Juarez, Mexico - most if not all of the killing are done via street firearms - meaning handguns and shotguns. Because the population literally sits on top of each other, grenades and rocket launchers are never used. And average of 8 people a day dies in Juarez, Mexico of gun fire.
and they have strict gun control. Citizens may not have firearms. Only criminals and police have firearms in Juarez. Except when the police get them taken away and replaced with slingshots. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/16763344/

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#71 Feb 5, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>You canít ship farm jobs overseas Ö those jobs by their nature have to be done here. What do you think farmers are suddenly just going to let their land go fallow? We used to have a domestic farm labor force, until they got undercut by illegal immigrants.
You simply haven't thought it entirely through, though. Farmers in the SE are already being put out of business by immigration laws. And those that have elected to ride out the storm on right on the ragged edge of bankruptcy. I'm not advocating no immigration laws - but as we all know, my grandson that attends college won't be working the fields this spring. How about your's? Who's going to pick the cabbage? In 110+ degree heat? 12-14 hours a day, 6 days a week? Not any white people, or black for that matter - that I know of.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#72 Feb 5, 2013
Naughtyrobot wrote:
<quoted text>and they have strict gun control. Citizens may not have firearms. Only criminals and police have firearms in Juarez. Except when the police get them taken away and replaced with slingshots. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/16763344/
Yeah, and we all know how well that works in Chicago, right?

Bottom line is - no matter what the law is, enforcement is key - both Juarez and Chicago lack both enforcement and leadership.

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#73 Feb 5, 2013
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>Any proof that the Obama administration is working with the Mexican consulate, to get illegals to sign up for foodstamps for their anchor babies?
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/07/19/se...

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#74 Feb 5, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
Got anything else in like an independent news source?

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#75 Feb 5, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., top Republican on the Senate Budget Committee, raised concerns about the program in a letter to Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack -- one week after he complained about a Spanish-language ad campaign encouraging residents to go on food stamps.

The USDA ended the campaign following criticism, but Sessions warned in his letter that the U.S.-Mexico partnership is a symptom of the same approach.

His concern -- that Mexican immigrants are being guided toward government assistance instead of "gainful employment."

"His concern?"

Is that anything like Richard Mourrdock's "concerns" about rape?

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#76 Feb 5, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
You simply haven't thought it entirely through, though. Farmers in the SE are already being put out of business by immigration laws. And those that have elected to ride out the storm on right on the ragged edge of bankruptcy. I'm not advocating no immigration laws - but as we all know, my grandson that attends college won't be working the fields this spring. How about your's? Who's going to pick the cabbage? In 110+ degree heat? 12-14 hours a day, 6 days a week? Not any white people, or black for that matter - that I know of.
As I said, you canít shock the system and do it overnight, like Alabama did. It also needs to accompany a reform in the number of visas we issue for seasonal workers. Any expansion in visa's needs to accompany some sort of employment verification system to prevent folks from overstaying their visas.

In terms of folks attending college working fields, I never said that was the case. A lot of folks arenít cut out for college, contrary to what man folks think, however. We are ALWAYS going to have a supply of unskilled labor. What are these folks to do Ö nothing, and collect welfare? The days of working at the local steel mill for 30-40 years, making a middle class wage, and then collecting a pension in retirement are long gone.

I also donít see what color of skin has to do with it. My wifeís grandfather was a farm hand. He was 100% Norwegian as was his wife. My brothers and sisters also worked in the summer detasseling corn (I was too young). I worked on a dairy farm on hot days stacking hay in the barn (easy 110+ inside a barn on a hot day)Ö also did the same for my mom, for her horses, which I fed and watered, twice a day (I used to run out in a pair of boxer shorts and rubber boots through snow on days colder than a w1tches tit, and fly up the ladder to the hay mow, throw some hay down, throw it to the horses and run my a$s back inside as fast as I could). I drove tractors and did lots of farm chores, shoveled shyte until my back ached. I actually would have liked to have been a farmer. If a boy can do these things, so can any man.

I happen to think there is nothing wrong with hard work. I respect a man who does it, and I have none for a man who would rather sit on his a$s and have others provide for him or who thinks heís too good for it. Iíve done it (I used to work as a laborer in construction during the summer time in high school Ö lots of digging and doing the jobs others didnít want to do). I know.

I'm not too good for anything. I take pride in what I do and am pretty darn sure, when it comes to physical labor, I can leave many a man catching his breath or wanting to quit before I'm ready to call it a day. I take pride in that shyte.

Level 7

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#77 Feb 5, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
You might want to read that first.....ESPECIALLY THE PART THAT STATES THE PROGRAM WAS INITIATED BY THE....George W. Bush Administration.......THANKS... ..

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#78 Feb 5, 2013
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>You might want to read that first.....ESPECIALLY THE PART THAT STATES THE PROGRAM WAS INITIATED BY THE....George W. Bush Administration.......THANKS... ..
You say ďthanksĒ as if Iím the polar opposite to you Ö a republican hack. I thought Bush sucked.

All you are saying is that Obama sucks at least as bad. There is nothing stopping Obama from putting a stop to this program. The fact that it was initiated under Bushís watch doesnít change this.

You seem content with a President who refuses to remedy poor policy decisions from previous administrations, simply because you are a democrat and our current president is one as well.

Sorry, I expect more from our President. He works for me. If someone worked for me and every time I asked him about some fíd thing up going on under his watch, he pointed the finger at his predecessor, Iíd say that very well may be true, but if you are coming to me and implicitly acknowledging that this was a poor decision by pointing the finger at your predecessor, this still doesnít exculpate you, since youíve refused to do anything about it and have continued with this policy on your watch.

Same thing with the prescription drug plan. Dude whined about Bush passing it and not funding it, but instead of remedying it, he created Obamacare and left the prescription drug plan unfunded ... as if there is nothing wrong with having our children and grandchildren pay for the current generation of retiree's prescription drug care.

Dude is no different than any politician.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#79 Feb 5, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I worked on a dairy farm on hot days stacking hay in the barn (easy 110+ inside a barn on a hot day)Ö also did the same for my mom, for her horses, which I fed and watered, twice a day (I used to run out in a pair of boxer shorts and rubber boots through snow on days colder than a w1tches tit, and fly up the ladder to the hay mow, throw some hay down, throw it to the horses and run my a$s back inside as fast as I could). I drove tractors and did lots of farm chores, shoveled shyte until my back ached. I actually would have liked to have been a farmer. If a boy can do these things, so can any man.
I happen to think there is nothing wrong with hard work. I respect a man who does it, and I have none for a man who would rather sit on his a$s and have others provide for him or who thinks heís too good for it. Iíve done it (I used to work as a laborer in construction during the summer time in high school Ö lots of digging and doing the jobs others didnít want to do). I know.
I'm not too good for anything. I take pride in what I do and am pretty darn sure, when it comes to physical labor, I can leave many a man catching his breath or wanting to quit before I'm ready to call it a day. I take pride in that shyte.
My brother owns a dairy farm up here - I know what it takes to work "before the sun comes up" and "follow the last cow home." Truth be told, that work ethic that you and I were raised on, doesn't work anymore. Back when we were young, the farm work was the only option - it was a family business, you had no choice. Nowadays, even children of farmers don't want to have anything to do with farming. They'd much rather go to college and get a white collar job instead of workin' the fields. Georgia farmers have had issues with so-called "local labor" for decades. I use Georgia as an example because I used to live there. It was funny because the same people who were against immigrants working the fields were relatives of the same farmers who were complaining that they couldn't make a living without them.

It's a Catch-22. Our agriculural system can't live without them, but the people who depend on agriculture for their daily food can't seem to live with them.

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#80 Feb 5, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., top Republican on the Senate Budget Committee, raised concerns about the program in a letter to Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack -- one week after he complained about a Spanish-language ad campaign encouraging residents to go on food stamps.
The USDA ended the campaign following criticism, but Sessions warned in his letter that the U.S.-Mexico partnership is a symptom of the same approach.
His concern -- that Mexican immigrants are being guided toward government assistance instead of "gainful employment."
"His concern?"
Is that anything like Richard Mourrdock's "concerns" about rape?
I'm not sure what anyone's comments about rape have to do with the fact that it is dumber than shyte to encourage illegal foreign nationals to sign up for food stamps. Applying for food stamps for your anchor babies should be automatic grounds for deportation before you have more anchor babies.

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#81 Feb 5, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
My brother owns a dairy farm up here - I know what it takes to work "before the sun comes up" and "follow the last cow home." Truth be told, that work ethic that you and I were raised on, doesn't work anymore. Back when we were young, the farm work was the only option - it was a family business, you had no choice. Nowadays, even children of farmers don't want to have anything to do with farming. They'd much rather go to college and get a white collar job instead of workin' the fields. Georgia farmers have had issues with so-called "local labor" for decades. I use Georgia as an example because I used to live there. It was funny because the same people who were against immigrants working the fields were relatives of the same farmers who were complaining that they couldn't make a living without them.
It's a Catch-22. Our agriculural system can't live without them, but the people who depend on agriculture for their daily food can't seem to live with them.
My buddy has a dairy farm up in WI and he said he has a few laborers he employs as needed Ö not full time, but as he needs them.

Also a lot of your concerns, can be solved with a more liberal visa system that allows workers to come here for seasonal work, but then go back home when the work is done.

If I'm going to get cheap food as a result of paying for illegal immigrants to pick food, but then get stuck paying for their babies to be born in our hospitals, paying to educate them, pay to provide them with free school lunches and breakfasts, and to provide them with free medicaid, Iíd rather pay more for food and have Americans do those jobs. People will do jobs, if they are paid to do them. Pay me enough money (way more than I make now Ö) and Iíll quit my desk job and go pick food.

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#82 Feb 5, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
Got anything else in like an independent news source?
I couldn't find any of the so called "independent new sources" who were reporting on it. They were apparently too busy talking about stuff that really matters ... like legitimate rape comments.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Weird Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
A Look At American Jihadis: Why Do They Fight? 16 min TALLYHO 8541 24
What are you thinking about now? (Jun '10) 18 min ---Word Woman--- 20,579
***Keep a Word~Drop a Word*** (Jan '10) 20 min National Geographix 77,403
It Takes 7 Police Agencies to Break Up Wedding ... 25 min factcheck 23
Last Word - Spelled Out G*A*M*E 27 min Vector aka Victor... 70
What song are you listening to right now? (Apr '08) 29 min wichita-rick 147,023
Change "1" letter =ONLY= (Oct '12) 33 min National Geographix 3,644
El's Kitchen (Feb '09) 2 hr TALLYHO 8541 36,521
New trolls on the block club (Mar '11) 4 hr Cecil B DeMille 955
•••

Weird People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

•••