Immigration reform making for strange...

Immigration reform making for strange bedfellows

There are 180 comments on the WTAE-TV Pittsburgh story from Jan 29, 2013, titled Immigration reform making for strange bedfellows. In it, WTAE-TV Pittsburgh reports that:

CIO President Richard Trumka and Chamber of Commerce President and CEO Tom Donohue are working together to reach an understanding about a guest worker program.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at WTAE-TV Pittsburgh.

Level 8

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#43 Feb 1, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
The cartels don't want to be in the US - they're content to stay where they are right now - in Juarez, Mexico - right across the border.
The bottom line is - you will find very few Americans, including you and I, that want to work in 100+ degree heat for 14 hours a day picking berries. Immigrant farm workers, like them or not - have a place in the American labor system. They fill the void where no one else wants to work. You won't get any college student - dating back to the 1950's - who wants to pick cabbage for a side job.
It's America - we're above manual (pronounced Man-well) labor.
There are more cartel members in the U.S. than you may think. In the sleepy town of LeRoy, police arrested a Mexican cartel boss in Save-A-Lot. They have to keep an eye on the pipeline, expand distribution territory and the U.S. has some nice standards of living. Terrorists and criminals all too easily cross our borders.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#44 Feb 1, 2013
Naughtyrobot wrote:
<quoted text>There are more cartel members in the U.S. than you may think. In the sleepy town of LeRoy, police arrested a Mexican cartel boss in Save-A-Lot. They have to keep an eye on the pipeline, expand distribution territory and the U.S. has some nice standards of living. Terrorists and criminals all too easily cross our borders.
You'll always have that problem, unless you close the borders - in and out. And you realize the dangers of becoming a seperatist nation, right (aka: Nazi Germany)?

I think we need to hold Mexico accountable. Their violence problem is now our's too. Closing the US/Mexican border would choke a lot of businesses that depend on that border being open. I worked for about 8 months in Satillo, Mexico. One of the highest quality automotive engines in the world is made in Satillo - the Chrysler Hemi. Not everything that comes from Mexico is bad.

Level 7

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#45 Feb 1, 2013
Naughtyrobot wrote:
<quoted text>There are more cartel members in the U.S. than you may think. In the sleepy town of LeRoy, police arrested a Mexican cartel boss in Save-A-Lot. They have to keep an eye on the pipeline, expand distribution territory and the U.S. has some nice standards of living. Terrorists and criminals all too easily cross our borders.
Legalizing and taxing marijuana, would do wonders to cut down the strength of these cartels.........and help our economy.....

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#46 Feb 1, 2013
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>Legalizing and taxing marijuana, would do wonders to cut down the strength of these cartels.........and help our economy.....
Not to mention increasing the value of my Taco Bell and Frito Lay stock.

:o)

Level 8

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#47 Feb 1, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
You'll always have that problem, unless you close the borders - in and out. And you realize the dangers of becoming a seperatist nation, right (aka: Nazi Germany)?
I think we need to hold Mexico accountable. Their violence problem is now our's too. Closing the US/Mexican border would choke a lot of businesses that depend on that border being open. I worked for about 8 months in Satillo, Mexico. One of the highest quality automotive engines in the world is made in Satillo - the Chrysler Hemi. Not everything that comes from Mexico is bad.
Sure, but we could do a much beter job of securing the borders. Some folks in the current administration want to blame Mexico's violence problem on American gun stores and the 2nd amendment, nonsense. I don't advocate closing the border off from legal traffic and legal immigration. We should deport illegals, blanket amnesty is a slap in the face to legal immigrants that jumped through the hoops to get here. There are reforms needed to legal immigration, so let's fix that too.

“I looked, and behold,”

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#48 Feb 1, 2013
Go Blue Forever wrote:
No matter how hard the republicans and democrasts, in the senate work together.....the tea party House republicans will kill this bill, as they don't want any progress, while President Blackula is in office.....plus they know, in 2014 they are gone....
How is it progress to add 12-20 million new citizens who are unskilled labor and who live at or below the poverty line? How is it progress to provide 12-20 million highly impoverished foreign nationals with free Obamacare, food stamps, subsidized housing, medicare when they retire and SS? Not only will they not pay more in taxes ... at least at the federal level ... if anything they will get earned income tax credits, which is a form of welfare. Barely half of all households in the U.S. pay even one dime in federal income tax ... how can it be that highly impoverished foreign nationals, if they become citizens are going to be paying all these taxes? Any taxes they pay, they will get back, because of credits and deductions, and then some, because of the earned income tax credit.

We already have to pay for every baby (and they tend to have a lot more than citizens) they have in our hospitals. We already have to educate their anchor babies, and provide them with free breakfast and lunch at school (don't believe me ... go to any school in the morning and see who is getting breakfast in the morning), provide them with medicare.

If you think folks living at or below the poverty line come anywhere close to paying more in taxes than they receive in government benefits, you need only look to American citizens who are similarly situated to know this can't possibly be true.

This whole talk of amnesty is merely jocking between the democrats and republicans to get votes. They would sell their mothers out if it meant more votes. They are simply selling out REAL AMERICANs so they can get votes of illegal immigrants (who will be able to vote should amnesty be granted), their anchor babies (which I do not believe should be granted birthright citizenship), and those who are foolishly sympathetic to their cause ... mostly because they haven't taken the time to research the true cost of illegal immigration imposed upon this country.

Illegal immigration drives down wages for domestic unskilled citizens and removes many jobs from them ... this in turn makes it more likely that U.S. citizens themselves will require entitlement prams.

We all agree that sending jobs offshore is a bad thing, but illegal immigration is much worse. They take jobs that by their nature, often times cannot be shipped offshore ... landscaping jobs, construction jobs, and many jobs they do, by their nature must be done here. They take these jobs and when they get paid they send large portions of their income abroad (remittances from the U.S. is one of the largest sources of income for Mexico), where it stimulates a foreign economy, not the U.S., in much the same way that sending a job overseas stimulates a foreign economy. The thing is, when a job gets sent to China, we as taxpayers, don't get stuck paying for a Chinaman to have a large brood of children in our hospitals, pay to educate his large brood of children, pay to provide the Chinaman with emergency healthcare free of charge should he be required to go to an emergency room, pay to provide his children with Medicaid, food stamps and free school lunches and breakfasts. For these reasons illegal immigration is so much worse.

“ASPIRE 2 INSPIRE B4 U EXPIRE”

Level 8

Since: Jul 08

USA

#49 Feb 1, 2013
Naughtyrobot wrote:
<quoted text>Sure, but we could do a much beter job of securing the borders. Some folks in the current administration want to blame Mexico's violence problem on American gun stores and the 2nd amendment, nonsense. I don't advocate closing the border off from legal traffic and legal immigration. We should deport illegals, blanket amnesty is a slap in the face to legal immigrants that jumped through the hoops to get here. There are reforms needed to legal immigration, so let's fix that too.
Legal amnesty did not work the last time it was used. It only exacerbated the issue. Bringing more and more illegals here, in the hope that the oh so compassionate Americans would grant them amnesty too. And if that doesn't work, then trot out the tear jerk factor of separating families, who would not need to be separated if they had stayed in their own country until they had the legal right to be here. And then pull out the worn out old excuse that they do jobs that no one else will.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#50 Feb 1, 2013
Naughtyrobot wrote:
<quoted text>Sure, but we could do a much beter job of securing the borders. Some folks in the current administration want to blame Mexico's violence problem on American gun stores and the 2nd amendment, nonsense. I don't advocate closing the border off from legal traffic and legal immigration. We should deport illegals, blanket amnesty is a slap in the face to legal immigrants that jumped through the hoops to get here. There are reforms needed to legal immigration, so let's fix that too.
Mexico cartels don't get all their guns for Argentina or the DEA, regardless of what Crain/Crane says. And the quantity of guns that are finding their way into Juarez, Mexico and other border towns is more than can realistically stolen.
velogeezer

Indianapolis, IN

#51 Feb 1, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
If that was the case, you would not be here.
Just imagine what would've happened at the turn of the century had we said this?
That was then. This is now.
velogeezer

Indianapolis, IN

#52 Feb 1, 2013
REDNECK HIPPIE wrote:
<quoted text>
That's cause you aint met me yet.
I refuse to be pigeonholed. I refuse to fit into ANYONES preconceived notion of what I should be and how I should think.
I am not a dictionary definition, I am a man with complex ideals, some would say that some of my views are liberal and some are conservative. I was born in Texas from farm folk. I was raised in a small northern Arizona town. I am a product of the 50's and a child of the 60's. I am agnostic, I am a veteran of the United States navy, I am a firm believer in the founding documents of this nation. I am a gun rights advocate, I believe that all men and women should be treated as equals under the law. I believe in less government, I believe in a woman's right to choose, I believe in the death penalty, I believe illegal immigrants need to be deported. I believe that jail time should be punitive, not a vacation. I believe in conservation, I believe in myself and I believe that I am done with you.
Well said, bro.

“I looked, and behold,”

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#53 Feb 1, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
If that was the case, you would not be here.
Just imagine what would've happened at the turn of the century had we said this?
Before 1900, when ALL of my ancestors immigrated here, there was no welfare state. They didn't come here and have Americans pay to provide them with food stamps for their kids (Obama administration is working with the Mexican consulate to encourage illegal immigrants to sign up for food stamps for their anchor babies). They didn't come here and have babies in our hospitals for free, with the result being the rest of us will pick up the tab. You didnít sneak into the country and get free Medicaid for your children on American tax payers dime. You didnít get free school lunches and free school breakfasts. It didnít cost as much to educate children, then, as it does now. Many kids went to a one room shack and had one teacher, who taught everybody.

I personally wouldnít care very much at all about amnesty, except for the massive transfer of wealth involved. Fí to provide Obamacare alone to one of these families will probably be a subsidy of at least in excess of 7-8k annually. Why the hell should I ask an American have to buy healthcare for foreigners Ö I donít care where they are from.

Meanwhile the post office is going bankrupt, Medicare is set to be completely exhausted (as in zero dollars left to pay for senior healthcare) by 2024, SS is paying out more than it is taking in (and this problem is going to accelerate as more and more boomers retire), and we are taking on about a trillion in more debt annually, on top of the 16 trillion in debt we already have.

Fí them Ö they can go back to their home country and ask their own people to provide for them. We have our own people to take care of. Our own people need jobs. Our own poor people need entitlement programs. I donít give a fí if I save 3 cents on an apple. Iíd rather pay 3 cents more and give an American a job Ö also, I may save 3 cents on an apple, but Iíll end up paying way more than that to provide them and their large broods with all kinds of benefits under entitlement programs.

“I looked, and behold,”

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#54 Feb 1, 2013
REDNECK HIPPIE wrote:
<quoted text> I am agnostic, I am a veteran of the United States navy, I am a firm believer in the founding documents of this nation. I am a gun rights advocate, I believe that all men and women should be treated as equals under the law. I believe in less government, I believe in a woman's right to choose, I believe in the death penalty, I believe illegal immigrants need to be deported. I believe that jail time should be punitive, not a vacation. I believe in conservation, I believe in myself and I believe that I am done with you.
While I'm not a veteran, I share all your views. I like to call it common sense. Somewhere along the way, we've lost that as a nation.

Level 8

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#55 Feb 1, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
Mexico cartels don't get all their guns for Argentina or the DEA, regardless of what Crain/Crane says. And the quantity of guns that are finding their way into Juarez, Mexico and other border towns is more than can realistically stolen.
You can't get the rocket launchers, grenades, RPG's, machine guns and full auto rifles pictured in the raids from American gun stores, I know, I have looked! You CAN get the heavy hardware by the planeload from Russian arms dealers, at a cheaper cost, than smuggled American semi-auto look-alikes. You can also get them from the corrupt Mexican military, Guatemala, Argentina, Venezuela etc. etc. Nonsense, to your supposition.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#56 Feb 1, 2013
Naughtyrobot wrote:
<quoted text>You can't get the rocket launchers, grenades, RPG's, machine guns and full auto rifles pictured in the raids from American gun stores, I know, I have looked! You CAN get the heavy hardware by the planeload from Russian arms dealers, at a cheaper cost, than smuggled American semi-auto look-alikes. You can also get them from the corrupt Mexican military, Guatemala, Argentina, Venezuela etc. etc. Nonsense, to your supposition.
I can buy into your statement I guess. But may I remind you - the most dangerous city in the world, Juarez, Mexico - most if not all of the killing are done via street firearms - meaning handguns and shotguns. Because the population literally sits on top of each other, grenades and rocket launchers are never used. And average of 8 people a day dies in Juarez, Mexico of gun fire.

“ASPIRE 2 INSPIRE B4 U EXPIRE”

Level 8

Since: Jul 08

USA

#57 Feb 1, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
While I'm not a veteran, I share all your views. I like to call it common sense. Somewhere along the way, we've lost that as a nation.
The politicians want it that way, as long as they can keep us divided and focused on minor issues, they can continue to loot the country and run rough shod over the liberties of the average American. Notice how they exempt themselves from all of the laws they pass, from obamacare, to gun control, to taxes etc.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#58 Feb 1, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Before 1900, when ALL of my ancestors immigrated here, there was no welfare state. They didn't come here and have Americans pay to provide them with food stamps for their kids (Obama administration is working with the Mexican consulate to encourage illegal immigrants to sign up for food stamps for their anchor babies). They didn't come here and have babies in our hospitals for free, with the result being the rest of us will pick up the tab. You didnít sneak into the country and get free Medicaid for your children on American tax payers dime. You didnít get free school lunches and free school breakfasts. It didnít cost as much to educate children, then, as it does now. Many kids went to a one room shack and had one teacher, who taught everybody.
I personally wouldnít care very much at all about amnesty, except for the massive transfer of wealth involved. Fí to provide Obamacare alone to one of these families will probably be a subsidy of at least in excess of 7-8k annually. Why the hell should I ask an American have to buy healthcare for foreigners Ö I donít care where they are from.
Meanwhile the post office is going bankrupt, Medicare is set to be completely exhausted (as in zero dollars left to pay for senior healthcare) by 2024, SS is paying out more than it is taking in (and this problem is going to accelerate as more and more boomers retire), and we are taking on about a trillion in more debt annually, on top of the 16 trillion in debt we already have.
Fí them Ö they can go back to their home country and ask their own people to provide for them. We have our own people to take care of. Our own people need jobs. Our own poor people need entitlement programs. I donít give a fí if I save 3 cents on an apple. Iíd rather pay 3 cents more and give an American a job Ö also, I may save 3 cents on an apple, but Iíll end up paying way more than that to provide them and their large broods with all kinds of benefits under entitlement programs.
First issue. The pay scale and cost of living around the turn of the last century was the reason things weren't as expensive as they are nowadays. Apples to oranges, IMO. We still have single room school houses upstate here - some things never change. People immigrated here for the same reasons immigrants of today do - escaping religious, racial, and political persecution, or seeking relief from a lack of economic opportunity. Many were pulled here by contract labor agreements offered by recruiting agents, known as padrones to Italian and Greek laborers - similar, if not identical to present day farm contracts.

Second issue - the United States added 150,000 new jobs in January that didn't exist in December of 2012. There are plenty of good paying jobs out there - that arguement can't fly anymore. The company I work for has had 23 jobs go unfilled for almost a year. These are great paying jobs - and we will give you the education!!! There are so many jobs available out there that you (not you, but us) have nobody to blame but yourself (not you or me)if you can't find a job.

Lastly, and this is the biggie - the cost of all consumables will probably - make that more than likely - go through the roof if immigrant labor is curtailed. Just because you and I don't see it on a daily basis doesn't mean it's not out there. The SE portion of the US is teeming with immigrant labor. It's like gun control - simply alleviating the source will not make the problem go away.

“I looked, and behold,”

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#59 Feb 1, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
First issue. The pay scale and cost of living around the turn of the last century was the reason things weren't as expensive as they are nowadays. Apples to oranges, IMO. We still have single room school houses upstate here - some things never change. People immigrated here for the same reasons immigrants of today do - escaping religious, racial, and political persecution, or seeking relief from a lack of economic opportunity. Many were pulled here by contract labor agreements offered by recruiting agents, known as padrones to Italian and Greek laborers - similar, if not identical to present day farm contracts.
Thatís precisely my point, it is apples to oranges. When highly impoverished folks came here around the turn of the century, they didnít impose massive burdens on society, like those who do today. You canít compare the two. Given that such large costs are involved, nowadays, itís foolish to only factor in how illegal immigration helps the repressed. The people I put first are Americans, myself, our own folks who want and need jobs, and our own poor. Again, this is common sense Ö you donít put foreign nationals above Americans.

There are also many people around the world who live under tyranny and would love to come to America; why should folks who violate our laws get to go in front of them? Again, this is common sense.

“I looked, and behold,”

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#60 Feb 1, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
Second issue - the United States added 150,000 new jobs in January that didn't exist in December of 2012. There are plenty of good paying jobs out there - that arguement can't fly anymore. The company I work for has had 23 jobs go unfilled for almost a year. These are great paying jobs - and we will give you the education!!! There are so many jobs available out there that you (not you, but us) have nobody to blame but yourself (not you or me)if you can't find a job.
That you would say this shows just how much you donít understand, and what is more concerning for me as an American is the fact that like you, so many people are uniformed, and they go off to the polls and vote based on misinformation and ignorance (and I donít mean that disrespectfully, by ignorance I mean the dictionary definition of lack of knowledge).

Any economist will tell you that you need to create at least 150,000 jobs each month just to account for population growth ... just to account for new grads. If all you do is create 150,000 jobs a month, this does absolutely nothing to lower the unemployment rate, which still has not recovered from the recession. An economist would tell you that in a healthy economy weíd be creating 250,000 jobs, which would account for population growth and provide 100,000 more jobs to the unemployed. 150,000 is nothing to crow about.

Donít believe me, go do some research.

“I looked, and behold,”

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#61 Feb 1, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>Lastly, and this is the biggie - the cost of all consumables will probably - make that more than likely - go through the roof if immigrant labor is curtailed. Just because you and I don't see it on a daily basis doesn't mean it's not out there. The SE portion of the US is teeming with immigrant labor. It's like gun control - simply alleviating the source will not make the problem go away.
You are simply demonstrating once again how much you donít understand and once again demonstrating why as an American I find it so concerning that like you, so many people are uniformed, and they go off to the polls and vote based on misinformation or ignorance.

http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/200326...

Even without that article, letís think about this logically Ö lets say I go to stay at a hotel for $100 a night, an instead of paying an illegal immigrant 8 bucks an hour to clean my room, they pay an American 16 an hour Ö thatís not a bad wage for that type of work, if you ask me, but let me ask how much time does this housekeeper spend on my room. Iíve been to lots of hotels Ö seems they may spend about a half hour on my room Ö that works out to a cost of $4 more dollars for my room. Even assuming the owner of the hotel passes all of that $4 off to me, and itís likely not all of that will be passed off onto me, that makes my room cost $104 a night. Is that skyrocketing? It doesnít seem like that is skyrocketing to me.

The costs increases are even lower for someone who works in a slaughter house or in the farm fields. How much time can a person probably spend cutting a steak off an animal carcass or picking a vegetable that I buy. We are talking minutes or seconds. When you prorate a few minutes or seconds of someoneís time, it really doesnít cost that much more from a consumer standpoint regardless of whether they are making $8 an hour or $16 an hour.

Also keep in mind that while I may pay $4 more for a room, all the money that American makes is spent here and generates more jobs here (and more taxes), this American who otherwise would not have such a good job is now less likely to go on welfare and can now make a living wage to care for her family, we no longer have to pay for the illegal immigrant making $8 an hour to have babies in our hospitals Ö no longer have to pay to educate a large brood of anchor babies, no longer have to provide them with food stamps, free school lunches and breakfasts, and free Medicaid.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#62 Feb 1, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
That you would say this shows just how much you donít understand, and what is more concerning for me as an American is the fact that like you, so many people are uniformed, and they go off to the polls and vote based on misinformation and ignorance (and I donít mean that disrespectfully, by ignorance I mean the dictionary definition of lack of knowledge).
Any economist will tell you that you need to create at least 150,000 jobs each month just to account for population growth ... just to account for new grads. If all you do is create 150,000 jobs a month, this does absolutely nothing to lower the unemployment rate, which still has not recovered from the recession. An economist would tell you that in a healthy economy weíd be creating 250,000 jobs, which would account for population growth and provide 100,000 more jobs to the unemployed. 150,000 is nothing to crow about.
Donít believe me, go do some research.
Ahhh...and how many jobs were unfilled?

The US has 3.2 million unfilled job openings and rising. The problem is, whether you're a new grad or someone just looking for something - people are waaaaaay too selective nowadays. Long-term unemployment killing skills, a lousy housing market hurting labor mobilityóand though itís extremely unpopular to say, extended unemployment benefits are likely having an impact on at least some folksí choices in what jobs theyíll agree to take and when.

I don't know how many times I changed my career path just to ensure there was a roof over my head and food on the table. I've been lucky I guess - I always seemed to thrive when the country was not.

Lastly, look at it this way - if we do eliminate or regulate immigrant farm labor, that's another 1.2 million more jobs to add to that 3.2 million.

Want to take a guess why US companies ships jobs overseas?

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