Sandy Hook Truthers

“A *wink* and a smile!!”

Level 8

Since: Apr 10

USA

#974 Feb 8, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree. I think, unfortunately, this is going to be one area where real meaningful solutions are difficult at best, however.
You've got the inner city crime aspect. We've been trying to solve that for decades. It seems to me, in order to prevent these things from happening, much needs to come about from the very communities who are struggling with this. This problem is largely confined to certain racial groups, and inner city blacks in particular. That's not being racist ... that's just stating a fact.
You have big cultural problems that perpetuate the pattern of violence however ... absent fathers ... low education achievement ... high incarceration rates ... gangs. While I think certain drugs should be decriminalized, which in theory may cut down on incarceration rates (although I suspect many of these will just look for the fast buck via other methods), I don't think you can legislate these things out of existence. These changes need to come about from the communities at issue, themselves. I don't know how you make that happen.
I do know that instead of identify the actual root causes of these problems and targeting them, we tend to get knee jerk reactions ... like banning guns in inner cities? The problem is, criminals, who by definition don't follow laws, will certainly still have them, even with a ban ... also shouldn't law abiding citizens who live in these areas be able to protect themselves?
Then you've got the mental illness aspect. I'm normally not one to put my stock in what any Hollywood actors says, but I think Bruce Willis summed it up very well:
"It's a difficult thing and I really feel bad for those families. I'm a father and it's just a tragedy. But I don't know how you legislate insanity. I don't know what you do about it. I don't even know how you begin to stop that."
How DO you legislate insanity? I don't know ... I haven't the slightest clue what to do about it. I haven't heard any good ideas, either. I think most of us are okay with universal background checks, but that really isn't going to solve our problems, unfortunately. It's more knee jerk, unfortunately.
And I agree with much of what you say. In Ohio on our local news everynight there are killings, usually gang/drug related and yes mostly in our black communities.

We all know bans nor background checks will solve all these problems and I have said about one hundred times now I could go and buy a gun off the street right now, no problem..

I don't have the answer either nor do I want to disarm America.

But again as I have said. With 300 plus million guns in the private sector that we know of are we safer? I don't think so.
Crime, murder, drugs and gangs are still here which I think is more of a problem that mental health.

I agree it should start at the community level but many will also fight that..
Employment Office

United States

#975 Feb 8, 2013
Ferrerman wrote:
<quoted text>I think all of Sam's registered names have been banned and his *friends* won't let him borrow some of their 'extras' anymore. Even they are realizing he's a horrible, loose cannon.
We've been trying to get in touch with you since 2003. We finally found you a position commensurate with your skill level. It may not seem like much at first, but every stall you tidy earns you five minutes towards your lunch period. Please, call us, before we're forced to give the position to a more qualified candidate.

“A *wink* and a smile!!”

Level 8

Since: Apr 10

USA

#976 Feb 8, 2013
Clean Ex wrote:
It appears someone needs a tissue.
Do you prefer Puffs Plus????
Trail of Tears

United States

#977 Feb 8, 2013
Ohio Cowgirl wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you prefer Puffs Plus????
You'll have to ask Snarky and Fairyfcuk. They're the ones who need 'em.

“A *wink* and a smile!!”

Level 8

Since: Apr 10

USA

#978 Feb 8, 2013
Employment Office wrote:
<quoted text>We've been trying to get in touch with you since 2003. We finally found you a position commensurate with your skill level. It may not seem like much at first, but every stall you tidy earns you five minutes towards your lunch period. Please, call us, before we're forced to give the position to a more qualified candidate.
I think you are more suited for that job since all you do is spew crap..

Tick Tock, hurry you're losing mins on your lunch period..;)

“A *wink* and a smile!!”

Level 8

Since: Apr 10

USA

#979 Feb 8, 2013
Trail of Tears wrote:
<quoted text>You'll have to ask Snarky and Fairyfcuk. They're the ones who need 'em.
Looks to me like you are the one doing the most crying today.

Be a man, dry those tears, blow your nose and go away..;)

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#980 Feb 8, 2013
Ohio Cowgirl wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree it should start at the community level but many will also fight that..
I think part of the problem is that there is only so much that can be done from the outside to help at the community level. It really comes down to values, and values cannot be imposed from the outside.

I think one of the major flaws with our welfare state, is that, while some folks on these programs are putting their best foot forward, many are not. You have a lot of poor role modeling not just at home, but in the community.

I honestly think many children would be better off if removed and raised in orphanages, with parents and relatives having visitation rights. Parents, who are so inclined, can work on themselves and when the time comes get their children back, and children whose parents are not so inclined, can at least be raised in a positive environment with structure and given a chance in life:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB2000142405274...

“During the past decade I have surveyed more than 2,500 alumni from 15 American orphanages. In two journal articles, I reported the same general conclusion: The orphanage alumni have outpaced their counterparts in the general population often by wide margins in almost all social and economic measures, including educational attainment, income and positive attitude toward life. White orphanage alumni had a 39% higher rate of college graduation than white Americans of the same age in the general population, and less than 3% had hostile memories of their orphanage experiences. University of Alabama historian David Beito replicated the study with several hundred alumni from another orphanage, reaching much the same conclusions.”

A 39% higher rate of college graduation is quite impressive. All the more so given that these children by definition come from disadvantaged backgrounds.

The problem is that orphanages are expensive. However, when you factor in the significantly greater likelihood of breaking the cycle of poverty, it seems like a good investment to me … and these are kids … I think even so called cold hearted conservatives can get behind doing what is best for them and giving them a chance in life to succeed. I think most of them object to giving handouts to parents who have no business being parents in the first place.

“If it ain't broke don't fix it”

Level 9

Since: Jul 09

Arcadia, LA.

#981 Feb 8, 2013
Great White Snark wrote:
he still has Bleckie
Got a link?

“A *wink* and a smile!!”

Level 8

Since: Apr 10

USA

#982 Feb 8, 2013
Sublime1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I think part of the problem is that there is only so much that can be done from the outside to help at the community level. It really comes down to values, and values cannot be imposed from the outside.
I think one of the major flaws with our welfare state, is that, while some folks on these programs are putting their best foot forward, many are not. You have a lot of poor role modeling not just at home, but in the community.
I honestly think many children would be better off if removed and raised in orphanages, with parents and relatives having visitation rights. Parents, who are so inclined, can work on themselves and when the time comes get their children back, and children whose parents are not so inclined, can at least be raised in a positive environment with structure and given a chance in life:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB2000142405274...
“During the past decade I have surveyed more than 2,500 alumni from 15 American orphanages. In two journal articles, I reported the same general conclusion: The orphanage alumni have outpaced their counterparts in the general population often by wide margins in almost all social and economic measures, including educational attainment, income and positive attitude toward life. White orphanage alumni had a 39% higher rate of college graduation than white Americans of the same age in the general population, and less than 3% had hostile memories of their orphanage experiences. University of Alabama historian David Beito replicated the study with several hundred alumni from another orphanage, reaching much the same conclusions.”
A 39% higher rate of college graduation is quite impressive. All the more so given that these children by definition come from disadvantaged backgrounds.
The problem is that orphanages are expensive. However, when you factor in the significantly greater likelihood of breaking the cycle of poverty, it seems like a good investment to me … and these are kids … I think even so called cold hearted conservatives can get behind doing what is best for them and giving them a chance in life to succeed. I think most of them object to giving handouts to parents who have no business being parents in the first place.
I'm all for welfare reform, drug testing etc.

As far as taking children away from parents I don't know and I say this because my friend works for our local Children Services. The things that happen to some of these children in foster care is heartbreaking to say the least. Alot of those ppl who foster are not checked out properly and they themselves are just looking for a check and could care less about the children they are paid to take care of.

I'll give you an example, I live on a farm. Some yrs. I sell some of my hay that my horses will not need. A woman came here to buy and she had 6 mixed children with her. She sat in here truck and these kids did all the work loading alot of hay on a day that was in the upper 90's.. I have n problem with kids learning responsibility and working but...

I was talking to a neighbor about this woman because it bothered me and come to find out that woman fosters 26...yes I said 26 children. Lives in a dump, raises horses and the children do all the work..from sun up to sundown. They're dirty, clothes torn, and I'm sure don't eat or sleep properly. The Courts have been made aware but they have no room for them so they come out talk to her and then it all starts all over again..

I could tell you many stories that are not at all good. My friend is in court daily fighting for these children and their rights...

“A *wink* and a smile!!”

Level 8

Since: Apr 10

USA

#983 Feb 8, 2013
^^^ I don't have a problem with children learning responsibility by working ^^^ sorry for the typos..

“A *wink* and a smile!!”

Level 8

Since: Apr 10

USA

#984 Feb 8, 2013
Sublime,

I think it all needs reformed on a case by case. How many ppl do all of us know taking advantage of all the systems including Workers Comp..

Cheating Insurance Companies etc..

It all falls to the taxpayers to pick up the tab when ppl abuse the system..

I have no problem with that....

“Voters elect Big Bird”

Level 7

Since: Jan 07

Dump American Eagle

#985 Feb 8, 2013
Ohio Cowgirl wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for the apology.
You obviously have a problem with Libs, so be it thats your choice but this is Americas problem..all of us..
Not all libs. I have a few on here that I consider good friends with. We disagree on some minor points and agree on others. It is these paid propagandists and mouth foaming radical leftists that set people off.

“Voters elect Big Bird”

Level 7

Since: Jan 07

Dump American Eagle

#986 Feb 8, 2013
Ferrerman wrote:
<quoted text>These people are only getting worse! I *got* the part where they *had* to be so awful because they were trying to *win* an election but, that is over and they lost. To continue with this awful tact means that they truly hate America and Americans. They are no better, no different, than Al Queda.
And I'm sure you spent the Bush second term singing his praises,right sh1theel?

“A *wink* and a smile!!”

Level 8

Since: Apr 10

USA

#987 Feb 8, 2013
And one more thing.

You're right Orphanages are expensive and many children end up there because they are a unwanted pregancy, rape or an incest child and for many reasons after a certain age are unadoptable so they stay in the system until they are 18. Then the taxpayers pay for them.

The Pro Life/ Conservative ppl want to stop abortion, don't want to fund Plan Parenthood or pay for contraceptives through insurance but....they are against welfare and many other programs that pay for these children including Orphanages..

It doesn't make any sense to me...

Some of these children live hellish lives..because they are not wanted and thrown away in the system nobody wants to pay for.

Which is the worse of the two evils??

“A *wink* and a smile!!”

Level 8

Since: Apr 10

USA

#989 Feb 8, 2013
okimar wrote:
<quoted text>Not all libs. I have a few on here that I consider good friends with. We disagree on some minor points and agree on others. It is these paid propagandists and mouth foaming radical leftists that set people off.
But honey go back and read some of your own post where I'm sorry but you come off as a radical extremist righty..

Just saying..

You can't call a spade a spade if you are one..

“Voters elect Big Bird”

Level 7

Since: Jan 07

Dump American Eagle

#990 Feb 8, 2013
Ohio Cowgirl wrote:
<quoted text>
And I agree with much of what you say. In Ohio on our local news everynight there are killings, usually gang/drug related and yes mostly in our black communities.
We all know bans nor background checks will solve all these problems and I have said about one hundred times now I could go and buy a gun off the street right now, no problem..
I don't have the answer either nor do I want to disarm America.
But again as I have said. With 300 plus million guns in the private sector that we know of are we safer? I don't think so.
Crime, murder, drugs and gangs are still here which I think is more of a problem that mental health.
I agree it should start at the community level but many will also fight that..
The amount of guns we have in this country is a factor to consider. Another thing to think about are the collectors. It isn't unusual for a serious collector to have hundreds in their vaults. One fellow I've chatted with on a gun thread about P-08 German Lugers has around 1500 of them alone. Almost every variation that had been made,from every country that used them.(I'm a bit jealous,I've only got one of those mechanical marvels) Other people collect Mauser rifles,Browning firearms of all makes. So it isn't hard to pare down the actual number of AVAILABLE guns that are floating around. The 3 million number is at best a guestamate anyway.

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#991 Feb 8, 2013
Ohio Cowgirl wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm all for welfare reform, drug testing etc.
As far as taking children away from parents I don't know and I say this because my friend works for our local Children Services. The things that happen to some of these children in foster care is heartbreaking to say the least. Alot of those ppl who foster are not checked out properly and they themselves are just looking for a check and could care less about the children they are paid to take care of.
I'll give you an example, I live on a farm. Some yrs. I sell some of my hay that my horses will not need. A woman came here to buy and she had 6 mixed children with her. She sat in here truck and these kids did all the work loading alot of hay on a day that was in the upper 90's.. I have n problem with kids learning responsibility and working but...
I was talking to a neighbor about this woman because it bothered me and come to find out that woman fosters 26...yes I said 26 children. Lives in a dump, raises horses and the children do all the work..from sun up to sundown. They're dirty, clothes torn, and I'm sure don't eat or sleep properly. The Courts have been made aware but they have no room for them so they come out talk to her and then it all starts all over again..
I could tell you many stories that are not at all good. My friend is in court daily fighting for these children and their rights...
I did all the hay stacking for my mom. I fed and watered her horses too. So, I dunno.

However, you are correct in that foster care has that problem … people just looking for a government check. Another problem is kids getting shuffled around. My wife’s good friend adopted two boys from a mom, who should not have been a mom. They are mixed race too. They are good kids, for the most part and she does a good job. For everyone like that, you probably have another who is not so good.

I’m not advocating foster care, however. I’m advocating state run or overseen orphanages. I went to a biker toy drive for one around Christmas. The kids did a little show and sang for us too. Some adults who were raised there also spoke and they had good things to say about it, much like that article I posted suggested. I bet you those kids will turn out far better than many of the kids in foster care or who grow up in the ghetto.

I think more studies should be done, of course, but if it turns out that kids actually do better in these environments, I would like to think it is something that the left and right could agree upon. Of course no one wants to remove kids from a parent home, but what if the parents can't care for them or themselves and it will give parents a chance to work on themselves and the kids generally turn out better? If so, it seems to me like it would be a much better policy in a most instances. We really should be willing to think outside of the box for ways to break the cycle of poverty. It is a cycle and a vicious one at that.

“Voters elect Big Bird”

Level 7

Since: Jan 07

Dump American Eagle

#992 Feb 8, 2013
Ohio Cowgirl wrote:
<quoted text> But honey go back and read some of your own post where I'm sorry but you come off as a radical extremist righty..
Just saying..
You can't call a spade a spade if you are one..
I'm a conservative Independent. Hard to believe I was raised a Truman democrat and voted for Carter(my first Presidential election). I was in the Marines at the time. Soon we had no money for training,fuel,replacement parts. Even the basics for garrison life in the barracks. We used to pass the hat to collect for cleaning supplies and toilet paper. Issue items we were supposed to be recieving for barracks maintenence and we were stuck buying our own. Meal quality fell. Lots of us resorted to buying groceries off base and keeping food in the barracks. Ever eat chicken 12 times a week? A steak in the messhall became as rare as rocking horse dung. Those days for our military are just around the corner. I've seen the entitlement programs expanded to the point that if you walk in sit down and fill out forms you're in. Very little verification needed these days. I heard a news blurb on the radio not long ago. A woman reported her purse stolen out her car. The description she gave cops was the purse was a designer purse worth $300.00,her wallet which had $800.00 in it was worth another couple hundred. Oh,and it had her EBT CARD in it. Small wonder I get upset with free handed libs. Its OUR money getting wasted-redistributed. We DO need these programs but where is the line to draw to cut the waste and fraud? Don't it tick you off eating baloney and someone on food stamps has shrimp and steak?

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#993 Feb 8, 2013
okimar wrote:
<quoted text>The amount of guns we have in this country is a factor to consider. Another thing to think about are the collectors. It isn't unusual for a serious collector to have hundreds in their vaults. One fellow I've chatted with on a gun thread about P-08 German Lugers has around 1500 of them alone. Almost every variation that had been made,from every country that used them.(I'm a bit jealous,I've only got one of those mechanical marvels) Other people collect Mauser rifles,Browning firearms of all makes. So it isn't hard to pare down the actual number of AVAILABLE guns that are floating around. The 3 million number is at best a guestamate anyway.
Of course, that guy with 1500 lugers (!) might be like you being "a combat veteran of Vietnam". You know- lying. It's the internet, ya know?

Level 8

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#994 Feb 8, 2013
Ohio Cowgirl wrote:
Sublime,
I think it all needs reformed on a case by case. How many ppl do all of us know taking advantage of all the systems including Workers Comp..
Cheating Insurance Companies etc..
It all falls to the taxpayers to pick up the tab when ppl abuse the system..
I have no problem with that....
I will be honest and say most of the folks I have know who were on welfare in my life were either slackers who didn't want to work or couldn't hold down a job even if they wanted to, gamed the system, or who had just made terrible decisions in life.

Maybe the folks I've known are a complete anomaly, but I find that hard to believe.

I don't believe people should starve in the street, regardless of their shortcomings, but I'm much more in favor of programs that make people self sufficient as opposed to programs that just care for folks and preserve the status quo of dependency. My parents did not come from money and my mom got prego when she was 18 and my dad was as well ... because of their income level at the time the state of IL had a program that allowed my dad to go to college for free (I asked him about this not too long ago ... I didn't know this), I believe, provided he maintained a B average. He worked full time during the day to provide for his family and went to school at nights and got his degree in accounting and did very well for himself in the business world.

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