Shariah Law ^(~

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#200 Apr 5, 2013
Milena N wrote:
<quoted text>
But again,you can't put the blame for what he did on the Christian religion.
But you could put the blame on the Christians for the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, etc.

Christians are historically one of the most ruthless religious cults ever.

Take the KKK for example. They were explicitly Christian terrorist in ideology, basing their beliefs on a "religious foundation" in Christianity. The goals of the KKK included, from an early time on, an intent to "reestablish Protestant Christian values in America by any means possible," and believe that "Jesus was the first Klansman."

During the twentieth century, members of extremist groups such as the Army of God began executing attacks against abortion clinics and doctors across the United States. A number of terrorist attacks were attributed to individuals and groups with ties to the Christian Identity and Christian Patriot movements, including the Lambs of Christ.

Hutaree was a Christian militia group based in Adrian, Michigan. In 2010, after an FBI agent infiltrated the group, nine of its members were indicted by a federal grand jury in Detroit on charges of seditious conspiracy to use of improvised explosive devices, teaching the use of explosive materials, and possessing a firearm during a crime of violence. On March 28, 2012, the conspiracy charges were dismissed. Terrorism scholar Aref M. Al-Khattar has listed The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord, Defensive Action, The Freemen Community, and some "Christian militia" as groups that "can be placed under the category of far-right-wing terrorism" that "has a religious (Christian) component".

My point is - not all Christians are terrorists - but there are Christian terrorists, just as not all Muslims are terrorists.

Level 8

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#201 Apr 5, 2013
stop the madness wrote:
<quoted text>
Sharia in America?
So could Sharia courts come to America? The idea sounds far-fetched to some.
According to the Center for Security Policy in Washington, there have been some 50 court cases in at least 23 states that have seen conflicts between Sharia law and American state law.
And four states have adopted legislation, called "American Laws for American Courts," that would protect U.S. citizens from the use of any type of foreign law, like Sharia, in the courtroom.
In East London, Craig said the fight against Sharia is much more than a religious or legal issue.
"It's actually a human rights thing," he said. "And we're working in partnership with non-Christians as well on this trying to bolster and strengthen the position for Muslim women."
by-http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/ world/2012/November/Islamic-Sh aria-Law-Comes-to-Great-Britai n/
(It was the last paragraph.)
I agree with him, this is a human rights issue not a religous one as much as it would like to mask itself as one. WTH did we do to Iraq for then? WTheck is that mumbojumbo about the "alibaba spring"!?
Note: I'm not pissed off. I'm just offended but thinking. Plus, you are screwing with my head cause you make sense, logically but it's still not logical. LOL
The human rights issue is the issue you have with what people in Afghanistan do to people in Afghanistan...Not all Islamic countries interpret Sharia Law the same and if people move here from Yemen and an honor killing happens, that person is going to prison instead of getting a pat on the back like he would in his own...Even the bible says the women is to submit and obey her husband.(which I dont believe in for the record)

Level 8

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#202 Apr 5, 2013
Milena N wrote:
<quoted text>
What I'm saying has nothing to do with what they said about blacks.What they said was a guess.What I'm saying is a fact.
His analogy between the way fear was used against black people 60 years ago to deny rights and the way fear is being used to deny religous freedoms to Muslims in some states was spot on. I told him,"good analogy"...you responded with it wasnt a good analogy because I dont understand Islam...now youre saying you werent talking about blacks??? Neither was I...The analogy was how fear was used to deny rights to an individual.

Level 9

Since: Nov 10

Powellton WV

#203 Apr 5, 2013
DaveMC wrote:
<quoted text>Arctic...I know a few muslims. My wifes business partner is from Egypt..He doesnt believe in honor killings. This is fear mongoring at its finest because it has a majority of you believing this is a relevant possiblity in this country.
I only bring this up b/c we have had
numerous "honor killings" here in the states.

Level 9

Since: Nov 10

Powellton WV

#204 Apr 5, 2013
Lets not forget the charming practice
of castrating girls.
We have had numerous cases of this in
the states. Of course it's totally
illegal here but they have tried to use
the "excuse" that it's their culture.

Doesn't fly here.

“Curious? You should be!”

Level 8

Since: Nov 10

East of Eden

#205 Apr 5, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
But you could put the blame on the Christians for the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, etc.
Christians are historically one of the most ruthless religious cults ever.
Take the KKK for example. They were explicitly Christian terrorist in ideology, basing their beliefs on a "religious foundation" in Christianity. The goals of the KKK included, from an early time on, an intent to "reestablish Protestant Christian values in America by any means possible," and believe that "Jesus was the first Klansman."
During the twentieth century, members of extremist groups such as the Army of God began executing attacks against abortion clinics and doctors across the United States. A number of terrorist attacks were attributed to individuals and groups with ties to the Christian Identity and Christian Patriot movements, including the Lambs of Christ.
Hutaree was a Christian militia group based in Adrian, Michigan. In 2010, after an FBI agent infiltrated the group, nine of its members were indicted by a federal grand jury in Detroit on charges of seditious conspiracy to use of improvised explosive devices, teaching the use of explosive materials, and possessing a firearm during a crime of violence. On March 28, 2012, the conspiracy charges were dismissed. Terrorism scholar Aref M. Al-Khattar has listed The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord, Defensive Action, The Freemen Community, and some "Christian militia" as groups that "can be placed under the category of far-right-wing terrorism" that "has a religious (Christian) component".
My point is - not all Christians are terrorists - but there are Christian terrorists, just as not all Muslims are terrorists.
Are you a Muslim?They use the same arguments against Christianity.Yes,I agree,Christians were violent but that was many centuries ago.Since religion has been separated from state which isn't the case in Islamic countries.They still kill in the name of Allah.

“Curious? You should be!”

Level 8

Since: Nov 10

East of Eden

#206 Apr 5, 2013
DaveMC wrote:
<quoted text>His analogy between the way fear was used against black people 60 years ago to deny rights and the way fear is being used to deny religous freedoms to Muslims in some states was spot on. I told him,"good analogy"...you responded with it wasnt a good analogy because I dont understand Islam...now youre saying you werent talking about blacks??? Neither was I...The analogy was how fear was used to deny rights to an individual.
To be honest,lately attack on religious freedoms has been seen across the board,not only against muslims.Many times against christian practices as well.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#207 Apr 5, 2013
Milena N wrote:
<quoted text>Are you a Muslim?They use the same arguments against Christianity.Yes,I agree,Christians were violent but that was many centuries ago.Since religion has been separated from state which isn't the case in Islamic countries.They still kill in the name of Allah.
I am not Muslim.

And you didn't read my entire post - the bottom half were examples of violent Christian factions in modern day examples.

What is it that you are paranoid of - is it Muslims in general or just paranoid of the government?

“Curious? You should be!”

Level 8

Since: Nov 10

East of Eden

#208 Apr 5, 2013
DaveMC wrote:
<quoted text>Arctic...I know a few muslims. My wifes business partner is from Egypt..He doesnt believe in honor killings. This is fear mongoring at its finest because it has a majority of you believing this is a relevant possiblity in this country.
The problem with muslims is that you don't know when they gonna turn on you.The Quran teaches that killing infidels is a duty and promises a place in heaven.I don't mind muslims,I just never trust them.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#209 Apr 5, 2013
arctic wrote:
Lets not forget the charming practice
of castrating girls.
We have had numerous cases of this in
the states. Of course it's totally
illegal here but they have tried to use
the "excuse" that it's their culture.
Doesn't fly here.
According to the WHO, it is practiced in 28 countries in western, eastern, and north-eastern Africa, in parts of the Middle East, and within some immigrant communities in Europe, North America, Australasia. The WHO estimates that 100–140 million women and girls around the world have experienced the procedure, including 92 million in Africa. The practice is carried out by some communities who believe it reduces a woman's libido — an official with the top Muslim clerical body of the largest Muslim-majority nation of the world, the Indonesian Ulema Council, said the practice (of FGM) is a religious obligation that should be done to control women’s sexual desires.

Level 9

Since: Nov 10

Powellton WV

#210 Apr 5, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
According to the WHO, it is practiced in 28 countries in western, eastern, and north-eastern Africa, in parts of the Middle East, and within some immigrant communities in Europe, North America, Australasia. The WHO estimates that 100–140 million women and girls around the world have experienced the procedure, including 92 million in Africa. The practice is carried out by some communities who believe it reduces a woman's libido — an official with the top Muslim clerical body of the largest Muslim-majority nation of the world, the Indonesian Ulema Council, said the practice (of FGM) is a religious obligation that should be done to control women’s sexual desires.
That is exactly the thought process.
If they stop a women from being able to enjoy
sex it will ensure that she doesn't go outside
the marriage.
It's sick and pathetic and it p1sses me off to
see this form of torture here in my country.
And done to very young girls. Usually b/f
their 12 birthday.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#211 Apr 5, 2013
Milena N wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem with muslims is that you don't know when they gonna turn on you.The Quran teaches that killing infidels is a duty and promises a place in heaven.I don't mind muslims,I just never trust them.
You should've just came out and said this in the first place - it would've saved us all a lot of typing.

Not all muslims are not trust worthy - that statement borders on bigotry. And the Quran does not teach killing - at all.

The central theme of the Quran is monotheism. God is depicted as living, eternal, omniscient and omnipotent. God's omnipotence appears above all in his power to create. He is the creator of everything, of the heavens and the earth and what is between them. All human beings are equal in their utter dependence upon God, and their well-being depends upon their acknowledging that fact and living accordingly.

According to Sahih Bukhari, the Quran was recited among Levantines and Iraqis, and discussed by Christians and Jews before it was standardized. Its language was similar to the Syriac language. The Quran recounts stories of many of the people and events recounted in Jewish and Christian sacred books (Tanakh, Bible) and devotional literature (Apocrypha, Midrash), although it differs in many details. Adam, Enoch, Noah, Eber, Shelah, Abraham, Lot, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Job, Jethro, David, Solomon, Elijah, Elisha, Jonah, Aaron, Moses, Zechariah, John the Baptist, and Jesus are mentioned in the Quran as prophets of God (see Prophets of Islam). In fact, Moses is mentioned more in the Quran than any other individual. Jesus is mentioned more often in the Quran than Muhammad while Mary is mentioned in the Quran more than the New Testament.

Level 8

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#212 Apr 5, 2013
arctic wrote:
<quoted text>
I only bring this up b/c we have had
numerous "honor killings" here in the states.
Are those men walking free??? You cant impose culture on someone and until you shut off your borders to everyone foreign these are the things you put up with. To assume our citizens are going to allow Islamic Law to replace our Constitution giving way to rampant honor killings or that once Sharia law took place we would all be subject to converting or death is probably one of the most ridiculous things Ive ever heard in my life.

“Curious? You should be!”

Level 8

Since: Nov 10

East of Eden

#213 Apr 5, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
You should've just came out and said this in the first place - it would've saved us all a lot of typing.
Not all muslims are not trust worthy - that statement borders on bigotry. And the Quran does not teach killing - at all.
The central theme of the Quran is monotheism. God is depicted as living, eternal, omniscient and omnipotent. God's omnipotence appears above all in his power to create. He is the creator of everything, of the heavens and the earth and what is between them. All human beings are equal in their utter dependence upon God, and their well-being depends upon their acknowledging that fact and living accordingly.
According to Sahih Bukhari, the Quran was recited among Levantines and Iraqis, and discussed by Christians and Jews before it was standardized. Its language was similar to the Syriac language. The Quran recounts stories of many of the people and events recounted in Jewish and Christian sacred books (Tanakh, Bible) and devotional literature (Apocrypha, Midrash), although it differs in many details. Adam, Enoch, Noah, Eber, Shelah, Abraham, Lot, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Job, Jethro, David, Solomon, Elijah, Elisha, Jonah, Aaron, Moses, Zechariah, John the Baptist, and Jesus are mentioned in the Quran as prophets of God (see Prophets of Islam). In fact, Moses is mentioned more in the Quran than any other individual. Jesus is mentioned more often in the Quran than Muhammad while Mary is mentioned in the Quran more than the New Testament.
You say Quran doesn't teach to kill?You insist it's a peaceful religion.Well,let's ask the Quran itself.
Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."
Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."
Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."
Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."
Ishaq:324 "He said,'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"
Ishaq:587 "Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."
Qur'an:8:65 "O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding."
Should I continue?I can do this all day.

Level 9

Since: Nov 10

Powellton WV

#214 Apr 5, 2013
DaveMC wrote:
<quoted text>Are those men walking free??? You cant impose culture on someone and until you shut off your borders to everyone foreign these are the things you put up with. To assume our citizens are going to allow Islamic Law to replace our Constitution giving way to rampant honor killings or that once Sharia law took place we would all be subject to converting or death is probably one of the most ridiculous things Ive ever heard in my life.
I expect every immigrant to respect our laws.
Period.
Most of the men who committed these crimes are
locked away. A few (that I know about) fled the
country to avoid prosecution.

I personally am not worried about Sharia law.
It's nothing this country would tolerate.
Ever.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#216 Apr 5, 2013
Milena N wrote:
<quoted text>
You say Quran doesn't teach to kill?You insist it's a peaceful religion.Well,let's ask the Quran itself.
Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."
Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission."
Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."
Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief [non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the whole world)."
Ishaq:324 "He said,'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"
Ishaq:587 "Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam, humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."
Qur'an:8:65 "O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers, for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding."
Should I continue?I can do this all day.
I could quote a Dr. Suess book in the same way - you need to stop reading excerpts and read the entire passage. Just like the Bible, if you only read one sentence or line, you miss the entire meaning of the passage. Taking something out of context and only posting part of a passage to boost your arguement is the oldest debate trick in the book. I for one don't fall for it.

Here, I'll give you an example:

"And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context. The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition.

The Quran is an old book - similar to the Bible in many ways.

Here's some violent excerpts from the Bible:

"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel." (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death." (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

"A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death." (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

I too can do this all day - your call.

“Curious? You should be!”

Level 8

Since: Nov 10

East of Eden

#217 Apr 5, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
I could quote a Dr. Suess book in the same way - you need to stop reading excerpts and read the entire passage. Just like the Bible, if you only read one sentence or line, you miss the entire meaning of the passage. Taking something out of context and only posting part of a passage to boost your arguement is the oldest debate trick in the book. I for one don't fall for it.
Here, I'll give you an example:
"And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context. The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition.
The Quran is an old book - similar to the Bible in many ways.
Here's some violent excerpts from the Bible:
"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel." (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death." (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
"A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death." (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
I too can do this all day - your call.
Except that Islam was created with the sole purpose to unite all Arabs and conquer new lands.This is why it is an aggressive religion.Christianity was used as a tool of aggression as well but peace is in its root.

“Curious? You should be!”

Level 8

Since: Nov 10

East of Eden

#218 Apr 5, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
I could quote a Dr. Suess book in the same way - you need to stop reading excerpts and read the entire passage. Just like the Bible, if you only read one sentence or line, you miss the entire meaning of the passage. Taking something out of context and only posting part of a passage to boost your arguement is the oldest debate trick in the book. I for one don't fall for it.
Here, I'll give you an example:
"And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah" Some translations interpret "fitna" as "persecution", but the traditional understanding of this word is not supported by the historical context. The Meccans were simply refusing Muhammad access to their city during Haj. Other Muslims were allowed to travel there - just not as an armed group, since Muhammad had declared war on Mecca prior to his eviction. The Meccans were also acting in defense of their religion, since it was Muhammad's intention to destroy their idols and establish Islam by force (which he later did). Hence the critical part of this verse is to fight until "religion is only for Allah", meaning that the true justification of violence was the unbelief of the opposition.
The Quran is an old book - similar to the Bible in many ways.
Here's some violent excerpts from the Bible:
"Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel." (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
"If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death." (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
"A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death." (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)
I too can do this all day - your call.
And i have the following question,how many Christian countries actually practice those violent bible laws today?We all know there are plenty of Islamic countries who still practice the Quran's prescriptions down to the t.

“"*" Always Thinking "*"”

Level 8

Since: Nov 12

Greensburg, IN

#219 Apr 5, 2013
Does this seem to be almost a perfect match-off and too choreographed for Milena N and milwaukee69 to be 2 separate individuals?
Is it possible that the two are actually one?
I've seen this game played by others and this makes me specious.
Don't take me wrong, it's definitely a brilliant
disposition of expressing both sides and a learning or educational experience.
It's 'just' that it fits so-good it becomes debate training procedure.
Good work guys...guy!

“Curious? You should be!”

Level 8

Since: Nov 10

East of Eden

#220 Apr 5, 2013
Hoosier Hillbilly wrote:
Does this seem to be almost a perfect match-off and too choreographed for Milena N and milwaukee69 to be 2 separate individuals?
Is it possible that the two are actually one?
I've seen this game played by others and this makes me specious.
Don't take me wrong, it's definitely a brilliant
disposition of expressing both sides and a learning or educational experience.
It's 'just' that it fits so-good it becomes debate training procedure.
Good work guys...guy!
Can milwaukee69 speak Bulgarian too?Cause I can.

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