Do women belong on the front line?
Hoosier Hillbilly

Oxford, OH

#45 Dec 7, 2012
Sure your right milwaukee69, why would anyone want to dispute what the god of Topix ever says?
Some still have it to learn to not argue with you
just state facts and reasons and let them stand for themself.
Ain't that right Ol'geezer?
Your 8g power and AB's lit does not impress me in the least go get your mop & bucket and get back to work swabby.

“I call it as I see it.”

Level 8

Since: Jul 09

Retirement City

#46 Dec 7, 2012
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
You ought to try it sometime - the demands of a fighter pilot are the same - maybe even more.
Ever pull an 8g power peg with both AB's lit?
I think you underestimate flying.
But they are as different as the physical demands of a figure skater for the demands of an NFL defensive lineman. I have both played football and ice skated and I will say the physical demands are as different as night and day. The most demanding part of being a pilot is G forces while an infantryman may have to run while carrying heavy equipment. Yes. being a fighter pilot is physically demanding, but in an entirely different way from being in the infantry.

“A smile and humor .....”

Level 7

Since: Feb 11

Enhances you ...

#47 Dec 7, 2012
Interesting topic.

I vote no.
Even though now a days women's roles have changed, like AW said, we have more harden women out there who are just as tough as men. And once you let a selected few in, more women will want to join the ranks.
But my issue with this is the fact that women can be raped, by the enemy or friendly. And chances are they will be a distraction to our own men. Men will be more protective of a woman on the front line. I also don't know if women could emotionally handle the ugly side where children and women get killed on the front lines.
I'm sorry, I just don't like seeing women in jobs that have normally been deemed "a man's job". If my house was on fire, I would not be happy to see a firetruck pull up with women firefighters.

“New & Improved..”

Level 8

Since: Oct 07

Formerly From Kenya

#48 Dec 7, 2012
We could keep em barefoot & pregnant then use em as human shields...you know..like the Taliban...

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#49 Dec 7, 2012
I think both of you need to visit Miramar sometime soon. See how we train our fighter piolts, then come back and try to explain to me how being a fighter pilot are any less demanding than a foot soldier.

20 hours on the flightline, round the clock sorties and not to mention monitoring 15 in-flight systems at the same time - all the while targeting 22 different boagies. I would rate it more demanding, IMO.

HH, did they have jets in your day or were they all still bi-planes?

“I call it as I see it.”

Level 8

Since: Jul 09

Retirement City

#50 Dec 7, 2012
milwaukee69 wrote:
As for belonging on the frontline - there are women out there that can out perform any man. Those are the women that belong on the frontline - just like a few good men, only the elite should be on point.
They are the extreme exception and not the rule.

Level 1

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#51 Dec 7, 2012
They don't.

That's final.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#52 Dec 7, 2012
flbadcatowner wrote:
<quoted text>They are the extreme exception and not the rule.
So are the Marines, Navy, Army and Air Force.

I could care less what sex, color or religion my wing"man" was - as long as he/she has my six, it doesn't really matter as long as he/she and I make it back to chow everyday.

“I call it as I see it.”

Level 8

Since: Jul 09

Retirement City

#53 Dec 7, 2012
milwaukee69 wrote:
I think both of you need to visit Miramar sometime soon. See how we train our fighter piolts, then come back and try to explain to me how being a fighter pilot are any less demanding than a foot soldier.
20 hours on the flightline, round the clock sorties and not to mention monitoring 15 in-flight systems at the same time - all the while targeting 22 different boagies. I would rate it more demanding, IMO.
HH, did they have jets in your day or were they all still bi-planes?
How many woman could pass the physical tests required of a male soldier in years past? And the physical demands of a pilot are vastly different from that of a foot soldier much like the difference between a pitcher, fielder, and hitter in baseball as many great pitchers couldn't hit a balloon as a batter and some great hitters were absolutely atrocious fielders and vice versa.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#54 Dec 7, 2012
Fish_sticks wrote:
Interesting topic.
I vote no.
Even though now a days women's roles have changed, like AW said, we have more harden women out there who are just as tough as men. And once you let a selected few in, more women will want to join the ranks.
But my issue with this is the fact that women can be raped, by the enemy or friendly. And chances are they will be a distraction to our own men. Men will be more protective of a woman on the front line. I also don't know if women could emotionally handle the ugly side where children and women get killed on the front lines.
I'm sorry, I just don't like seeing women in jobs that have normally been deemed "a man's job". If my house was on fire, I would not be happy to see a firetruck pull up with women firefighters.
We also protected our Chaplin and our Medics in the same fashion - doesn't matter - when the sh*t hits the fan, man or woman would make an equally efficient killing machine.

The bottom line that many of you are missing is that we wouldn't put Pam Anderson on the frontline - on the contrary, we'd train them identically to that of the men.

Both would be trained killers.

As for not calling female firefighters - I'm happy as hell I don't live next to you Bex - especially at Thanksgiving...lol

“I call it as I see it.”

Level 8

Since: Jul 09

Retirement City

#55 Dec 7, 2012
Fish_sticks wrote:
Interesting topic.
I vote no.
Even though now a days women's roles have changed, like AW said, we have more harden women out there who are just as tough as men. And once you let a selected few in, more women will want to join the ranks.
But my issue with this is the fact that women can be raped, by the enemy or friendly. And chances are they will be a distraction to our own men. Men will be more protective of a woman on the front line. I also don't know if women could emotionally handle the ugly side where children and women get killed on the front lines.
I'm sorry, I just don't like seeing women in jobs that have normally been deemed "a man's job". If my house was on fire, I would not be happy to see a firetruck pull up with women firefighters.
You made some very good points. If I am found unconscious in a burning building, I would hope that I would be found by a 200 pound male and not a female firefighter who is 5'03" and 100 lbs. Putting women in the front lines is political correctness gone amok.

Level 7

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#56 Dec 7, 2012
How many courtmarshalls and law suits have we already had, concerning sexual incidents, between females and male officers and soldiers?....The taxpayers of this country, cannot afford to play. neverending, sexual russian roulette....

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#57 Dec 7, 2012
flbadcatowner wrote:
<quoted text>How many woman could pass the physical tests required of a male soldier in years past? And the physical demands of a pilot are vastly different from that of a foot soldier much like the difference between a pitcher, fielder, and hitter in baseball as many great pitchers couldn't hit a balloon as a batter and some great hitters were absolutely atrocious fielders and vice versa.
You need to do a little research before spouting off.

WAM training is no different than Marine training.

Your analogies are without merit and weak to say the least. All analogies aside, those that have seen actual combat will agree with me that physical abilities are not as important as the brain between your shoulders. It's not like the movies.

“I call it as I see it.”

Level 8

Since: Jul 09

Retirement City

#58 Dec 7, 2012
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
You need to do a little research before spouting off.
WAM training is no different than Marine training.
Your analogies are without merit and weak to say the least. All analogies aside, those that have seen actual combat will agree with me that physical abilities are not as important as the brain between your shoulders. It's not like the movies.
Now we are getting somewhere. I said at the outset that the mental part was the most important thing in flying. And the average male will still greatly outperform the average female in speed, strength, and endurance.

Level 6

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#59 Dec 7, 2012
okimar wrote:
<quoted text>Womn on ships and planes or in combat support roles are one thing,direct involved combat is another. Combat support runs a *risk* of contact which would be of short duration. Direct combat involves closing with and destroying the enemy. Missions of this sort are of longer duration and in advanced areas. You don't sacrifice unit effectiveness for the possibility "one or two could keep up". Precombat training would weed out the weak and sorry to say that would include any woman who wished to try. Facts can't be changes by hopes,good intentions,attempts at being "fair" or leveling the playing field. Trust me,combat is THE ultimate field leveler. All that would happen would be a lot of women would be wounded and killed as well as the men whom would endanger themselves in attempts to "save" the girls. The best way to avoid trouble is not to court it.
So how do you weed out the men that shouldn't be in that situation? Why can you not apply the same procedure to women?

I am not arguing that any woman should be able to be in the front line. Just the ones that can hold their own. I am not advocating watering down the system.

Point is, even in your prime, somewhere in this nation was a woman who could kick your hinder. There's no reason why *that* woman - and others like them - shouldn't be able to fight.

“Got'em figured out?”

Since: Nov 09

Think again

#60 Dec 7, 2012
Is it i__It is I wrote:
They don't.
That's final.
You'll find out [if'n you don't already know] that on Offbeat ... nothing is final.

“Got'em figured out?”

Since: Nov 09

Think again

#61 Dec 7, 2012
milwaukee69 wrote:
I think both of you need to visit Miramar sometime soon. See how we train our fighter piolts, then come back and try to explain to me how being a fighter pilot are any less demanding than a foot soldier.
20 hours on the flightline, round the clock sorties and not to mention monitoring 15 in-flight systems at the same time - all the while targeting 22 different boagies. I would rate it more demanding, IMO.
HH, did they have jets in your day or were they all still bi-planes?
emphasizing the hazards of take-off and especially landing on aircraft carriers.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#62 Dec 7, 2012
flbadcatowner wrote:
<quoted text>Now we are getting somewhere. I said at the outset that the mental part was the most important thing in flying. And the average male will still greatly outperform the average female in speed, strength, and endurance.
You're lost.

Read my post again - and if needed, I can translate to Portugese.

Go ahead, be like the Iraqis - enlist the average person.

We here in the United States do not enlist the average - we enlist and send into battle only the elite - regardless of sex.

Your posts remind me of someone who hasn't been laid in a long time. A mama's boy mentality if you will.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#63 Dec 7, 2012
Deer Whisperer wrote:
<quoted text>
emphasizing the hazards of take-off and especially landing on aircraft carriers.
Precisely.

“I call it as I see it.”

Level 8

Since: Jul 09

Retirement City

#64 Dec 7, 2012
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
You need to do a little research before spouting off.
WAM training is no different than Marine training.
Your analogies are without merit and weak to say the least. All analogies aside, those that have seen actual combat will agree with me that physical abilities are not as important as the brain between your shoulders. It's not like the movies.
Are you aware that the fitness standards for men in the Marines are tougher than for a woman? A time of 21 minutes flat in a three mile run scores 100 points for a woman while scoring 82 points for a man. On the contrary, my analogies do make much more sense than you are willing to admit.

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