American Student Punished for Refusin...

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#64 Mar 5, 2013
REDNECK HIPPIE wrote:
<quoted text>
So, if the course curriculum required her to perform an illegal act, she absolutely must follow the course curriculum, regardless of the consequences. Was the course curriculum provided to the student and her legal guardians before she signed up for the class, so that they could opt out if the student objected to that portion of the course curriculum. Was it stated in writing that she was required to relinquish her rights as an American citizen in order to pass the course.
How can you possibly come up with an alaogy more inane that that?

What was illegal about requiring a specific reading in Spanish?

All, and I mean all, college and college-prep courses are preceeded by a sylabus - in which, the student can look over and determine whether or not the class curriculum suits their specific education. It is normally handed out in the first class.

“ASPIRE 2 INSPIRE B4 U EXPIRE”

Level 8

Since: Jul 08

USA

#65 Mar 5, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
Careful - she wasn't "forced" to do anything other than recite it.
"The recitation of the Mexican pledge and the singing of the Mexican national anthem was part of a 2011 Spanish class assignment at Achieve Early College High School. The teacher, Reyna Santos, required all her students to participate in the lesson."
They did not ask her to salute a flag or pledge to any foriegn government.
Btw - if you're a hockey fan, guess who's national anthem they play first at a Oilers/Blackhawk's game?
"O Canada! Our home and native land! True patriot love in all thy sons command!..."
Did you check your reading comprehension at the door. Quoted from the article.

The Thomas More Law Center filed the suit on behalf of Brenda Brinsdon alleging the McAllen Independent School District violated the 15-year-old girl’s constitutional rights when she was forced to recite the Mexican pledge and sing the Mexican national anthem.

The teacher, Reyna Santos, required all her students to participate in the lesson.

When Brinsdon refused to back down – she was punished

And while she is fluent in Spanish and English and is proud of her Mexican heritage, Brinsdon is a “true-blooded American,” Mersino added.

Mersino said it was especially troubling to watch video of students in the class standing up, extending their arms straight out, palms down and reciting the pledge of a foreign country.

“It’s disturbing – it truly was troubling,” she said.

IF THAT IS NOT FORCED, THEN JUST WHAT IS YOUR DEFINITION OF FORECED.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#66 Mar 5, 2013
REDNECK HIPPIE wrote:
<quoted text>
So, if the course curriculum required her to perform an illegal act, she absolutely must follow the course curriculum, regardless of the consequences. Was the course curriculum provided to the student and her legal guardians before she signed up for the class, so that they could opt out if the student objected to that portion of the course curriculum. Was it stated in writing that she was required to relinquish her rights as an American citizen in order to pass the course.
Ever take a music-appreciation class as an elective, specifically jazz?

I've got news for you - if you take that class and insist on writing reviews on rock music - you will fail.

When you take a subject-specific course you are expected to follow course-specific material.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#67 Mar 5, 2013
REDNECK HIPPIE wrote:
<quoted text>
okay, but, since the comment was directed to m69, why post it in a reply to my post, why not reply to one of his posts.
Hey, buddy...let me give you a clue...

***milwaukee69 twirling finger around ear***

“ASPIRE 2 INSPIRE B4 U EXPIRE”

Level 8

Since: Jul 08

USA

#68 Mar 5, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
It's quoted from the law.
Ohio School Law Guide § 9.74. Anderson's Ohio School Law Guide. CHAPTER 9: PUPILS. G. PUPIL REGULATION AND DISCIPLINE
Two questions with that.
Does Ohio law apply in Texas
and
Does wikipedia not allow anyone to modify the text of the entries on wikipedia, if so, how can anyone be certain that the cited reference is indeed accurate.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#69 Mar 5, 2013
Billy R wrote:
<quoted text>Some things are just sacred to me......One last question-Gay marriage is legal in Mexico. What if they paired you up with a guy?
What difference does it make - if you read the sylabus and agree to its contents at the start of the class, why not? Although, if it's not an acting course, I fail to see the educational value in it - but who knows.

You'd have to get pretty extreme to keep me from acheiving my degree.

Ever take public speaking?

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#70 Mar 5, 2013
REDNECK HIPPIE wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you check your reading comprehension at the door. Quoted from the article.
The Thomas More Law Center filed the suit on behalf of Brenda Brinsdon alleging the McAllen Independent School District violated the 15-year-old girl’s constitutional rights when she was forced to recite the Mexican pledge and sing the Mexican national anthem.
The teacher, Reyna Santos, required all her students to participate in the lesson.
When Brinsdon refused to back down – she was punished
And while she is fluent in Spanish and English and is proud of her Mexican heritage, Brinsdon is a “true-blooded American,” Mersino added.
Mersino said it was especially troubling to watch video of students in the class standing up, extending their arms straight out, palms down and reciting the pledge of a foreign country.
“It’s disturbing – it truly was troubling,” she said.
IF THAT IS NOT FORCED, THEN JUST WHAT IS YOUR DEFINITION OF FORECED.
Come on man, you're smarter than that.

Where does it say that they were forced to do anything, aside by her lawyer?

She had a choice - either recite it or quit - she chose the latter.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#71 Mar 5, 2013
REDNECK HIPPIE wrote:
<quoted text>
Two questions with that.
Does Ohio law apply in Texas
and
Does wikipedia not allow anyone to modify the text of the entries on wikipedia, if so, how can anyone be certain that the cited reference is indeed accurate.
Did you read it or are you assuming that just becasue it says "Ohio" it means that it's only applicable to Ohio?

Anderson's Ohio School Law Manual is specifically geared towards School Board Members, Superintendents, Treasurers, Business Officials, Administrators, Teachers and Students. It comprises the first volume of the comprehensive Ohio School Law Guide, giving all necessary information to the consumers at a bargain price.

Author Kimball H. Carey covers:

school districts
administration
school finance and management
buildings and property
teachers, pupils, and pupil services
liability of school districts and officers
federal issues.

F-E-D-E-R-A-L I-S-S-U-E-S

“ASPIRE 2 INSPIRE B4 U EXPIRE”

Level 8

Since: Jul 08

USA

#72 Mar 5, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
How can you possibly come up with an alaogy more inane that that?
What was illegal about requiring a specific reading in Spanish?
All, and I mean all, college and college-prep courses are preceeded by a sylabus - in which, the student can look over and determine whether or not the class curriculum suits their specific education. It is normally handed out in the first class.
I did not state that the recitation of the pledge was illegal, I merely extrapolated from your answer that she could possibly be required to perform an illegal act as part of the course curriculum, or face negative consequences. And you would be okay with that, since it was part of the required course curriculum.

As to the syllabus, how can you say with certainty that "All, and I mean all, college and college-prep courses are preceeded by a sylabus - in which, the student can look over and determine whether or not the class curriculum suits their specific education." Have you attended EVERY college and college-prep course. If not, then you are merely speculating.
None of us really know all of the details, but it is my opinion that she was within her rights to refuse to recite a foreign countries pledge of allegiance without suffering negative consequences. The instructor must have thought so as well, or she would not have given the student an alternative assignment. Which was not required of the other students who did not stand up to the instructor.

“I was a Grim Reaper”

Level 8

Since: Apr 07

But now I take antidepressants

#73 Mar 5, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
What difference does it make - if you read the sylabus and agree to its contents at the start of the class, why not? Although, if it's not an acting course, I fail to see the educational value in it - but who knows.
You'd have to get pretty extreme to keep me from acheiving my degree.
Ever take public speaking?
But what if the syllabus didn't reveal that you would be "Marrying" a guy? I doubt that they were told in the beginning of the year that they would be pledging allegiance to a foreign country......I've done plenty of public speaking, and never once was I required to pledge allegiance to any country or person that wasn't of my choosing.

Since: Oct 08

King George, VA

#74 Mar 5, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
Careful - she wasn't "forced" to do anything other than recite it.
"The recitation of the Mexican pledge and the singing of the Mexican national anthem was part of a 2011 Spanish class assignment at Achieve Early College High School. The teacher, Reyna Santos, required all her students to participate in the lesson."
They did not ask her to salute a flag or pledge to any foriegn government.
Btw - if you're a hockey fan, guess who's national anthem they play first at a Oilers/Blackhawk's game?
"O Canada! Our home and native land! True patriot love in all thy sons command!..."
OK Milwaukee, I'll see your 'Careful' and raise you a 'Caution!'... I stated she was "asked" to recite the Pledge not 'Forced' as you stated above. However, if she was told, or if it was implied, that if she didn't recite the pladge that she would fail because of her patriotic beliefs, then it is a Form of enforcement.

Sorry, Not into the Hocky scene, so I wouldn't know and basically don't care.

Here is another statement she could spoken in Spanish:

"I believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people by the people, for the people, whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a Republic; a sovereign Nation of many sovereign States; a perfect Union, one and inseparable; established upon those principls of freedom, equality, justice, and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes.
I therefore believe it is my duty to my Country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey its laws; to respect its flag, and to defend it againest all enemies."

It is called the 'American's Creed'

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#77 Mar 5, 2013
REDNECK HIPPIE wrote:
<quoted text>
I did not state that the recitation of the pledge was illegal, I merely extrapolated from your answer that she could possibly be required to perform an illegal act as part of the course curriculum, or face negative consequences. And you would be okay with that, since it was part of the required course curriculum.
As to the syllabus, how can you say with certainty that "All, and I mean all, college and college-prep courses are preceeded by a sylabus - in which, the student can look over and determine whether or not the class curriculum suits their specific education." Have you attended EVERY college and college-prep course. If not, then you are merely speculating.
None of us really know all of the details, but it is my opinion that she was within her rights to refuse to recite a foreign countries pledge of allegiance without suffering negative consequences. The instructor must have thought so as well, or she would not have given the student an alternative assignment. Which was not required of the other students who did not stand up to the instructor.
Having just finished a master's program a few years ago (not for the squeemish mind you), I can definitely say that most if not all college courses are proceeded by a sylabus (even high school courses nowadays are proceeded by an "expectations" checklist). Most students insist on seeing one before coming back to the second class.

I agree - she had a choice to make. And, her instructor seemed to be catering only to her - although there could've been others in the class that followed her lead and legitimately did not do the assignment in advance - but again, that's an assumption.

“I was a Grim Reaper”

Level 8

Since: Apr 07

But now I take antidepressants

#78 Mar 5, 2013
Masterscout wrote:
<quoted text>
OK Milwaukee, I'll see your 'Careful' and raise you a 'Caution!'... I stated she was "asked" to recite the Pledge not 'Forced' as you stated above. However, if she was told, or if it was implied, that if she didn't recite the pladge that she would fail because of her patriotic beliefs, then it is a Form of enforcement.
Sorry, Not into the Hocky scene, so I wouldn't know and basically don't care.
Here is another statement she could spoken in Spanish:
"I believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people by the people, for the people, whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a Republic; a sovereign Nation of many sovereign States; a perfect Union, one and inseparable; established upon those principls of freedom, equality, justice, and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes.
I therefore believe it is my duty to my Country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey its laws; to respect its flag, and to defend it againest all enemies."
It is called the 'American's Creed'
Keep in mind that in the school district in question, it is illegal to force students to recite the American pledge of allegiance----The school district has a policy that prohibits a school from compelling students to recite the American Pledge of Allegiance or text from the Declaration of Independence if the student “as determined by the district, has a conscientious objection to the recitation,

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/feb/...
Follow us:@washtimes on Twitter

“ASPIRE 2 INSPIRE B4 U EXPIRE”

Level 8

Since: Jul 08

USA

#79 Mar 5, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
Ever take a music-appreciation class as an elective, specifically jazz?
I've got news for you - if you take that class and insist on writing reviews on rock music - you will fail.
When you take a subject-specific course you are expected to follow course-specific material.
Now who is being inane.
She followed the course curriculum, up to the point where she was being forced to do something morally abhorrent to her. She proposed an alternative, using Spanish and that was rejected. The instructor deviated from the curriculum, to allow her an acceptable alternative. Then harshly graded it as a way to show her authority.

“I was a Grim Reaper”

Level 8

Since: Apr 07

But now I take antidepressants

#80 Mar 5, 2013
its just a language class wrote:
<quoted text>Its just a language class, Roll playing? You do know the difference bewteen realtime and make believe right? Of course you do...twin.
Sheesh.
Roll playing? Apparently your familiarity with school is only cursory........

“ASPIRE 2 INSPIRE B4 U EXPIRE”

Level 8

Since: Jul 08

USA

#82 Mar 5, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
Come on man, you're smarter than that.
Where does it say that they were forced to do anything, aside by her lawyer?
She had a choice - either recite it or quit - she chose the latter.
Quitting may not have been an option. I can see many areas of concern with that course of action. No other comparable class available, course required to graduate, decline in GPA if course abandoned. So in my opinion, there was force applied.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#83 Mar 5, 2013
Masterscout wrote:
<quoted text>
OK Milwaukee, I'll see your 'Careful' and raise you a 'Caution!'... I stated she was "asked" to recite the Pledge not 'Forced' as you stated above. However, if she was told, or if it was implied, that if she didn't recite the pladge that she would fail because of her patriotic beliefs, then it is a Form of enforcement.
Sorry, Not into the Hocky scene, so I wouldn't know and basically don't care.
Here is another statement she could spoken in Spanish:
"I believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people by the people, for the people, whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a Republic; a sovereign Nation of many sovereign States; a perfect Union, one and inseparable; established upon those principls of freedom, equality, justice, and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes.
I therefore believe it is my duty to my Country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey its laws; to respect its flag, and to defend it againest all enemies."
It is called the 'American's Creed'
I'm still sticking to the specific course curriculum.

Had the sylabus stated, "You may pick any country's pledge or historical footnote," then I'd see your point. Unfortunately for this girl, the curriculum did not allow that latitude of choice. I am reminded of my thesis. The subject matter was extremely enclosed as was the format. There wasn't a lot of wiggle room for my own interpretations. And that is my point - whether you agree on what the format of a class should or should not be - it's ultimately your choice to make.

Try passing a nude painting class by painting a fruit bowl.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#84 Mar 5, 2013
REDNECK HIPPIE wrote:
<quoted text>
Now who is being inane.
She followed the course curriculum, up to the point where she was being forced to do something morally abhorrent to her. She proposed an alternative, using Spanish and that was rejected. The instructor deviated from the curriculum, to allow her an acceptable alternative. Then harshly graded it as a way to show her authority.
I took my Algebra final in my freshman year with a 102 temperature. I didn't do so well. I talked my professor into giving me a re-test. It's called a blessing - and it almost never happens in school. It's not the student's role to propose anything in school. Had the professor not allowed me a retake, I would've had to take the course again - at my cost.

Besides - what makes this girl any different from the rest of the kids in her class?

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#86 Mar 5, 2013
REDNECK HIPPIE wrote:
<quoted text>
Quitting may not have been an option. I can see many areas of concern with that course of action. No other comparable class available, course required to graduate, decline in GPA if course abandoned. So in my opinion, there was force applied.
There you go - and what does that specifically point to?

The not being able to quit scenario?

Level 5

Since: Sep 08

Neon City Oh.

#87 Mar 5, 2013
When I had world history we had to read the Magna Carta. Those darn foreigners.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Weird Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Make A Sentance out of a 5 letter word. (Nov '09) 8 min Rose_NoHo 33,900
Crystal_Clears Kitchen (Refurbished) 8 min Enzo49 1,872
News Evolution vs. Creation (Jul '11) 14 min syamsu 186,828
6 letter word ...change one letter game (Oct '08) 24 min SLY WEST 30,663
Change 1 letter game! (Nov '11) 36 min SLY WEST 6,204
Last Post Wins! (Aug '08) 39 min beatlesinthebog 143,080
Change-one-of-six-letters (Dec '12) 41 min SLY WEST 7,180
What song are you listening to right now? (Apr '08) 1 hr SweLL GirL 181,193
El's Kitchen (Feb '09) 2 hr By The Seashore 54,076
More from around the web