Family’s Home Raided over Facebook Photo of Child’s Rifle

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“ASPIRE 2 INSPIRE B4 U EXPIRE”

Level 8

Since: Jul 08

USA

#1 Mar 19, 2013
http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes/top-stor...

New Jersey police and Dept. of Children and Families officials raided the home of a firearms instructor and demanded to see his guns after he posted a Facebook photo of his 11-year-old son holding a rifle.

“Someone called family services about the photo,” said Evan Nappen, an attorney representing Shawn Moore.“It led to an incredible, heavy-handed raid on his house. They wanted to see his gun safe, his guns and search his house. They even threatened to take his kids.”

Moore was not arrested or charged....
Wesson Smith

Medford, NY

#2 Mar 20, 2013
Ah yes, Facebook.
The moron just HAD TO post a picture of a kid holding a gun.....lol.....all I can say is, I hope he learned his lesson.

“Geaux Tigers!”

Level 9

Since: Jun 12

Down on the bayou

#3 Mar 20, 2013
Wesson Smith wrote:
Ah yes, Facebook.
The moron just HAD TO post a picture of a kid holding a gun.....lol.....all I can say is, I hope he learned his lesson.
Not sure why that makes him the moron. Lots of kids grow up around guns, and learn to handle them at an early age.
Wesson Smith

Medford, NY

#4 Mar 20, 2013
65007noogard wrote:
<quoted text>
Not sure why that makes him the moron. Lots of kids grow up around guns, and learn to handle them at an early age.
Agreed, and I have no issue with such kids and their families, more power to them. What was moronic was him posting that picture on Facebook, where anyone can interpret anything many diferent ways. It is my opinion that he should have been smarter than to open himself up to such interpretations.....especially in these "gun sensitive" times.

Level 8

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#5 Mar 20, 2013
Wesson Smith wrote:
<quoted text>
Agreed, and I have no issue with such kids and their families, more power to them. What was moronic was him posting that picture on Facebook, where anyone can interpret anything many diferent ways. It is my opinion that he should have been smarter than to open himself up to such interpretations.....especially in these "gun sensitive" times.
Not in the Republic of the U.S.A. Home of the free that I grew up in. It is time to wake up and smell the stench of your rights rotting away.

“ASPIRE 2 INSPIRE B4 U EXPIRE”

Level 8

Since: Jul 08

USA

#6 Mar 20, 2013
Wesson Smith wrote:
<quoted text>
Agreed, and I have no issue with such kids and their families, more power to them. What was moronic was him posting that picture on Facebook, where anyone can interpret anything many diferent ways. It is my opinion that he should have been smarter than to open himself up to such interpretations.....especially in these "gun sensitive" times.
So, in the America of today, if you post a picture of a perfectly legal activity involving a minor, you should expect to have your rights trampled on by Big Brother, for your own protection and the protection of the minor. You should stand aside and allow Big Brother to ride roughshod over your rights as an American. You should never ever express displeasure at the heavy handed treatment by Big brother of a citizen engaging in a legal activity.
I for one find the actions of the government to be onerous and illegal. They need to get out of our bedrooms and out of our lives. Let us live our lives as free Americans and concentrate their energies on the big picture. Poverty, crime, drugs, human trafficking, abuse of power and zero tolerance policies.

“frequently laughing”

Level 8

Since: Apr 09

Hotel California

#7 Mar 20, 2013
What did I take away from this?

Big brother isn't limited to Government, it's 'friends' and neighbors too.

Anything posted on Facebook can and will be used against you.

Other people's phobias and their need to "feel safe" trumps common sense.
Wesson Smith

Medford, NY

#8 Mar 20, 2013
REDNECK HIPPIE wrote:
<quoted text>
So, in the America of today, if you post a picture of a perfectly legal activity involving a minor, you should expect to have your rights trampled on by Big Brother, for your own protection and the protection of the minor. You should stand aside and allow Big Brother to ride roughshod over your rights as an American. You should never ever express displeasure at the heavy handed treatment by Big brother of a citizen engaging in a legal activity.
I for one find the actions of the government to be onerous and illegal. They need to get out of our bedrooms and out of our lives. Let us live our lives as free Americans and concentrate their energies on the big picture. Poverty, crime, drugs, human trafficking, abuse of power and zero tolerance policies.
I agree with you as well.....
I don't know what the right answer is. All I'm saying is that it was moronic of the person who posted that picture.
But also think of "what if"? What if this family was wacko? It seems they are OK, but what if they weren't? What if a month from now you read about them in the paper.....that they killed their neighbors and then committeed suicide? Then you have the flip-side, people blaming the government for NOT doing something. There are positives and negatives regarding freedoms and boundaries...... Sometimes errors (or perceieved errors) occur, we are not a perfect society by any means.

Everyone is OK, and we should all be thankful for that.....

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#9 Mar 20, 2013
how stupid can ya get.
what was the point anyway, to say boys will be boys?
is he teaching his son, ur not a man unless u own a gun?
what he should be teaching his kid is to have respect for it and not show off.
its this kind of thing that leads to accidents.
the dumbazz.
IMO they did the right thing checking it out.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#10 Mar 20, 2013
REDNECK HIPPIE wrote:
<quoted text>
So, in the America of today, if you post a picture of a perfectly legal activity involving a minor, you should expect to have your rights trampled on by Big Brother, for your own protection and the protection of the minor. You should stand aside and allow Big Brother to ride roughshod over your rights as an American. You should never ever express displeasure at the heavy handed treatment by Big brother of a citizen engaging in a legal activity.
I for one find the actions of the government to be onerous and illegal. They need to get out of our bedrooms and out of our lives. Let us live our lives as free Americans and concentrate their energies on the big picture. Poverty, crime, drugs, human trafficking, abuse of power and zero tolerance policies.
I really hate to keep on reminding you of this, but you really need to start thinking things through before you get up on that wooden crate of your's.

First of all - if this guy didn't set his Facebook account to private, he IS a fool!!! I remember back when I first signed up for Facebook - I was getting friend requests from every Chinese hooker in the Western Hemisphere. Secondly, if indeed he did have it set to private, that means only his "friends" can view his timeline - even if his "friends" included his ex-wife or ex-girlfriends or disgruntled customers. The New Jersey Police reacted after they were contacted by his "friends" - they did not infringe on his rights. Lastly, if you post pictures on Facebook - a public site - you put your life in the public's eye - there is nothing private about a Facebook account.

“ASPIRE 2 INSPIRE B4 U EXPIRE”

Level 8

Since: Jul 08

USA

#11 Mar 20, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
I really hate to keep on reminding you of this, but you really need to start thinking things through before you get up on that wooden crate of your's.
First of all - if this guy didn't set his Facebook account to private, he IS a fool!!! I remember back when I first signed up for Facebook - I was getting friend requests from every Chinese hooker in the Western Hemisphere. Secondly, if indeed he did have it set to private, that means only his "friends" can view his timeline - even if his "friends" included his ex-wife or ex-girlfriends or disgruntled customers. The New Jersey Police reacted after they were contacted by his "friends" - they did not infringe on his rights. Lastly, if you post pictures on Facebook - a public site - you put your life in the public's eye - there is nothing private about a Facebook account.
So, are you saying that big brother does not have or use the capability to monitor "private electronic communication. The Carnivore program allows big brother to monitor email, social networks etc. So, an American citizen posted a photo of a legal activity involving his son and big brother decided that he needed to be investigated. Without a warrant, they attempted "illegally' to search his home (violation of 4th Amendment), tried to force him to allow them illegal access to his firearms (again, violation of 4th Amendment.
Yet, you seem to be okay with the violation of his guaranteed rights, just because he posted a picture on a social network, that was completely legal, both the activity and the posting. So, American citizens should curtail their legal activities in order to prevent Big Brother from violating their rights under the founding documents of the country.
If the violation of an American citizens rights is not a valid reason to climb on your soap box, then what is.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#13 Mar 21, 2013
REDNECK HIPPIE wrote:
<quoted text>
So, are you saying that big brother does not have or use the capability to monitor "private electronic communication. The Carnivore program allows big brother to monitor email, social networks etc. So, an American citizen posted a photo of a legal activity involving his son and big brother decided that he needed to be investigated. Without a warrant, they attempted "illegally' to search his home (violation of 4th Amendment), tried to force him to allow them illegal access to his firearms (again, violation of 4th Amendment.
Yet, you seem to be okay with the violation of his guaranteed rights, just because he posted a picture on a social network, that was completely legal, both the activity and the posting. So, American citizens should curtail their legal activities in order to prevent Big Brother from violating their rights under the founding documents of the country.
If the violation of an American citizens rights is not a valid reason to climb on your soap box, then what is.
LMFGDAO!!! I'm sure the New Jersey Police Department has the time to monitor all 1 billion Facebook accounts. When you post pictures on a public forum such as Facebook, you are allowing Facebook to share your pictures.

It's in the agreement:

1) User Ownership Rights: "You own all of the content and information you post on Facebook, and you can control how it is shared through your privacy and application settings."

2) Facebook Rights to User Content: "You grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it."

3) Use of Profile Photos in Advertising: Here is the network's disclosure on how it uses your image in ads: "You can use your privacy settings to limit how your name and profile picture may be associated with commercial, sponsored, or related content (such as a brand you like) served or enhanced by us. You give us permission to use your name and profile picture in connection with that content, subject to the limits you place."

Not to mention the "like" button.

"The like button is a social networking feature, allowing users to express their appreciation of content such as status updates, comments, photos, and advertisements. It is also a social plug-in of the Facebook Platform – launched on April 21 – that enables participating Internet websites to display a similar like button."

"Continuously liking any contents of one's friend will cause flooding of notifications on his/her part and FaceBook will display message to the liker stating that (s)he must slow down; (s)he must wait for five minutes in order for him/her to continue liking."

“Mrs_E”

Level 7

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#14 Mar 21, 2013
I like Facebook, because it connects me with everyone in my life I ever knew. That doesnt mean they are my friends.. or have my best interests or beliefs..I post less and less personal stuff as time goes by because it is a wide open window into my life if Im not careful..There was ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG,, with this man posting this pic..NOTHING..what went wrong is a "do-gooder_ zealot logging an anonymous complaint re his pic,,and the "authorities" going overboard.... this shit is going to happen over and over,,,who says,,,we arent losing our rights and being strongarmed re our stands,,it just happened to this guy...
save the micro-anaylizing of my words...fellas....it is what it is to me...

“ASPIRE 2 INSPIRE B4 U EXPIRE”

Level 8

Since: Jul 08

USA

#15 Mar 21, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
LMFGDAO!!! I'm sure the New Jersey Police Department has the time to monitor all 1 billion Facebook accounts. When you post pictures on a public forum such as Facebook, you are allowing Facebook to share your pictures.
It's in the agreement:
1) User Ownership Rights: "You own all of the content and information you post on Facebook, and you can control how it is shared through your privacy and application settings."
2) Facebook Rights to User Content: "You grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it."
3) Use of Profile Photos in Advertising: Here is the network's disclosure on how it uses your image in ads: "You can use your privacy settings to limit how your name and profile picture may be associated with commercial, sponsored, or related content (such as a brand you like) served or enhanced by us. You give us permission to use your name and profile picture in connection with that content, subject to the limits you place."
Not to mention the "like" button.
"The like button is a social networking feature, allowing users to express their appreciation of content such as status updates, comments, photos, and advertisements. It is also a social plug-in of the Facebook Platform – launched on April 21 – that enables participating Internet websites to display a similar like button."
"Continuously liking any contents of one's friend will cause flooding of notifications on his/her part and FaceBook will display message to the liker stating that (s)he must slow down; (s)he must wait for five minutes in order for him/her to continue liking."
Did I say NJPD, no I did not, but it is a known fact, verified by the federal government that they have and use the capability to monitor all electronic transmissions, to look for "suspicious" terrorist activity. The government is not your friend. and no amount of spin will make the actions of the PD and welfare system right or legal.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#16 Mar 21, 2013
REDNECK HIPPIE wrote:
<quoted text>
Did I say NJPD, no I did not, but it is a known fact, verified by the federal government that they have and use the capability to monitor all electronic transmissions, to look for "suspicious" terrorist activity. The government is not your friend. and no amount of spin will make the actions of the PD and welfare system right or legal.
Try to stay on topic.

This was in NJ, correct?

The NJ PD did not report him - one of his friends did. Sometimes even your "friends" are not your friends.

**********

“Someone called family services about the photo,” said Evan Nappen, an attorney representing Shawn Moore.

“The department has a child abuse hotline for the state of New Jersey and anybody can make a call to that hotline,” spokesperson Kristen Brown said.“We are required to follow up on every single allegation that comes into the central registry.”

Brown said their role is not to go out and search Facebook for photos of children holding weapons.

“In general our role is to investigate allegations of child abuse and neglect,” she said.

But the person who reported the false allegations of abuse cannot be held liable, she noted.

“You can’t be prosecuted for making an allegation of child abuse –even if it’s false,” she said.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#17 Mar 21, 2013
REDNECK HIPPIE wrote:
<quoted text>
Did I say NJPD, no I did not, but it is a known fact, verified by the federal government that they have and use the capability to monitor all electronic transmissions, to look for "suspicious" terrorist activity. The government is not your friend. and no amount of spin will make the actions of the PD and welfare system right or legal.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/30/us-...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-573460...

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2011/...

“ASPIRE 2 INSPIRE B4 U EXPIRE”

Level 8

Since: Jul 08

USA

#18 Mar 21, 2013
Fortunately, the father knew his rights and had his lawyer on speaker phone. No warrant= no access.

“ASPIRE 2 INSPIRE B4 U EXPIRE”

Level 8

Since: Jul 08

USA

#19 Mar 21, 2013
milwaukee69 wrote:
<quoted text>
Try to stay on topic.
This was in NJ, correct?
The NJ PD did not report him - one of his friends did. Sometimes even your "friends" are not your friends.
**********
“Someone called family services about the photo,” said Evan Nappen, an attorney representing Shawn Moore.
“The department has a child abuse hotline for the state of New Jersey and anybody can make a call to that hotline,” spokesperson Kristen Brown said.“We are required to follow up on every single allegation that comes into the central registry.”
Brown said their role is not to go out and search Facebook for photos of children holding weapons.
“In general our role is to investigate allegations of child abuse and neglect,” she said.
But the person who reported the false allegations of abuse cannot be held liable, she noted.
“You can’t be prosecuted for making an allegation of child abuse –even if it’s false,” she said.
Try not to be an apologist for the system. What the police were attempting to do was illegal. Blatant attempts to circumvent the law using intimidation, threats or coercion does not make their actions legal.

“I know where you are,”

Level 8

Since: Jun 08

Right here under my thumb

#20 Mar 21, 2013
REDNECK HIPPIE wrote:
<quoted text>
Try not to be an apologist for the system. What the police were attempting to do was illegal. Blatant attempts to circumvent the law using intimidation, threats or coercion does not make their actions legal.
Apologist?

LMFGDAO...all I did was quote from the article that you posted.

There is more to this story than what's on the surface. There's a reason this guy was reported - maybe a past conviction, but something's missing. Secondly - the cops didn't report him - a Facebook member did. It's easy to use Facebook against someone if you want. You have to be really careful what you post - all of the time. It is a public forum. I personally do not see anything wrong with the picture content - that being said, my opinion was obviously not shared by someone who knows him - aka: an ex-wife, ex-girlfriend, boyfriend of ex-girlfriend, etc.

“Beware ye of the dragon's lair”

Level 4

Since: Sep 12

for ye are juicy medium rare

#21 Mar 21, 2013
Wow

Ultimately, we are all responsible for what we put out there in cyberland.
It's still murky waters, IMO, if you want to hire a lawyer and track someone down I assume you have the right to do so.
It's the level of intensity in which the cyber conversations can go. It's been said a million times because it's such an impersonal way to converse that folks become braver and pop off.
We all know it, I don't know a single poster that hasn't been sucked into some type of drama here on topix.
So many different opinions,.... 1000's can not all see eye to eye.

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