Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 223289 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

The Dude

UK

#121674 Sep 4, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh.
I see.
So that justifies your failure to accept the fact of his existence?
I wont even bother going into any reasoning with you...
I have been down that road before and the only thing it lead me to is the realization that you are intellectually irredeemable.
I haven't failed to accept the fact of its existence as it is you who has failed to show it to be a fact. I know you won't go into reasoning with me or anyone else for that matter as you were shown to be just another preacher faking knowledge a long time ago. Once again, I accept your concession.
The Dude

UK

#121675 Sep 4, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
What exactly is contemporayry evidenc of T-Rex?
Describe it.
IS there evidence apart from the REMAINS that are left from the PAST lives of T-rex?
Why APART from their remains? You can't GET any more contemporary than that. Are you mental?

Sorry, that last bit shouldn't have even been a question.
The Dude

UK

#121676 Sep 4, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
And with that you could send an innocent man to jail; simply because of the "evidence" you have experienced/witnessed.
The man could in fact have been trying to assist the man who was stabbed prior to his arrival on the scene.
EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE IS NOT SUFFICIENT TO PROVE THE TRUTH.
The truth is a man is holding a knife embedded in a corpse. So it IS in this case enough to show the truth. I never claimed the man holding it was the murderer.

Stop whining because you don't have anything better to offer than empiricism.
The Dude

UK

#121677 Sep 4, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
NONE OF THAT IS RELEVANT TO THE PARTICULAR DISCUSSION i WAS HAVING WITH TED.
Yes it does, though I understand if you want to avoid being backed into a corner again like Messy and Wonder Woman.
The Dude

UK

#121678 Sep 4, 2014
wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
science and its finding are in the same line as trucks and their performance, businessís and there performance, hospitals and their performance, electronics and their performance stc. etc.. they all pay someone to analyze them to say they are the best and say they are right and number one. using trucks in this analogy every year we see some company say dodge is best, another company will say ford is best, another company will say chevy is best and yet another company will say toyota is best. they all can not be the best but shell out that $$ and they can be.
if you pay enough to the right experts they will say and back what you want them to. we live in a world where money is the main speaker(greed) and money can buy the best experts to verify (be it honestly or dishonestly) the evidence presented to them as accurate and correct. the highest price buys the best results. those little dude are the facts.
Really bad analogy. What you fail to grasp here is that each and every one of these vehicles are essentially the same thing. In other words all experts are using evolution in some way. Not one of them hires magical angels for transport purposes. And more importantly, they all WORK. Because evolution works.

In general you don't get large corporate interests dropping money down a bottomless hole. They want to see returns. If they don't get it they will find someone else. Just like oil companies use old earth evolutionary principles to find oil. If young earth geology worked they would happily go along with it. They don't care about any alleged underlying philosophies. All they're interested in is profit.

Evolution works. That's the fact. Sorry if you don't like it.
The Dude

UK

#121679 Sep 4, 2014
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text>
.
.
<quoted text>
It is an assumption to say that the same concept can be automatically be assigned to biological organisms. There is no evidence supporting it where there is much evidence of manufactured goods.
I took this to mean there is no experience of seeing a chain of descent, but if you can show experience (not inference) where one can be certain one organism descended from another I would like to see the evidence.
.
<quoted text>
Why would a paleontologist make such a determination?
.
Let's see.... how about he is looking for a chain of descent and viola.
.
<quoted text>
The dating of the samples also corresponds with evolutionary predictions of when such creatures would have existed.
.
And how was this determined?
Already answered. Go back and refute it from the last few hundred times over the past four months.
wondering

Morris, OK

#121680 Sep 4, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
I did. I have no problem with you showing different things. That's when I show you the logical consequences of your implications. If you don't want to stand by them or have them eviscerated then don't bring them up.
Otherwise I welcome you to do so. It's not our fault if your "differences" lead to absurdity.
you said evolution is false?? that is new. logical consequences of your implications?? haha. that is where you fail yet again. they are not mine, they are from science. so which do we choose to stand behind from science? only what we agree on or what it shows? the choice is there so you pick.
wondering

Morris, OK

#121681 Sep 4, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Great. Now point to the parts where they claim that this either refutes evolution or shows that cows should be considered more closely related to humans using these methods. Or feel free to admit that fundies are misrepresenting the scientists by making any such implication.
again you are like a programmed robot,, "nano nano it is either evolution or it is nothing". like I said studies vary and I gave links. if you have a problem with them take it up with science not me for they are not my studies, they are studies science have made. you can hammer me all you want but you are hammering the wrong nail. those studies are from science, not me.
wondering

Morris, OK

#121682 Sep 4, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Really bad analogy. What you fail to grasp here is that each and every one of these vehicles are essentially the same thing. In other words all experts are using evolution in some way. Not one of them hires magical angels for transport purposes. And more importantly, they all WORK. Because evolution works.
In general you don't get large corporate interests dropping money down a bottomless hole. They want to see returns. If they don't get it they will find someone else. Just like oil companies use old earth evolutionary principles to find oil. If young earth geology worked they would happily go along with it. They don't care about any alleged underlying philosophies. All they're interested in is profit.
Evolution works. That's the fact. Sorry if you don't like it.
what you fail to grasp is each and every science study also comes to the same result, some are tweeked here and there and the highest pay get the best backing. like it or not those are the facts.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#121683 Sep 4, 2014
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text>
.
<quoted text>And when you look at a series of years in the life span of a specific car model, you can see the progression quite easily. It's very rare when the changes from one model year to the next as so drastic that you cannot see the old in the new. In fact I can't remember one that different. So based on that criteria, you can certainly use the term evolution to describe a chain of descent for automobiles.)
.
Yet even a child can tell you this is a result of intelligent design.
THAT was NOT his point. He uses an ANALOGY to explain GRADUAL CHANGE.
Your answer is IRRELEVANT because you jump to another subject.
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text>
(<quoted text>The mistake you make is that you used only genetic similarity. There are more studies linking ape to man. In fact the relationship was clear well before genetics, genetic testing was more the cherry on top than an earth-shattering revelation ... well except for Creationists who continue to deny the relationship. Genetically, we are closely related to a number of animals, but when all evidence is taken into account, we are more closely related to modern Chimpanzees than Holsteins.)
.
When dealing with evolution, what is more important than genetic similarity? As you stated in your car example similarity in appearance is not that important.
AGAIN, you are just EVADING the point.
The subject was NOT the importance of genetic similarity but the way several lines of evidence line up in favour of evolution.
Again an IRRELEVANT answer.
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text>
Lastly is seems to me that if evolution is as predicted, we wouldn't expect this similarity with the cow.
This is what Ted said: "Genetically, we are closely related to a number of animals, but when all evidence is taken into account, we are more closely related to modern Chimpanzees than Holsteins."

This is EXACTLY what we would expect form evolutionary prediction by nested hierarchy.
We should exactly find that humans, apes, cows (placental mammals) are more closely related to any marsupial species (non-placental mammals) than to reptiles.
We should exactly find that humans as a placental mammal are more related to cows and apes (both placental mammals as well) than to any marsupial species (non-placental mammals).
We should find that humans (primate placental mammal) are more closely related to chimps (also primate placental mammal) than to cows (even-toed ungulate placental mammal).

“Merry Christmas”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Happy New Year

#121684 Sep 4, 2014
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Tell your mouth to stop pretending he is my vagina!!
Referencing your response to: Hand of God not your hand. He wants to be Ass of God. As God, I was letting you know about his move to be Ass of God. Guess it shot right over your head.

Anyway, I would be happy to fill any of your vagina needs. I can be on top of it immediately.

“Merry Christmas”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Happy New Year

#121685 Sep 4, 2014
Those with limited experience, education and understanding of science have made claims that science doesn't follow the facts, but rather the money. This ignorance is reflected in a growing movement comprised of individuals that accept unsupported conspiracy thinking as the basis for their conclusions. The view that science follows the money rather than the facts is one of these conspiracy ideas and is obviously an outsider view based on a truncated view of selected and not representative events. The outsider sees the negative events that are available to them and without further thought or critical and objective review make erroneous conclusions. Because people have done bad things for bad reasons in science then it all must be that way. Big leaps for such little people.

Big money, in corporate, government or individual form, often fund research that does not lead to a desired conclusion or profit. If they didn't take the risk, their would be no new rewards, financially, socially or intellectually. Successful ideas rise through a swarm of false starts, blind alleys, wrong ideas, imperfect executions and failed concepts. When you only see the final products or read negative stories about those caught in the wrong, the myopic person draws their expected conclusion.

I don't claim that all research is pure, that people are perfect and wrong doesn't get done, but the absolute claim that it is money the ultimately decides the conclusions of research rather than the facts is wrong.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#121686 Sep 4, 2014
deutscher Nationalstolz wrote:
<quoted text>
And you should read your book "How can I be a decent human despite of being an American?".
I *am* a decent American.

Perhaps you might try to be a decent German instead of an arrogant little shit.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#121687 Sep 4, 2014
deutscher Nationalstolz wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a liar. I am German and I don't know this saying.
I told you that he had no sense of humor, didn't I?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#121688 Sep 4, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
No it is not a stupid word, just because you canít get you German trained tongue around the letter R and it comes out wuwal is no oneís problem but your own
Great! Now everything he posts is going to sound like Elmer Fudd in my head!

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#121689 Sep 4, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I know jaguar cats are a south American animal however technically we were talking about cars and the German and English pronunciation of BMW, Jaguar, and to some extent Aston Martin.
We donít have the Rabbit here, and Iíve never seen one so just looked it up... chuckle
Rabbit = Golf in Europe (which is the German version of Gulf)
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#121690 Sep 4, 2014
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text>
.
It would seem that if you could give evidence of your assertion you would have done it, but consistent with your MO, you have just made another assertion and coupled it with invective.
.
Secondly, I am not anti-science, what I dispute is the conclusions drawn from the evidence. An example of this is the "chain of descent" offered as evidence that one creature descended from another because of similarity. One could just as well reason that one car descended from another due to similarity.
.
Lastly I hyperlinked a study which showed the genetic similarity between cow and man was closer than chimp and man. I asked is it reasonable to state that man descended from cow because the similarity was closer. You all had opportunity to look at the study yourself and make a rebuttal but none of you did. Its no wonder most of the world does not believe your position and the majority of Americans (who are not uneducated) don't either. If you want to berate anyone it is yourself for your inability to convince supposedly evolved people (the highest in the animal kingdom) of your position. I would suggest to enhance your potential to convince you take a course in manners.
Firstly, could you repost the link to that article again, please, misted it and Topix is not quite user friendly in its search engine.

Secondly, you are not having enough knowledge and understanding of biology to be entitled to assess that "the "chain of descent" offered as evidence that one creature descended from another because of similarity."

For that you need to read into the literature, as EVERYBODY is bound to do BEFORE starting to criticize things. The ONLY things going on here is that we need to EDUCATE you ALL THE TIME on biology.

Again on THIS issue we need to educate you as well. That one sentence alone "One could just as well reason that one car descended from another due to similarity." makes just me curling my toes. It shows a GROSS lack of understanding what biology ACTUALLY says about phylogeny. Cars, for instance, do not show nested hierarchy. To name just ONE aspect.

I am sorry your last paragraph again is annoying.
There have been several "articles" provided by you that were rebutted - NONE of those rebuttals you addressed. AND you don't answer questions posed to you - despite the fact you are in a public forum. Hence, pertaining "make a rebuttal but none of you did" I would suggest you temper your moral assessments a bit.

WHERE, for instance, can I find your answer on my questions posed?

Public opinion? Let's have a look.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_of_support...
In the USA 54% of the public affirm evolution and only 31% YEC. 14% are sitting on the fence. 22% out of those 54% evolutionists of those believe in a guided evolution. But still, they are evolutionists.

And the USA is an EXCEPTION in the western world. It matches with the Arabic countries and some eastern European countries. CONGRATULATIONS. See the chart in the wiki link.

But, anyway, you are wrong. Even on the USA figures but also making the very common mistake among Americans to identify "the world" with "the USA".
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#121691 Sep 4, 2014
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
I told you that he had no sense of humor, didn't I?
Like our previous Nazionaler Trotzprotz, what was his name again, the German Shepherds here are chiefly engaged in barking at other people in utter effort to be detested.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#121692 Sep 4, 2014
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
I *am* a decent American.
Perhaps you might try to be a decent German instead of an arrogant little shit.
He seems to forget that German is the largest ancestral group in the USA, counting some 50 million people. I bet especially those contributed to the American rudeness and lack of culture, don't you think?
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#121693 Sep 4, 2014
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Rabbit = Golf in Europe (which is the German version of Gulf)
Don't worry, the Germans who come to the Netherlands are always pronouncing the Dutch words with the "sch" sound wrongly. So, just say "Bee eM double You" to BMW.

Only the German Shepherds will growl as if you were stepping on their tails.

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