Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 173412 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#120918 Aug 27, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>This is getting a bit tiresome, but if you think I support Creationism you haven't been reading my comments on the subject. I am not religious.
Further, the self-satisfied notion that an "intelligent" trigger has been debunked is not evidence of an open mind. Like so many others, you speak with a sense of smug certainty about issues where there is as yet no basis for certainty.
Positing an intelligent trigger does nothing except move the goalposts back another 12 inches without actually solving the problem.
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#120919 Aug 27, 2014
replaytime wrote:
Woolly mammoths still lived when the Great Pyramid of Giza was constructed. The pyramid was completed in 2540 BC.. The last known population of woolly mammoths remained on Wrangel Island in the Arctic Ocean until 4,000 years ago.
That's nice, Repro. Did they walk like an Egyptian?
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#120920 Aug 27, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>I'll put it as plainly as I can. As I see it, It is reasonable to assume that primordial life had the instincts of fear, and the need to defend itself, thus an instinct for survival. Abiogenesis demonstrates none of those traits. Therefore it is not an adequate replication or explanation of the original life process.
How is that reasonable before brains developed? Especially in light of the fact that all life without nervous systems do not require such instincts?
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#120921 Aug 27, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
tactic 44,....that's where you say there's no evidence of a creator of life ,..then you say there's evidence that life created itself,...uh none!
By the way,..do you believe the universe created itself , then created life?
Sure there's evidence of a creator of life. It's called chemistry.
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#120922 Aug 27, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
I highly recommend you not to engage in biology. Apparently it is not your trade.
Of course that will change when you would have read some books about it.
But as you didn't, you are just tattling plain nonsense and rubbish.
And now you are going to explain WHY metamorphosis in Turritopsis dohrnii and WHY sequential hermaphroditism among Clown fish (also among many others species to be found) were to be of any problem for evolution theory, because it escapes me completely.
(Hint though: Replaytime has not the faintest idea what he is tattling about).
You're not wrong.
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#120923 Aug 27, 2014
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would God -- an omnipotent being -- need to "rest" at all?
Bad back?

“Happiness comes through giving”

Level 7

Since: Feb 08

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#120924 Aug 27, 2014
inbred Genius wrote:
<quoted text>
that was the rumor I learned at vacation bible school, about 60 years ago....do the new history books change that too?
Not all new books. Some stick to the same old thing. Well there is one new book called, "Adam and Irving", with an entirely different version of the snake.

“Happiness comes through giving”

Level 7

Since: Feb 08

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#120925 Aug 27, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Then "God" need not necessarily be intelligent, and could easily be a poetic metaphor for whatever physics was responsible for the universe. Which is nice and all, but scientifically useless.
One could reason that since people (well some people) are intelligent, an "intelligence" was required to generate them.But I agree that if there is a primordial "creative force", assuming that it is intelligent or caring requires a leap of faith.

“Happiness comes through giving”

Level 7

Since: Feb 08

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#120926 Aug 27, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Since life does not require a survival instinct your opinion is irrelevant.
I disagree with your premise.

“Happiness comes through giving”

Level 7

Since: Feb 08

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#120927 Aug 27, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
If something always existed then the answer to what created it is absolutely nothing.
"If" indeed.

“Happiness comes through giving”

Level 7

Since: Feb 08

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#120928 Aug 27, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
How is that reasonable before brains developed? Especially in light of the fact that all life without nervous systems do not require such instincts?
If you approach something and it recoils in fear, it has a survival instinct.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#120929 Aug 27, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>Bad back?
Yeah. Twisted His back creating Andromeda.

In His agony, He screamed out "Jesus!!!", and before you know it, we had the New Testament.

“Happiness comes through giving”

Level 7

Since: Feb 08

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#120930 Aug 27, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
How is that reasonable before brains developed? Especially in light of the fact that all life without nervous systems do not require such instincts?
I must admit I admire your sense of certainty on matters about which there can be no certainty. Well, maybe it's your hubris I admire.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#120931 Aug 27, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>I'll put it as plainly as I can. As I see it, It is reasonable to assume that primordial life had the instincts of fear, and the need to defend itself, thus an instinct for survival.

Why do you make this assumption? Why would primordial life have to have these attributes? Fear of what? Defend itself from what? You seem to be suggesting predators and prey existed from the very beginning. Why?

[QUOTE who="Lawrence Wolf"]Abiogenesis demonstrates none of those traits. Therefore it is not an adequate replication or explanation of the original life process.
Based solely on your above assumption, I suppose so. But since you have shown no reason to accept your assumption, this is an unwarranted conclusion.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#120932 Aug 27, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>
I must admit I admire your sense of certainty on matters about which there can be no certainty. Well, maybe it's your hubris I admire.
You're doing exactly what you're accusing him of.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#120933 Aug 27, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>I disagree with your premise.
Sorry, but it is an observed fact that life does not require a drive for survival. Bacteria do not have such; plants do not have such; fungi do not have such. the premise is solid.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#120934 Aug 27, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>If you approach something and it recoils in fear, it has a survival instinct.
What if it simply recoils, but feels no fear? For example, do plants (say, the Venus Fly Trap) experience fear?

What if you have life that does NOT recoil at all, say a fungus?

“Happiness comes through giving”

Level 7

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#120935 Aug 27, 2014
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, but it is an observed fact that life does not require a drive for survival. Bacteria do not have such; plants do not have such; fungi do not have such. the premise is solid.
Bacteria replicate in an attempt to survive.

“Happiness comes through giving”

Level 7

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#120936 Aug 27, 2014
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
You're doing exactly what you're accusing him of.
I'm sorry you get that impression. From the beginning of this round of conversation, I've tried to convey my uncertainty about the issues under discussion. I think if you'd bother to check back, you might see my effort to raise more questions than I could answer.

Anyway, in stirring this level of ehthusiasm, I think I have encouraged a stimulating and passionate debate among some intelligent Topix contributors. Personally I found some it more open-minded than others, but most of it quite thought-provoking.

As for myself, I see far more questions than answers about why there is anything at all. I'll just return to where I started. When it comes to answers to the ultimate question, nobody knows nuttin'.
wondering

Sunset, TX

#120937 Aug 27, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Since life does not require a survival instinct your opinion is irrelevant.
what behavior ensures the survival of an organism? that would be self-preservation. it is universal among living organisms. thus survival instinct.

it could be said that reproduction in any way is a survival instinct to insure future life. on this level you have to think of survival of the species, not the individual. many species kill their mate after mating thus the survival instinct is the mating itself to insure future offspring even though it is deadly on an individual bases.

each organism exists as the result of reproduction. no reproduction=no survival

instead of just sticking to your fairytale of life does not require/not all life has survival instinct, show some evidence of what you say.

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