Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#120805 Aug 25, 2014
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Seemed like a comment that was to the point and accurate. Existence cannot be created because anything that creates has to exist already.
AND he hides away behind his non-religiousness to "prove" for the incorrectness of OB's statement.
AND referring to Sarah Palin is NOT a substantial, let alone relevant answer.

“Happiness comes through giving”

Level 7

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#120806 Aug 25, 2014
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Seemed like a comment that was to the point and accurate. Existence cannot be created because anything that creates has to exist already.
Look, I think we are dealing with two divergent views, both of which seem plausible.
One view is that if we say that something created existence, it is logical to ask what created the creator, and so on and so on. There would be no final answer.

The other view , which strikes me as equally reasonable, is that something cannot emerge from absolute nothing.

Yet here it is, and here we are to debate the issue. Though both views seem at odds with each other, this only deepens the mystery, at least for me. It is impossible to conceive of a primordial essence, yet equally impossible to imagine a 'nothingness' from which existence emerged.
The Early Dusk

Hemet, CA

#120807 Aug 25, 2014
in the monastery
7:41 PM pst

Since: Aug 14

Location hidden

#120808 Aug 25, 2014
PROFESSOR X wrote:
Atheistic Scientists were Humiliated As Their Junk DNA Evolution Paradigm recently Collapsed
Anti-theistic scientists, Ken Miller, Ayala, Dawkins, Collins, Falk and other junk DNA proponents made failed observations about DNA, such that their Darwinian evolution paradigm has collapsed. Not that long ago, junk DNA was being defended as an important element of the Darwinian evolution paradigm ... The question now seems to be whether Ayala, Dawkins, Collins, Falk and other junk DNA proponents will continue to defend junk DNA, whatever they call it?- Rob Crowther,PhD
Evolutionary Biologist Richard Sternberg discusses modern genomics and the collapse of evolutionists junk DNA theory.
http://www.cross.tv/66770
Doubt Atheism & Question Darwinism
http://www.evolutionfacts.blogspot.com
.
.....

......26Aug14......First,' I am the Lord thy GOD and thou shalt not have
strange gods before Me.'

tuco Blondie

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#120809 Aug 25, 2014
TedHOhio wrote:
<quoted text>I think you are making an assumption as if it were a fact. Yes, intelligence can arrange signals into information. However you are assuming that ONLY intelligence can create information. Check Koglomorov Complexity for a more mathematical explanation.
What SETI is looking for is patterns. The patterns MIGHT indicate intelligence. So far SETI has found many patterns in the radio signals, further research has so far assigned them a low probability as being produced by an intelligence.
You need to educate yourself on information theory,..information is not matter nor energy , its information. I could give you the person who said that , but what would it matter? you've already made up your mind.

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

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#120810 Aug 25, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
It's the ones who claim they know, is what bothers us the most.
Like you have?.......or are you going to lie hypocrite

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

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#120811 Aug 25, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
Either heads or tails, but nobody knows yet. Therefore be open to the possibility (of head) until the coin is tossed and lands...
<quoted text>
Tail is the most rational position to take?
Why?
How?
<quoted text>
If I provided it would you indeed accept it?
Tell me what you are looking for as evidence; for while you reject what I offer as evidence, you must have knowledge of the subject so that you can justify you rejection.
Careful,...your going to cause his head to explode

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#120812 Aug 26, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>It is just as "accurate" to say that the notion that something can emerge from absolute nothing is scientifically unsound.
And it is! Only the religious argue their creator emerged from nothing. The big bang theory only posits the universe as we know it began with the big bang. It does not posit anything came from nothing. Only made up gods do that.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#120813 Aug 26, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>If you want to cross verbal swords with me, prepare to "die".
Of laughter?

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#120816 Aug 26, 2014
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Of laughter?
Does topix TOCs have something about death threats...?

Perhaps he should be reported for being too blatantly christian on a public thread

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#120817 Aug 26, 2014
replaytime wrote:
Mastodon went extinct around 10,000 years ago but this one that was found in only 4 feet (1.2 meters) of lake silt is more than 10,000,000 years old they say. No surrounding strata to date it and only covered by around 4.8 inches per million years. What a joke.
Bachelor party goes to beach, finds mastodon skull
http://nypost.com/2014/06/16/bachelor-party-g...
Your bronze age mythology doped mind seems not to know much about geology.
I already knew more about it as a 12 year old boy, judged by this crap.
You think that in order to find old fossils or old earth layers you always have to dig thousands of feet. It isn't so. The ignorance gulps like goo out of your troubled mind.

Go and read a geology 101 level book before you making an utter fool out of yourself.
And who was the other idiot who voted "brilliant"?

Why does creationism lead to inane and insane idiocy?

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#120818 Aug 26, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
You need to educate yourself on information theory,..information is not matter nor energy , its information. I could give you the person who said that , but what would it matter? you've already made up your mind.
Now let's examine Ted's post again: "I think you are making an assumption as if it were a fact. Yes, intelligence can arrange signals into information. However you are assuming that ONLY intelligence can create information. Check Koglomorov Complexity for a more mathematical explanation.
What SETI is looking for is patterns. The patterns MIGHT indicate intelligence. So far SETI has found many patterns in the radio signals, further research has so far assigned them a low probability as being produced by an intelligence."

ANYONE here who sees the relationship between Ted's post and Bobo's answer?
Do you happen to see Kolgomorov Complexity being addressed? Do you see Ted's notion that intelligence is not the only source of information being answered? Do you see his point that we found many patterns in the SETI radio signals being addressed?

Neither do I.

I DO see a VERY interesting thing: "information is not matter nor energy , its information"
Well, tell that to your fellow creationist wafflers who invariably tattle about DNA - a macromolecule - being INFORMATION.

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#120819 Aug 26, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>It is just as "accurate" to say that the notion that something can emerge from absolute nothing is scientifically unsound.
Let's investigate what science says about "something emerges from nothing":
- cosmology (big bang theory) says that the onset of the universe was a state of very hot and dense energy. Very hot and dense energy? Everything BUT "nothing".
- abiogenesis says that life emerged out of organic molecules through biochemical processes, driven by either solar or geothermal energy. Organic molecules? Solar or geothermal energy? Everything BUT "nothing".

Now let's examine the religious point of view:
- God created the universe and life out of ....... uhhhhh ........ uhhhhh........(anyone?)..... uhhhh ..... well NOTHING. In the mainstream of Christian theology this is even confirmed, the so-called doctrine of creatio ex nihil - in plain English: creation out of nothing. Read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatio_ex_nihil...

You DO REALIZE that you were talking about RELIGION, do you?

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#120820 Aug 26, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>It is just as "accurate" to say that the notion that something can emerge from absolute nothing is scientifically unsound.
So why do you assume that science cannot do what you claim for your god?

Actually no, there is absolutely no reason in science why something cannot emerge from nothing and the concept is a quantum possibility. There are plenty of papers and discussion on the subject for your perusal.

Therefore not scientifically unsound but a real kick in the teeth for creatards who guess that their god dunitwiv nothing (read the babble) yet deny that possibility to anyone else.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#120821 Aug 26, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>It is just as "accurate" to say that the notion that something can emerge from absolute nothing is scientifically unsound.
Not as 'accurate' as you seem to think. yes, this is speculation, but it is based on the best science we have right now.

http://www.amazon.com/Universe-Nothing-There-...

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#120822 Aug 26, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>Look, I think we are dealing with two divergent views, both of which seem plausible.
One view is that if we say that something created existence, it is logical to ask what created the creator, and so on and so on. There would be no final answer.
The other view , which strikes me as equally reasonable, is that something cannot emerge from absolute nothing.
Yet here it is, and here we are to debate the issue. Though both views seem at odds with each other, this only deepens the mystery, at least for me. It is impossible to conceive of a primordial essence, yet equally impossible to imagine a 'nothingness' from which existence emerged.
Well, you have not shown that an infinite regress is impossible, so your first scenario is a possibility.

Second, we know that there *are* uncaused events and that things *can* spontaneously 'emerge from nothing'. In fact, both are commonplace among quantum level situations. The latter is regulated by issues of conservation of energy, but one amazing thing is that the universe as a whole has zero total energy! That is because gravitational energy counts negatively and actually cancels the energy from matter.

Now, while both scenarios are still possibilities, there are reasons to think that the second is more likely given our current understandings of science. The first is still an option, but it turns out not to be as compatible with quantum mechanics as the other.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#120823 Aug 26, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
You need to educate yourself on information theory,..information is not matter nor energy , its information. I could give you the person who said that , but what would it matter? you've already made up your mind.
It was Norbert Weiner. He went on to say that information is always associated with matter and uses matter and energy for its formation and transfer.

So, for example, pressure is not matter or energy. But pressure is an effect of matter. Momentum is not matter or energy. But it is an effect of matter and energy. Entropy is not matter or energy, but it is an effect of matter and energy. Information is actually closely associated with entropy.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#120824 Aug 26, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Does topix TOCs have something about death threats...?
Perhaps he should be reported for being too blatantly christian on a public thread
He's a raging religinut that's for sure. But I'm not one to complain of "harsh" language until I think it goes over the top.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#120825 Aug 26, 2014
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
He's a raging religinut that's for sure. But I'm not one to complain of "harsh" language until I think it goes over the top.
Funny how reglitards opt for threats when they have nothing else to offer. On another thread I have been threatened regularly, when the good christian perp decided that he was getting nowhere he decided to threaten my parents. Again, I would not buckle to his god so he then chose the threaten my children.

It seems to be the christian way and you can get used to it but I really do think child abuse and death threats are over the top.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#120826 Aug 26, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny how reglitards opt for threats when they have nothing else to offer. On another thread I have been threatened regularly, when the good christian perp decided that he was getting nowhere he decided to threaten my parents. Again, I would not buckle to his god so he then chose the threaten my children.
It seems to be the christian way and you can get used to it but I really do think child abuse and death threats are over the top.
I've been banned from some of the religinut threads for using terms they don't appreciate. I feel I get my pound of flesh.:-P

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