Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 223384 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Happiness comes through giving”

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#120831 Aug 26, 2014
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Of laughter?
Is there a better way to go?

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#120832 Aug 26, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's investigate what science says about "something emerges from nothing":
- cosmology (big bang theory) says that the onset of the universe was a state of very hot and dense energy. Very hot and dense energy? Everything BUT "nothing".
- abiogenesis says that life emerged out of organic molecules through biochemical processes, driven by either solar or geothermal energy. Organic molecules? Solar or geothermal energy? Everything BUT "nothing".
Now let's examine the religious point of view:
- God created the universe and life out of ....... uhhhhh ........ uhhhhh........(anyone?)..... uhhhh ..... well NOTHING. In the mainstream of Christian theology this is even confirmed, the so-called doctrine of creatio ex nihil - in plain English: creation out of nothing. Read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatio_ex_nihil...
You DO REALIZE that you were talking about RELIGION, do you?
I think you've gone off course a bit. We are speaking of what might have triggered the so-called Big Bang. That is the energy source to which I allude. Of course the question then becomes, where did that "trigger" come from? And so on ad infinitum.

Abiogenesis has never produced molecules that showed a survival instinct, thus it cannot be considered a reflection of how actual organic life began.
Also, when you speak of abiogenesis, you are speaking about a different question. Abiogenesis seeks to learn how life began, while the trigger of the Big Bang seeks to discover how anything began.
Morningtime

Los Angeles, CA

#120833 Aug 26, 2014
Do you see what I mean?
Even MY numbers are off. On Purpose?
Miscalculation?
Lack of ability to predict some of what may be?
Lack of an observation platform?
Angle of view?
(.) The dot in the middle is our knowledge. The parentheses are the boundary between what is obserevable and what is not.

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#120834 Aug 26, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
So why do you assume that science cannot do what you claim for your god?
Actually no, there is absolutely no reason in science why something cannot emerge from nothing and the concept is a quantum possibility. There are plenty of papers and discussion on the subject for your perusal.
Therefore not scientifically unsound but a real kick in the teeth for creatards who guess that their god dunitwiv nothing (read the babble) yet deny that possibility to anyone else.
Here we go again! I don't have a "god". Pay attention!

If there is anything I dislike more than a hyper-religious zealot, it is a "holier-than-thou" atheist.

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#120835 Aug 26, 2014
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Not as 'accurate' as you seem to think. yes, this is speculation, but it is based on the best science we have right now.
http://www.amazon.com/Universe-Nothing-There-...
Your link is to a book, which I don't have access to at present.
I've seen theories that involve quantum mechanics. But in my opinion quantum mechanics makes a better case for a "god" than it does for atheism.

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#120836 Aug 26, 2014
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, you have not shown that an infinite regress is impossible, so your first scenario is a possibility.
Second, we know that there *are* uncaused events and that things *can* spontaneously 'emerge from nothing'. In fact, both are commonplace among quantum level situations. The latter is regulated by issues of conservation of energy, but one amazing thing is that the universe as a whole has zero total energy! That is because gravitational energy counts negatively and actually cancels the energy from matter.
Now, while both scenarios are still possibilities, there are reasons to think that the second is more likely given our current understandings of science. The first is still an option, but it turns out not to be as compatible with quantum mechanics as the other.
I would argue that the "nothing" from which spontaneous things can emerge is actually "something". We simply don't know what it is.

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#120837 Aug 26, 2014
TedHOhio wrote:
<quoted text> The idea of information being unable to be created by another other than an intelligent source has been debunked for a long time. You really need to catch up. What Creationists do with this argument is pretty much typical obfuscation. An open mind is one, when presented with the evidence, adopts it. Since you have yet to present any actual evidence, my open mind is quite safe. You, on the other hand, like to accuse other people of being close-minded, yet you are the one who when presented with the evidence, denies it time and time again. I think that's Creationist tactic #41, accuse your opponents of using the precise tactics you are using to confuse any issue.... or is it #42? I don't think I have the latest playbook.
This is getting a bit tiresome, but if you think I support Creationism you haven't been reading my comments on the subject. I am not religious.
Further, the self-satisfied notion that an "intelligent" trigger has been debunked is not evidence of an open mind. Like so many others, you speak with a sense of smug certainty about issues where there is as yet no basis for certainty.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

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#120838 Aug 26, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>Here we go again! I don't have a "god". Pay attention!
If there is anything I dislike more than a hyper-religious zealot, it is a "holier-than-thou" atheist.
Or a Christian religious zealot who claims to have no religion, just a personal relationship with his magic sky daddy.
Cordwainer Trout

Elizabethtown, KY

#120839 Aug 26, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>I would argue that the "nothing" from which spontaneous things can emerge is actually "something". We simply don't know what it is.
It's God. Haven't you learned anything from watching Pat Robertson 24/7?

The energy you put into posting on boards of a hundred thousand plus with intricate argumentations you actually believe people read can only be explained by atheism... an unfounded faith in humans.

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#120840 Aug 26, 2014
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Or a Christian religious zealot who claims to have no religion, just a personal relationship with his magic sky daddy.
GUARDS! Take this one away!

Damn! You are such a halfwit!

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#120841 Aug 26, 2014
Cordwainer Trout wrote:
<quoted text>
It's God. Haven't you learned anything from watching Pat Robertson 24/7?
The energy you put into posting on boards of a hundred thousand plus with intricate argumentations you actually believe people read can only be explained by atheism... an unfounded faith in humans.
In 1938 the state of Wyoming produced enough dry edible beans to feed every man, woman, and child in the nation.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

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#120842 Aug 26, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>GUARDS! Take this one away!
Damn! You are such a halfwit!
Ha!! Nailed it! huh?
Cordwainer Trout

Elizabethtown, KY

#120843 Aug 26, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>In 1938 the state of Wyoming produced enough dry edible beans to feed every man, woman, and child in the nation.
And God in His infinite Wisdom introduced climate change and non-Democrat agricultural policies refusing to dump tons of sugar into the ocean and dye potatoes with poison so they couldn't be marketed.
TheMorningSunlig ht

Los Angeles, CA

#120844 Aug 26, 2014
Bad presentation of wit and comedy.../\
10:27 AM pst

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#120845 Aug 26, 2014
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Ha!! Nailed it! huh?
Yep, I think I was pretty much spot on.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

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#120846 Aug 26, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>Yep, I think I was pretty much spot on.
You are a legend in your own mind!

Since: Oct 08

Alpharetta, GA

#120847 Aug 26, 2014
I don't believe in reincarnation, but I did in a previous life.

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#120848 Aug 26, 2014
inbred Genius wrote:
I don't believe in reincarnation, but I did in a previous life.
It's bad luck to be superstitious.

“Happiness comes through giving”

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#120849 Aug 26, 2014
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a legend in your own mind!
True, I'm one of my most ardent admirers. In particular, I appreciate my modesty.

“I am evolving as fast as I can”

Since: Jan 08

Brooklyn, in Dayton OH now

#120850 Aug 26, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>This is getting a bit tiresome, but if you think I support Creationism you haven't been reading my comments on the subject. I am not religious.
Further, the self-satisfied notion that an "intelligent" trigger has been debunked is not evidence of an open mind. Like so many others, you speak with a sense of smug certainty about issues where there is as yet no basis for certainty.
Years of looking for an intelligent cause, 150+ years of whining about evolution not needing a deity's action ... it's not smugness, it's also not certainty. It's confidence that if what we have learned through scientific methodology is wrong, it's not some arm-chair Creationist who insists he's not a Creationist who is going to figure it out. It's going to be other scientists who will continue looking, searching, and explaining the world around us without needing to invoke the actions of a capricious deity.

So far, what has required a deity for an adequate and useful explanation? Nothing, has it? Be honest, if you can.

Oh yes, there are things we do not know and there are things we might never know with any degree of certainty. But a supernatural answer has yet to work for anything. You can keep calling yourself some other label besides a Creationist; however, you act like one, you post like one and you respond like one when challenged ... you might not be one, but a difference that makes no difference is no difference.

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