Evolution vs. Creation

There are 20 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#120458 Aug 19, 2014
replaytime wrote:
God is fake, religion is not important, God is a joke etc etc.
How many criminals/people in/was in prisons have changed their ways by finding evolution? That would be a big fat ZERO!
How many criminals/people in/was in prisons have changed their ways by finding God/religion? That would be many!!
You can't and won't find God unless you are looking for him,,,, Then you have to let him in.
I agree.

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#120459 Aug 19, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Life exists ERGO: it happened.
Life exists ergo,...God made it

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#120460 Aug 19, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
It is indeed beyond your understanding but due to ignorance and an astonishing lack of knowledge of even the most basics of biology and geology. I knew more when I was 12 years old.
You truly are an earth clod

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#120461 Aug 19, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
WOW! Bobby also needs lessons in English.
In case you didn't know: when we say in the English language that something took millions of years it means that it took millions of years and not that time caused it. You didn't know that?(NEVER overestimate creationists).
WHAT ELSE did Polymath say?
1) construction of the basic building blocks of life (success)
2) determining whether cell-like structures form naturally (they do and demonstrated)
3) determining whether basic reactions are catalysed by the chemicals produced from those basic building blocks (they are and demonstrated)
4) RNA leads to good reactions (demonstrated)
5) tremendous amount of success over the last 50 years in abiogenesis (INDEED!)
6) the instrumentation of abiogenesis is quite young (60 years ago we did not know the DNA code for amino acids and 50 years ago we did not know the basics of manipulation of DNA)
7) we understand a great many things we cannot do in the lab: fusion in stars, for example.
WHERE did you address this instead of your ridiculous word weasel about time?
Of course the usual straw man fallacies which never are missing in a creationist's post.
What did Polymath say: it took hundreds of million years for life to arise (you even used that in your f*cktard tattle about time). Hence no "waiting to self organize" and no "life goes shazzam". No "waiting" and no "shazzam" but a pathway of several 100's millions of years.
Let's evaluate the YEC creationist's position:
1. their was a god who created the universe and life in just 6 subsequent days - now isn't THAT "shazzam!"
2. god took .... uuhhhh ..... uuhhhhh ..... uuuuhhhhhhh .... yes he took WHAT to create the universe and life???? Now, isn't THAT "everything came from nothing".
Advise: try to back up your own position BEFORE criticizing the position of others about things that actually are endemic to your own.
The post of Polymath basically says the very same things I said in a few posts to you.
WHERE did you address THOSE?
You REALLY have nothing to contribute here.
You REALLY are grasping at the straws of world weasels, aren't you?
As usual you comically stupid morons brag about the progress in abiogenesis...
Your 1-7 equals what?
Failure!,...you believe it happened because that's what you WANT to believe.

I have never seen any other idea which has been so demonstrably a failure, yet is clung to with such faith , as abiogenesis.

You have a remarkable religious zeal

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#120462 Aug 19, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
Coppedge had a M.Sc. in chemistry, not in statistics. For the rest he was a theologian.
That's not relevant as such but as you were mentioning it. He has no understanding of biology. THAT you know form his probability calculations.
When you do probability calculation on a given process, you should represent that process correctly. When you want to calculate the odds of throwing a dice, you can't just insert the assertion it has 7 faces.
The whole of Coppedge's probability calculation is just PLAIN RUBBISH. Not for the probability calculus itself, I didn't even spend one glance on that, but for its assertions.
This is what Coppedge asserted:
- "the probability of a single protein molecule being arranged by chance in just one trial".
THAT indeed would yield very low odds. I even trust his calculus on that.
But life isn't about proteins being arranged in just one trial. It wasn't just "poof" and there we have the protein. As Polymath wrote: "several hundreds of million years" - you should have been warned by that. According to abiogenesis, proteins emerged out of very long lasting PATHWAYS in which they were formed building block by building block. Tiny step by tiny step.
The very next flaw in Coppedge's calculus is his assertion that protein building is a stochastic process with replacement. When you throw 6 dices to obtain a 6 X 6 eyes result and you start all over again with the 6 dices in every throw, the odds of a 6 X 6 result are 1/6 X 1/6 X 1/6 X 1/6 X 1/6 X 1/6 = 0.00214%. Very low indeed. You need a lot of throws to yield that result eventually.
But abiogenesis is NOT thought to be a stochastic process with replacement. Every time you get a protein building block that suits for further assembling, it will not be thrown away but retained. In our throwing dice experiment: when you have one dice with 6 eyes, it will be put apart and you continue with the remaining ones. That is called a stochastic process WITHOUT replacement. And THOSE processes have MUCH HIGHER odds. 1/6 X 1/6 X 1/6 X 1/6 X 1/6 X 1/6 = 0.134% to be precise. See the difference with 0.00214%?
The work of Coppedge is only worth to be discarded into the recycle bin. Maybe its paper will be recycled as toilet paper. Which is a much better application.
And of course the inevitable straw man fallacies, never missing in creationist's posts: "When the evolutionists began saying that life arose by chance". Well, THEY DIDN'T.
NEXT.
Wow! who to believe

Coppedge?

or an internet troll,...called the earth clod?.........

“ Knight Of Hyrule”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#120463 Aug 19, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Life exists ergo,...God made it
There is zero evidence to support that belief.
However there is much evidence to support the origin of life due to biopoesis.

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#120464 Aug 19, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Life is a bunch of chemical reactions. Life has a habit of self-organising due to chemistry. Happens all over the entire planet every single day.
If there's a mechanism for intelligence that we're missing then please tell us what that mechanism is and present evidence of it.
<quoted text>
Your claim MIGHT be fine.
So what you need to do now is point out WHY "complexity" is evidence of intelligence. You need to tell us how you're measuring complexity, what the demarcation line is between designed and non-designed, how you were able to determine that line in an objective manner via the scientific method, and what the mechanisms are that are responsible along with evidence of them.
Oh, and while you're at it you need to state exactly what the designer's limits are and how you were able to determine those limits by using the scientific method. For example, why is a deity that creates entire universes as a hobby incapable of designing a biological cell capable of evolution? Though I imagine you might have a little trouble with all this as so far none of you guys have ever been able to demonstrate that such a being even exists in the first place.
Best o' luck to ya.
Why complexity is evidence of intelligence?

what an amazingly stupid question

If the S.E.T.I. telescopes and listening devices were to pick up a morse code type signal from space it would be a confirmation that intelligent beings had sent it.
random signals are background noise, it takes intelligence to arrange the signals into information. Information also requires intelligence.

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#120465 Aug 19, 2014
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
As just explained, pure and utter baloney.
......as I said,...you dismiss the math

“Groooovin'”

Since: Feb 14

Location hidden

#120466 Aug 19, 2014
WHY???

Are ya All BOGGLING Your Brain. Farts .OVER This??

It's CUT And DRY..DUH??

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#120467 Aug 19, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
And problem is with these anti-abiogenesis assertions is that realistically speaking we don't have enough information about the specifics of the early environments that enabled abiogenesis to occur. So while the numbers the fundies give out may even add up, the numbers aren't valid because we don't know all the variables that were involved, much less know precise numbers that should be assigned TO those variables. Therefore a truly accurate calculation of the odds of abiogenesis can't really be done by anybody.
So, again for Bo's benefit, we'll point out what's happened and the possibilities of how it happened. The chances of life appearing on Earth are 100%. We know that because life is here. There's four potential possible ways for that to have happened:
1 - Natural development of life via already existing processes, the short version we call "abiogenesis".
2 - Goddidit with magic.
3 - Aliens.
4 - An unknown fourth option which nobody has considered since nobody's thought it up yet.
So far however there's only evidence of one of these. And that would be option 1, abiogenesis. For reasons explained to Bo and the rest of the fundies a multitude of times.
By the way, Bohart? The theory of evolution does not rely on abiogenesis.
1. the universe caused itself ,then caused life
2. God created the universe and all life
3. where did the alien life come from? this is a dodge
4.....nothing

There is zero evidence that that life created itself, all the scientific research , the real evidence not speculation, is against it. Its a faith driven concept,..oh look! sooner or later all these building blocks of life will assemble and then in an unknown process come alive!
That is totally a belief!

I am not going to change anyone's mind here, I know that, because,.....he who is convinced against his will is of the same opinion still....

What I want to point out is the idea of self assembling life has no scientific basis whatsoever .
As one scientist said who studied the problem,...there's not even a consensus on how to approach the problem
You can take all the building blocks of life available , put them together, change atmospheres, gases , add lightening, radiation , whatever else you can think of , what do you get ? nothing

Here is the problem you people have: there is no scientific explanation for the beginning of life

Also there is no scientific explanation for how the universe came into existence,

These two statements are facts,..and they are the causes of ridiculous theories that the universe had no cause or that life simply created itself.

They are the most illogical ideas ever proposed and masqueraded as science.

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#120468 Aug 19, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
There is zero evidence to support that belief.
However there is much evidence to support the origin of life due to biopoesis.
There is no evidence, it masquerades as evidence to prop up your beliefs

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#120469 Aug 19, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
As usual you comically stupid morons brag about the progress in abiogenesis...
Your 1-7 equals what?
Failure!,...you believe it happened because that's what you WANT to believe.
I have never seen any other idea which has been so demonstrably a failure, yet is clung to with such faith , as abiogenesis.
You have a remarkable religious zeal
I agree.

"‘Evolution is promoted by its practitioners as more than mere science. Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion—a full-fledged alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality. I am an ardent evolutionist and an ex-Christian, but I must admit that in this one complaint—and Mr [sic] Gish is but one of many to make it—the literalists are absolutely right. EVOLUTION IS A RELIGION." [Michael Ruse]

http://creation.com/michael-ruse-evolution-is...

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#120470 Aug 19, 2014
bohart wrote:

Life exists ergo,...God made it
Aura Mytha wrote:
There is zero evidence to support that belief.
However there is much evidence to support the origin of life due to biopoesis.
Biopoesis exists ergo... God made it

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#120471 Aug 19, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree.
"‘Evolution is promoted by its practitioners as more than mere science. Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion—a full-fledged alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality. I am an ardent evolutionist and an ex-Christian, but I must admit that in this one complaint—and Mr [sic] Gish is but one of many to make it—the literalists are absolutely right. EVOLUTION IS A RELIGION." [Michael Ruse]
http://creation.com/michael-ruse-evolution-is...
Agreed, and its strange that they can't even see it.

“ Knight Of Hyrule”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#120472 Aug 19, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Biopoesis exists ergo... God made it
That's such a hollow claim, while we can determine processes that brought life's origin, we finf no creator involved in the processes. You must first define the word Biopoesis.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/661...

biopoiesis, a process by which living organisms are thought to develop from nonliving matter, and the basis of a theory on the origin of life on Earth.

No mention of your belief involved, but you could be right, there maybe a invisible skydaddy out there creating things.
wondering

Sunset, TX

#120473 Aug 20, 2014
what do you religious people think about this video? or even you non-religious.

Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus
&sn s=fb

Since: Nov 07

St. James, NY

#120474 Aug 20, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree.
"‘Evolution is promoted by its practitioners as more than mere science. Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion—a full-fledged alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality. I am an ardent evolutionist and an ex-Christian, but I must admit that in this one complaint—and Mr [sic] Gish is but one of many to make it—the literalists are absolutely right. EVOLUTION IS A RELIGION." [Michael Ruse]
http://creation.com/michael-ruse-evolution-is...
"I think this paragraph, the introduction to a book review (for which I was never paid) in a Canadian newspaper some 10 or so years ago, has received more attention and more repetition (especially on the Internet) than anything else I have ever written. More even than my claim that morality is an illusion put in place by the genes to make us social animals. No matter that I qualified it then and have qualified it before and ever since. "Ruse recants! Evolution is a religion! Read all about it!" Or more accurately, don't read all about it, because then you might find that that is not quite all that I had to say." [Michael Ruse]
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#120475 Aug 20, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree.
"‘Evolution is promoted by its practitioners as more than mere science. Evolution is promulgated as an ideology, a secular religion—a full-fledged alternative to Christianity, with meaning and morality. I am an ardent evolutionist and an ex-Christian, but I must admit that in this one complaint—and Mr [sic] Gish is but one of many to make it—the literalists are absolutely right. EVOLUTION IS A RELIGION." [Michael Ruse]
http://creation.com/michael-ruse-evolution-is...
Yeah, but Mike Ruse is a reality denying fruitcake.(shrug)

YECers? Really? Get a grip, porky.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#120476 Aug 20, 2014
replaytime wrote:
God is fake, religion is not important, God is a joke etc etc.
How many criminals/people in/was in prisons have changed their ways by finding evolution? That would be a big fat ZERO!
How many criminals/people in/was in prisons have changed their ways by finding God/religion? That would be many!!
You can't and won't find God unless you are looking for him,,,, Then you have to let him in.
Seem s like God found them just a tad too late then huh?

By the way, why the heck would evolution have any responsibility to stop people from robbing banks? That's like saying gravity is a load of crud because it didn't stop some bad guys from kicking the heck out of old ladies.

Doofus.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#120477 Aug 20, 2014
messianic114 wrote:
.
Does life need to be extinct for a new life to come into existence?
As usual you didn't get what I said because you can't even tell when I'm taking the pish outta you.
messianic114 wrote:
How do you know there weren't multiple cells being formed nearly simultaneously in different parts of the Earth?
We don't for sure. But since we both agree that the chances are slim for it to happen once there's no reason to expect it to have occurred anywhere else. Other possibilities are that maybe it did and the larger, more successful bio-population wiped it out, or that populations from other abiogenesis events simply went extinct.

However the theory of evolution (still) doesn't rely on abiogenesis.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Weird Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
GMGMike's Bar And Grill (Jan '10) 6 min liam cul8r 20,408
Add a Word remove a Word (Oct '13) 6 min Whiny1 1,593
News Study: Beards are filled with poop and 'as dirt... 7 min Baptistism by Proxy 12
*add A word / drop a word* (Nov '12) 8 min Whiny1 9,792
News Cop Sues Starbucks After Burns From Spilling Fr... 9 min Dr Wu 3
***Keep a Word~Drop a Word*** (Jan '10) 9 min Whiny1 79,004
Let's Play Song Titles With One Word? 10 min CJ Rocker 902
El's Kitchen (Feb '09) 13 min AfricanBlackShadow 40,300
Word Association 2 (Sep '13) 15 min Jennifer Renee 10,949
What song are you listening to right now? (Apr '08) 32 min wichita-rick 161,871
2015: "Make a Story/ 6 Words Only: 4 hr Mechanic 218
More from around the web