Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 221438 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

KeepCalmNcarryON

Los Angeles, CA

#120306 Aug 17, 2014
wondering wrote:

<quoted text>
i do not think there is or was an intention. which is why I say it was uncaused.
you said "getting mixed in the right way" and now you add "mixed in the right proportions."
lets run this down you say;
1) the right conditions
2) the right conditions causing the right causes(gravity, lightning, etc.)
3) the chemicals getting mixed in the right way
4) the chemicals getting mixed in the right proportions
5) what would you say the odds of each happening just right would be?
6) science has intentionally tried to create life from chemicals and so far has failed
you almost seem to straddle the line of spontaneous vs naturally intentional..

this../\ is the Inquisition. That's why wondering would be accosted in public as it was his response to an honest effort - Typical abuse tactic.

Here's the deal. The universe does more tricks than man knows about.
It has a consciousness, It has mathematical precision. it has scalar geometry, it has life, it has the ability to conceive of itself. It has the ability to prove this by the fact that at least one spot in it has the right conditions for living organisms to exist, look at it and ask how and why.
It's OK if the theory of evolution is proven and God talks to you when you're not reading a Scientific American Mag.
If God or any other voice, influence, dead relative, living person, religion or organization convinces you that you:
Should not learn
Should not investigate
Should not concur with others
Should not respect others
Should not seek to find common grounds in a dispute or debate
Should not seek assistance from others,
THEN
IT is HARMFUL, IT is FRAUD and probably will lead a person to antisocial and self-destructive behavior.
Jack Wagon hasn't been used in a few days, but the inquisition has continued unabated.

The real GOD was NEVER what you thought it was. That's why you're still having this tragically PRIMITIVE debate about something that should have been fully documented and PROVEN decades ago.
(The ToE)
Man has wasted his time and talents on the "god of Israel".
Whatever THAT was, it wun't no GOD!
Ya wanna know what that really was? Noooo, you don't -
(JUST!.......leave it.)

Just be patient and diligent. The answers will come along with a lot more questions and a lot more unexplained occurrences.
Think of it this way:
Science is the anxious seeker.
God is the patient detective.
Simple geometry and electrical charges between atoms.
Complex scalar geometry and higher dimensions.
The limitless energy driving it all at any given time.
How much energy is expended to drive the atoms in one of my keys for I minute? To hold those atoms together AND supply their energy for another minute? Some limitless energy exists or there would be no atoms as I understand it so far,(?) or they could not exist for long.
IT takes energy to run a single atom. WHERE IS THAT ENERGY
COMING FROM? Quantum fluctuations are energy, Where is it coming from? Many of the atoms we (don't) see in everyday materials have existed for BILLIONS of years. What supplies enough energy to hold all the atoms in the observable universe together and drives their spin and electrical charges, FOR BILLIONS OF YEARS? Gotta come from somewhere. Limitless energy has the option to be creative.
FREE SERVANT

United States

#120307 Aug 17, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
We don't have all the answers in the bible.
There are almost no answers in the bible.
There are no hydrogen bonds and organic molecules like DNA and proteins found in the bible.
We REALLY started to understand hydrogen bonds, organic molecules, DNA and proteins when we ceased to stick our heads into the bronze age mythology books and started to LOOK AROUND and OBSERVE what REALLY happens. ONLY THEN science merged and we REALLY got a mental grip on what happens around us.
It was the transition from believing that disease is the wrath of god to studying its causes through the microscope - and this marked our ability to fight disease.
It was also the transition from believing that the earth stands still and the whole of the universe orbiting it to the reality of heliocentrism.
I said the answers are in the Bible. I did not say we have been given all the details. Today we can reason these things out with modern means. Interpretation was limited in the past as far as the science was concerned, but confirmation is slowly coming that the Bible is true.The mentioning of circuits and patterns is of pertinence.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#120308 Aug 17, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
Demonstrate or give evidence for that claim.
Scientifically, just how many times have you gotten chemicals "mixed in the right way" such that life results?
Are you able to create a living organism in a lab by having chemicals "mixed in the right way"?
1. the young oceans certainly at some spots had thousands of organic compounds mixed up and driven by solar or geothermal energy, implying that every single second, tons of biochemicals were constantly reacting. And the compounds this yielded, were also constantly reacting with other compounds. As observed in underwater fumaroles for instance, where a constant inorganically and organically chemical process is going on. Tons maybe millions of tons of biochemical material, constantly reacting, processing and compounding, accumulating to an ever growing biochemical mass, extending over hundreds of millions of years.

If you count every reaction of any given mix of chemicals to be one trial, there were quadrillions times quintillions times septillions trials. Does this satisfy your requirements?

2. we don't need to recreate a living organism in a lab by having chemicals. Because we neither need to recreate atoms to understand atom theory. Neither do we need to rebuild complete stars to understand the basic processes in stars. We neither need to recreate the human body to understand how it works and to apply this validly in medicine.
Abiogenesis does not even try to recreate life in a test tube. It tries to reconstruct the pathway form abiotic conditions through biochemical processes to the first life. And it is VERY PROMISING and much more advanced than you probably would fancy: www.mcb.ucdavis.edu/faculty-labs/scholey/jour...
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#120309 Aug 17, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>I said the answers are in the Bible. I did not say we have been given all the details. Today we can reason these things out with modern means. Interpretation was limited in the past as far as the science was concerned, but confirmation is slowly coming that the Bible is true.The mentioning of circuits and patterns is of pertinence.
to understand the universe and life, I don't see much clues in it and much misinformation.
KeepCalmNcarryON

Los Angeles, CA

#120310 Aug 17, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
1. the young oceans certainly at some spots had thousands of organic compounds mixed up and driven by solar or geothermal energy, implying that every single second, tons of biochemicals were constantly reacting. And the compounds this yielded, were also constantly reacting with other compounds. As observed in underwater fumaroles for instance, where a constant inorganically and organically chemical process is going on. Tons maybe millions of tons of biochemical material, constantly reacting, processing and compounding, accumulating to an ever growing biochemical mass, extending over hundreds of millions of years.
If you count every reaction of any given mix of chemicals to be one trial, there were quadrillions times quintillions times septillions trials. Does this satisfy your requirements?
2. we don't need to recreate a living organism in a lab by having chemicals. Because we neither need to recreate atoms to understand atom theory. Neither do we need to rebuild complete stars to understand the basic processes in stars. We neither need to recreate the human body to understand how it works and to apply this validly in medicine.
Abiogenesis does not even try to recreate life in a test tube. It tries to reconstruct the pathway form abiotic conditions through biochemical processes to the first life. And it is VERY PROMISING and much more advanced than you probably would fancy: www.mcb.ucdavis.edu/faculty-labs/scholey/jour...
Awesome article! As for No.2. They ARE going to re-create artificial reproducing life forms.
Look at all the pretty geometric shapes in the RNA molecule.
Life just itchin' to form out of electrically charged atoms and geometric shapes just almost pulling to close the spaces between them, yet standing at tension to constantly force those shapes into continuance and into evermore complex shapes to give rise to every living and non-living chemical process, cycle, rhythm and form in the observable universe.
It's all just so elegant. So suspiciously elegant I will brazenly profess my support of the idea that there's no reason why all this can't be ALIVE or conscious somehow in a sense humans are unable to express in a consistent way. Don't worry about it, it's the intent that counts.
There is a curious lack of orderly geometry associated with human hate, anger and violence.
Animal violence and predation actually follows natural scalar geometry as does biological evolution.
lucy

Trexlertown, PA

#120311 Aug 17, 2014
KeepCalmNcarryON wrote:
<quoted text>
Awesome article! As for No.2. They ARE going to re-create artificial reproducing life forms.
Look at all the pretty geometric shapes in the RNA molecule.
Life just itchin' to form out of electrically charged atoms and geometric shapes just almost pulling to close the spaces between them, yet standing at tension to constantly force those shapes into continuance and into evermore complex shapes to give rise to every living and non-living chemical process, cycle, rhythm and form in the observable universe.
It's all just so elegant. So suspiciously elegant I will brazenly profess my support of the idea that there's no reason why all this can't be ALIVE or conscious somehow in a sense humans are unable to express in a consistent way. Don't worry about it, it's the intent that counts.
There is a curious lack of orderly geometry associated with human hate, anger and violence.
Animal violence and predation actually follows natural scalar geometry as does biological evolution.
Take another hit why don't ya.
KeepCalmNcarryON

Los Angeles, CA

#120312 Aug 17, 2014
lucy wrote:
<quoted text>
Take another hit why don't ya.
Since you appeared on this thread you've done nothing but be a lousy comic and an outright TROLL!
YOUR behavior is
TROLL behavior.
Wize UP! or
GTFOut!
wondering

Morris, OK

#120313 Aug 18, 2014
polymath257 wrote:
on a different note. I think you will like this. pretty cool.

Crazy Circle Illusion!

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#120314 Aug 18, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you know that life originated on earth and not anywhere else?
I am not even sure that you originated on earth.

Hey I was reading some of your old posts under the various names you have used on here in the past. A rose by any other name is just as nuts.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#120315 Aug 18, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
Demonstrate or give evidence for that claim.
Scientifically, just how many times have you gotten chemicals "mixed in the right way" such that life results?
Are you able to create a living organism in a lab by having chemicals "mixed in the right way"?
Meth is a hell of a drug isn't it. I believe you have had severe issues with getting chemicals mixed in the right way.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#120316 Aug 18, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually no, i dont.
Will you tell me?
Really, would it do any good. No.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#120317 Aug 18, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no need to distinguish between what and why....
Because the most accurate and honest answer to the question of "why" is a description of what happened and/or what was involved...
The cause is the reason and the reason is the cause.
Blattey blah, blattey blah, bladity blah.

Hog is the Hog and the Hog of the Hog. Makes about as much sense as anything you post.

That'll do pig.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#120318 Aug 18, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>We have the answers in the Bible. In the very beginning the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the water. Water and how it is created by hydrogen bonds is an attraction that is a process just as to that in organic molecules like DNA and protein. This is the basics.
I really hold out hope that one day you will find a clue.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#120319 Aug 18, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>We have the answers in the Bible. In the very beginning the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the water. Water and how it is created by hydrogen bonds is an attraction that is a process just as to that in organic molecules like DNA and protein. This is the basics.
What exactly is a hydrogen bond and what is the significance of it with regards to water?

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#120320 Aug 18, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>I said the answers are in the Bible. I did not say we have been given all the details. Today we can reason these things out with modern means. Interpretation was limited in the past as far as the science was concerned, but confirmation is slowly coming that the Bible is true.The mentioning of circuits and patterns is of pertinence.
What confirmation exactly? Do you mean the obvious evidence that Genesis was cobbled together from multiple previous sources? That confirmation? Or that pi is equal to 3. That confirmation? Or that the Bible considers that the earth is flat and the universe orbits around it? That confirmation? How about this circuits, cycles, patterns and scams nonsense that you are always going on about? That confirmation?
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#120321 Aug 18, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>I am not even sure that you originated on earth.
Hey I was reading some of your old posts under the various names you have used on here in the past. A rose by any other name is just as nuts.
Technical question: how can you look back into the posting history, I tried the search function of Topix but it's not much that name worth.

Thanx!

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#120322 Aug 18, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>Why can you not accept that all life was created by God?
Because there is absolutely no evidence of such a being. Nor is there any evidence that such a creation by any being is possible.
The evidence is clear that life today is just a reproduction.
Close, but not quite. Life is partially reproduction. it is not *a* reproduction.
Actually the thing that brings about life as it is today in its basic element is an acid. There are specific processes that comprise life through certain acids and sequences correspond to reproduction and are units of inheritance. These acids are set into spiral systems which control pattern formation and they themselves are stretches of patterns that code in all living things. Orderly formation and orderly outcomes of self-organization are cyclical regularities from which agreement in dimensions are beautiful.and harmonious with proportion and balance. This kind of order did not create itself, it is an intelligent set up. This is not just random chemical reactions.
Nobody said it was *random* chemical reactions. The laws of chemistry are not random! The interaction of DNA with RNA and then of RNA with amino acids is not random. Each and every reaction follows the same laws of chemistry as everything else in the universe.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#120323 Aug 18, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
You know in the field of medicine there is a saying that goes like this:
"The more remedies there are for an illness, the less likely it is that any one of them works".
And the logic profound...
If there was a single accurate, reliable method; there would not be so many methods.
You wouldn't use the same medical techniques to treat a small scratch and a penetrating cut. Neither would you use the same dating techniques for something organic and 20,000 years old and something else that is igneous and 300 million years old. The difference in scale means they are different illnesses.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#120324 Aug 18, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you know that life originated on earth and not anywhere else?
No, we do not.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#120325 Aug 18, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
Demonstrate or give evidence for that claim.
Scientifically, just how many times have you gotten chemicals "mixed in the right way" such that life results?
Are you able to create a living organism in a lab by having chemicals "mixed in the right way"?
No, we have not figured out how to organize the chemicals in the right way.

But, we *are* collections of chemicals mixed in the right way. We are, as is all life, a complex collection of chemical reactions.

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