Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 221272 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Tampa, FL

#119341 Aug 1, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
Which, BTW, is a loan word out of French.
The habit to eat pommes frites with mayonnaise comes from Belgium, who are the real pommes frites people, especially the Flemish part. They call it "frieten" (=plural, singular "friet") or "patat". Traditionally they are served in cones: https://www.google.nl/search... .
Famous also are the "frietkotten" ("kot" = "sty, cot, slum"). They look like this:
https://www.google.nl/search...
and are to be found everywhere in Belgium, Holland and parts of Germany.
Mjam scrunch, gnap!
(but they are bad if you are on a diet - or want to prevent to go on a diet).
Correct, it is French. If German it would be something like kartoffel gebraten.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#119342 Aug 1, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
absolute crap!
Show me the truth that requires no evidence.
To compile and correlate real world evidence and data is like building a brick house; any brick will fit anywhere.
That you choose to place one brick there instead of here is just a reflection of your personal disposition.
And just which "religious truth" are you claiming are unfalsifiable?
If you dont even know what the truths imply; how can you know whether they are falsifiable or not?
You disputing religion (Christianity in particular) is like a 5 year old tossing away a math text book and saying; "I dont see any numbers in the natural world, so arithmetic are mere mythology and imagination."
Your analogies fail on many levels, as would your brick house. Scientific method is not aesthetic or subjective. Fundamentalists are the children who contest the acquired knowledge of the natural world and its laws in favor of imagination and mythology.

Can you falsify the magic of the book of Genesis? No. Is there any evidence of human souls, heaven, lake of fire, et al? No. Is there any evidence of salvation, the resurrection, divine inspiration of the writings of scripture, etc? No. Can you >honestly< point to any part of Revelation and claim, "This is fact and not interpretation."? No.
All you've got is a book and mysticism.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#119343 Aug 1, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
Where did I make such a claim?
Did I claim that interpretation based on zero evidence "is the one"; or did I suggest that evidence is not sufficient to justify a conclusion?
How are you different from any other dunce who just gravitates to whatever he wants to hear?
Claiming to be the one that knows?
Clearly your expressions represent images that have meaning in your mind only.
What a delusional misfit you are.

I am different than you. I gravitated to what gave the best explanation.

You on the other hand continue to live on the results of your own emotional and psychological pathology.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#119344 Aug 1, 2014
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Correct, it is French. If German it would be something like kartoffel gebraten.
Frittierten Kartoffeln! ;-)

Schmeckt auch ja ganz gut!

Level 2

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#119345 Aug 2, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
Some people compile and correlate real world evidence and data and form theories to describe and better understand reality. If the theories do not hold up to the evidence and data, They are corrected or discarded. Others proudly prefer unfalsifiable religious "Truths" that require no evidence or data and are emotionally comforted by faith in dogma and doctrine.
What's yer point?
If homo sapiens have been around for 200,000 years, why did it take them 195,000 years to write anything down and invent the wheel? Homo Sapiens went around for 195,000 years without the wheel? Underachievers? Too busy?

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#119346 Aug 2, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> If homo sapiens have been around for 200,000 years, why did it take them 195,000 years to write anything down and invent the wheel? Homo Sapiens went around for 195,000 years without the wheel? Underachievers? Too busy?
That's only a guess, but it's may have been around a little longer.
You see monumental construction projects must have the wheel, but for the pre-civilization society, the use and domestication of work animals sufficed the construction between hunter gatherers and true city states. You have to realize that before the advent of farming and before the transition from hunter and hunter gatherers , all time was spent finding a securing the meals to feed the people. Once this was established and societies began to form, some men had more time to think of other ways to improve their lives, and life became less brutal.

This has continued on to this day, but the human nature in us still there. While our lives are less brutal , our animalistic nature can be very brutal. Hence we still have the need to hint and war, conquest and in fact revel in it.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#119347 Aug 2, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> If homo sapiens have been around for 200,000 years, why did it take them 195,000 years to write anything down and invent the wheel? Homo Sapiens went around for 195,000 years without the wheel? Underachievers? Too busy?
There are megalithic structures that are far older than 5,000 years, and 200,000 is the high estimate for homo sapiens. Our oldest surviving manuscripts are from the Sumerians, but it doesn't >at all< follow that language and civilization must have begun with Adam's first breath 6,000 years ago. When you blithely mention inventing the wheel you can't refer to just slapping a disk on a stick. You are talking about a complex machine versus a simple machine - and one that you take for granted because you've seen them everywhere since you first opened your eyes.
Why don't you tell me about the underachievers - why is it that people still cling to "facts" from 3500 years ago that have been known to be erroneous almost even as they were written?

Level 2

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#119348 Aug 2, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
There are megalithic structures that are far older than 5,000 years, and 200,000 is the high estimate for homo sapiens. Our oldest surviving manuscripts are from the Sumerians, but it doesn't >at all< follow that language and civilization must have begun with Adam's first breath 6,000 years ago.
We don't kn ow if it is 6000 years and do you have any ancient historical precedent for any of your speculations?
When you blithely mention inventing the wheel you can't refer to just slapping a disk on a stick. You are talking about a complex machine versus a simple machine - and one that you take for granted because you've seen them everywhere since you first opened your eyes.
Yeah, wheels are complicated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel
Why don't you tell me about the underachievers - why is it that people still cling to "facts" from 3500 years ago that have been known to be erroneous almost even as they were written?
LOL. Yeah they knowingly wrote errors. You know that how? 200,000 is a high estimate? Not an exact science. They can assign any date to better conform to their assumptions. They did write parables. Trees talking to each other and everybody knows they were parables just like everyone today can make a distinction between the funny pages and the hard news. You guys would trash the ancients as a bunch of know nothings who could not make distinctions between fact and fiction.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#119349 Aug 2, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> We don't kn ow if it is 6000 years and do you have any ancient historical precedent for any of your speculations? <quoted text> Yeah, wheels are complicated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel
<quoted text> LOL. Yeah they knowingly wrote errors. You know that how? 200,000 is a high estimate? Not an exact science. They can assign any date to better conform to their assumptions. They did write parables. Trees talking to each other and everybody knows they were parables just like everyone today can make a distinction between the funny pages and the hard news. You guys would trash the ancients as a bunch of know nothings who could not make distinctions between fact and fiction.
WE know damned well "it" wasn't 6,000 years ago. "It" never was.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#119350 Aug 2, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> We don't kn ow if it is 6000 years and do you have any ancient historical precedent for any of your speculations? <quoted text> Yeah, wheels are complicated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel
<quoted text> LOL. Yeah they knowingly wrote errors. You know that how? 200,000 is a high estimate? Not an exact science. They can assign any date to better conform to their assumptions. They did write parables. Trees talking to each other and everybody knows they were parables just like everyone today can make a distinction between the funny pages and the hard news. You guys would trash the ancients as a bunch of know nothings who could not make distinctions between fact and fiction.
So you don't have any answers. You could just say so.

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#119351 Aug 2, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> We don't kn ow if it is 6000 years and do you have any ancient historical precedent for any of your speculations? <quoted text> Yeah, wheels are complicated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel
<quoted text> LOL. Yeah they knowingly wrote errors. You know that how? 200,000 is a high estimate? Not an exact science. They can assign any date to better conform to their assumptions. They did write parables. Trees talking to each other and everybody knows they were parables just like everyone today can make a distinction between the funny pages and the hard news. You guys would trash the ancients as a bunch of know nothings who could not make distinctions between fact and fiction.
The bones of anatomically correct humans have been dated to 195,000 years old.
That's where it comes from beamer.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#119353 Aug 2, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> If homo sapiens have been around for 200,000 years, why did it take them 195,000 years to write anything down and invent the wheel? Homo Sapiens went around for 195,000 years without the wheel? Underachievers? Too busy?
Well at last a INTERESTING question instead of the creationist's drivel and tattle.

Worth while answering.
Dogen, Dan, MM, Dude, Polymath, Aura: let's go into this, that would make Topix a bit more substantial and interesting.

First, let's get the time frame correct:
- the 200,000 years are the very max of humans
- humans inherited technology from their ancestors, like homo Erectus and homo Habilis. the first real technology dates back 2.6 million years and is called Oldowan technology. "Technology" means the deliberate, artificial manufacturing of tools like hand axes, scrapers etc. The inventor of Oldowan technology was homo Habilis and inherited by its descendant species homo Erectus. Homo Habilis lived ~2.33 to 1.44 million years ago. It also used fire
- 1.6 million years ago it was succeeded by Acheulean technology. The first "technological revolution". Its inventor was homo Erectus, who lived between 1.9 million and 143,000 years ago - if the recent finds of homo Floriensis was a subspecies of Erectus, even until 12,000 years ago. Homo Erectus was the first Hominid species to migrate out of Africa. It used fire and there is strong anatomically evidence that it had primitive speech.
- homo Heidelbergensis made the next technological jump forward. It invented the first pointed stone artefacts (dated 280,000 years ago) and spears. We inherited this technology from them. They also were the first species to bury their death. Anatomically evidence revealed that they used speech. Homo H. lived 600,000 - 250,000/200,000 years ago.

From 200,000 years ago we enter the human era. But already in place were:
- the use of fire
- the use of language
- the use of stone age technology
- first signs of religion (burial of the death).

Now, what we've got more?
- the first dwelling huts are dates 100,000 years ago in South Africa
- the first art (African rock art made from red ochre) dates back 100,000 B.C. and was found in Blombos cave in South Africa
- use of bone fipple flute (recorder) by Neanderthals 40,000 years ago
- earliest cave paintings of Cro-magnons (Chauvet caves at Vallon-Pont-d'Arc, France): 32,400 years ago
- 14,000 years ago the first domestication of the dog (China)
- the domestication of farm animals dates back 13,000 years
- the oldest human stone built structure (until now) is Göbekli Tepe in Turkey. It dates back 12,000 years ago. Most likely it was a sanctuary
- cultivation of figs started in Jordan Valley 11,500 years ago
- squash was grown in Mexico nearly 10,000 years ago
- the first writing (the Dispilio tablet of Greece and T&#259;rt&#259;ria tablets of Romania) date back 10,000 years ago.
- first town: Jericho, Palestine, walled city with an estimated population of 2500 dates back 9,500 years ago
- cultivation of wheat and barley began 9,000 years ago in Syria
- the domestication of horses (Ukraine) dates back 6,400 years ago
- only then we arrive at the thing you mentioned, the invention of the wheel in Mesopotamia 5,500 years ago.

I think the advancing of HOMINID (not solely human) technology and proficiency runs like asymptote: it start slowly with a very low rate of improvement and innovations but in the course of time the pace is picking up.

The reasons for the low innovation rate are:
- for a long time humans were hunter-gatherers. They lived in rather small family-bond groups that basically were nomadic
- when you are nomadic, ideas spread very slowly and are tend to kept into the own small tribe. when the group perishes, the eventually new ideas went stray with them
- when you live in a small group, there are not many people to share ideas with
- small groups tend to be ruled in strict ways, demanded by harsh survival needs.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#119354 Aug 2, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> If homo sapiens have been around for 200,000 years, why did it take them 195,000 years to write anything down and invent the wheel? Underachievers? Too busy?
Well at last a INTERESTING question instead of the creationist's drivel and tattle.
Worth while answering.
Dogen, Dan, MM, Dude, Polymath, Aura: let's go into this, that would make Topix a bit more substantial and interesting.
First, let's get the time frame correct:
- the 200,000 years are the very max of humans
- humans inherited technology from their ancestors, like homo Erectus and homo Habilis. the first real technology dates back 2.6 million years and is called Oldowan technology. "Technology" means the deliberate, artificial manufacturing of tools like hand axes, scrapers etc. The inventor of Oldowan technology was homo Habilis and inherited by its descendant species homo Erectus. Homo Habilis lived ~2.33 to 1.44 million years ago. It also used fire
- 1.6 million years ago it was succeeded by Acheulean technology. The first "technological revolution". Its inventor was homo Erectus, who lived between 1.9 million and 143,000 years ago - if the recent finds of homo Floriensis was a subspecies of Erectus, even until 12,000 years ago. Homo Erectus was the first Hominid species to migrate out of Africa. It used fire and there is strong anatomically evidence that it had primitive speech.
- homo Heidelbergensis made the next technological jump forward. It invented the first pointed stone artefacts (dated 280,000 years ago) and spears. We inherited this technology from them. They also were the first species to bury their death. Anatomically evidence revealed that they used speech. Homo H. lived 600,000 - 250,000/200,000 years ago.
From 200,000 years ago we enter the human era. But already in place were:
- the use of fire
- the use of language
- the use of stone age technology
- first signs of religion (burial of the death).
Now, what we've got more?
- the first dwelling huts are dates 100,000 years ago in South Africa
- the first art (African rock art made from red ochre) dates back 100,000 B.C. and was found in Blombos cave in South Africa
- use of bone fipple flute (recorder) by Neanderthals 40,000 years ago
- earliest cave paintings of Cro-magnons (Chauvet caves at Vallon-Pont-d'Arc, France): 32,400 years ago
- 14,000 years ago the first domestication of the dog (China)
- the domestication of farm animals dates back 13,000 years
- the oldest human stone built structure (until now) is Göbekli Tepe in Turkey. It dates back 12,000 years ago. Most likely it was a sanctuary
- cultivation of figs started in Jordan Valley 11,500 years ago
- squash was grown in Mexico nearly 10,000 years ago
- the first writing (the Dispilio tablet of Greece and T&#259;rt&#259;ria tablets of Romania) date back 10,000 years ago.
- first town: Jericho, Palestine, walled city with an estimated population of 2500 dates back 9,500 years ago
- cultivation of wheat and barley began 9,000 years ago in Syria
- the domestication of horses (Ukraine) dates back 6,400 years ago
- only then we arrive at the thing you mentioned, the invention of the wheel in Mesopotamia 5,500 years ago.
I think the advancing of HOMINID (not solely human) technology and proficiency runs like asymptote: it start slowly with a very low rate of improvement and innovations but in the course of time the pace is picking up.
The reasons for the initially low innovation rate are:
- for a long time humans were hunter-gatherers. They lived in rather small family-bond groups that basically were nomadic
- when you are nomadic, ideas spread very slowly and are tend to kept into the own small tribe. when the group perishes, the eventually new ideas went stray with them
- when you live in a small group, there are not many people to share ideas with
- small groups tend to be ruled in strict ways, demanded by harsh survival needs.

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#119355 Aug 2, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
Well at last a INTERESTING question instead of the creationist's drivel and tattle.
Worth while answering.
Dogen, Dan, MM, Dude, Polymath, Aura: let's go into this, that would make Topix a bit more substantial and interesting.
First, let's get the time frame correct:
- the 200,000 years are the very max of humans
- humans inherited technology from their ancestors, like homo Erectus and homo Habilis. <cyr>
Excellent very comprehensive and enlightening, I have but a single protest to all you have written here. It's a very simple one, in the realization that humanity...AKA: humans began with the advent of if the homo line, which means all those who were of the homo which includes hablis and erectus...were, humans. Just primitive ones.:)
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#119356 Aug 2, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Excellent very comprehensive and enlightening, I have but a single protest to all you have written here. It's a very simple one, in the realization that humanity...AKA: humans began with the advent of if the homo line, which means all those who were of the homo which includes hablis and erectus...were, humans. Just primitive ones.:)
What's exactly your objection?
Can't make it up out of your post unambiguously.

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#119357 Aug 2, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
What's exactly your objection?
Can't make it up out of your post unambiguously.
"- humans inherited technology from their ancestors, like homo Erectus and homo Habilis"

Erectus and Habilis...were humans too, just primitive humans.

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#119358 Aug 2, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
A third year kindergarten student argues better than you ever could.
That's all it takes to best you faith driven nihilists

Level 2

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#119359 Aug 2, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Hardly. I have a habit of pointing out flaws in people's posts, then they in turn do NOT address them. Then they insult me. Then I insult them back. And round and round it goes.
But the fact remains that Bo's issue with me is that he's never been able to back up his claims against me once.
But then we already know this, otherwise you would have pointed to the post I asked you to.
You may now return to your baseless philosophical babbling and pretending to know universal truthiness or something.
Ahh, the misanthropic Dud!....

Dear Dud, as I've said before, either a creator created the heavens and the earth and all life or it all created itself. Now pool your intelligence with some other room temp I.Q.'s and listen carefully, they both are beliefs! Now what you and the other believers in the life giving goo attempt to do constantly is cloak your belief in pseudo scientific jargon that is devoid of evidence, and all the while damning those who believe otherwise. You and your ilk are no better than a sunni attacking a shitte.

The conclusion is this,..it is impossible for me to convince you against what you choose to believe in!

Now respond with your believer defense mechanisms....

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#119360 Aug 2, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Ahh, the misanthropic Dud!....
Dear Dud, as I've said before, either a creator created the heavens and the earth and all life or it all created itself. Now pool your intelligence with some other room temp I.Q.'s and listen carefully, they both are beliefs! Now what you and the other believers in the life giving goo attempt to do constantly is cloak your belief in pseudo scientific jargon that is devoid of evidence, and all the while damning those who believe otherwise. You and your ilk are no better than a sunni attacking a shitte.
The conclusion is this,..it is impossible for me to convince you against what you choose to believe in!
Now respond with your believer defense mechanisms....
Uniformitarianism is not a controversial assumption when compared to magic.
Bill

Owensboro, KY

#119361 Aug 2, 2014
Lower Testosterone Levels In Early Humans Led To Modern Civilized Human Societies

http://www.designntrend.com/articles/17553/20...

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