Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 201841 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#118608 Jul 18, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
You think.
But you know where I'm heading... Straight to infinite regress.
Does the concept of infinite regress indeed suggest that the existence of Creator as we know it is improbable?
Because the fact is that infinite regress applies to any subject for which "why" or "how" is asked.
And you know that.
I can tell by your dodge-ball maneuver.
Are you ever going to stop fencing and show us what you keep claiming?
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#118609 Jul 18, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
You think.
But you know where I'm heading... Straight to infinite regress.
Does the concept of infinite regress indeed suggest that the existence of Creator as we know it is improbable?
Because the fact is that infinite regress applies to any subject for which "why" or "how" is asked.
And you know that.
I can tell by your dodge-ball maneuver.
Yes, I know.
We've been through that before in this thread.

Let's take a shortcut:
"Does the concept of infinite regress indeed suggest that the existence of Creator as we know it is improbable?"

YOU tell, a creator existing is YOUR claim.

See?
Your "infinite regress" only hides your bad reasoning capacities: it inevitably leads - again - to shifting the burden of proof.

Dodge-ball?
I have A BUNCH of questions left unanswered by you.
For instance, the post I will produce next after this one.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#118610 Jul 18, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
Who decided that you are wrong?
How will you know that the representation you have is correct?
How can you form a representation without evidence/experience?
I am sorry but ANSWER the questions and don't DODGE them by reposting my own questions.

And ESPECIALLY not by obvious smokescreens, like "Who decided that you are wrong?"
Your post ##118513, I quote “And we all agree that there is no invisible jewish wizard outside of your fantasies”.

Hence, AGAIN:

Actually I agree on Dude's representation of "god": he never shows up ("invisible"), it is a Jewish deity of origin ("Jewish") and he performs all kinds of wonders that under the regime of normal natural laws can't and won't happen ("wizard").
Hence, the correct questions here are:
1) why are we wrong then on this representation?
2) where can we find the correct representation?
3) why is that representation correct? How may we trust on that?
4) consequently, what is the evidence for the god according to that representation?

Actually, Dude DID describe the nature of the God for which there is no evidence, "invisible Jewish wizard". Hence I do not even know why you posed that request.

AND NOW YOUR ANSWERS PLEASE.
Drgunzet

Meridian, ID

#118611 Jul 18, 2014
Hey folks, I am a man of science. I already read a couple thousand books and tens of thousands articles. Genetics and evolution are my great interests and I was suspecting some kind of "Intelligence Design" was in place. I once told this very beautiful and hot eye doctor, "Homo Sapiens walked on earth 100,000 years ago. Assume 20 years between one generation, I do not believe after 5,000 generations/iteration a hairy primitive ape can evolve into a perfection like you."

I added, "You are beautiful and intelligent. There has to be an Intelligence Design at play." The good doc surrendered to me.

Anyhow, I am still not sure about "Intelligence Design". The evolution speed in Darwin's natural selection appears to be too slow to evolve some very complex species, but at the same time, I also realize "unnatural selection" is much faster and very well be the answer. With "unnatural selection", we might not need "Intelligence Design". Case and point:

_ Soviet Union's Silver Fox "unnatural selection". Within 50 years, the scientists were able to domesticated the wild silver foxes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_sil...

_ The Khmer race. During 1975 - 1978, the Khmer Rouges (Khmer ultra nationalists and communists) murdered Cambodian who wore eye glasses. As the result, now a day in Cambodia, there are very few Cambodian students wearing eye glasses. You can verify my observation by doing an image google search for "Cambodian students". Then do the same image search against any other race's students.

I recommend to do a search against "Vietnamese students". Vietnamese students wear a lot more eye glasses and have been winning multiple international chess championships as well as math competitions. The Vietnamese is a neighboring race to the Khmer. And the Khmer race now a day is extremely murderous, angry and violent. And of course, they have an extreme low learning aptitude.

----------
My back ground:

I was born very poor in East Asia. When I was a toddler, I was often naked, dirty and wandering around unsupervised. At age 7, I was already subjected to fist fight and I fought pretty well in my first fight. By age 14, I rose to the rank of street battle commander. I was born into a hell hole, a labor neighborhood with a lot of dark-skinned Asians, while I was born with a beautiful light skin (from my mother's lineage, Chinese Kong, Confucius).

Anyway, I led the light-skinned kids into street battles against the dark-skinned kids. Light-skinned kids were fewer, weaker but we were much smarter and we prevailed.

I came to America at age 16 and was working as a coolie in a labor team with 3 other Cambodian laborers. That's how I knew so much about Khmer and Cambodia. Eventually one of the White teachers discovered my hidden talent. I was born with photographic memory and have an extremely fast learning speed, say at 100 times faster than any other Khmer or perhaps 10 times faster than any of you guys.(We can do a test here and let me flaunt my superior learning speed.)

Anyway, I was lifted out of poverty, given a foster family, then scholarship to go to college. My foster parents were a high class German American so my logic is very much Germanic.

At this moment, I am pretty well versed in most of the important subjects in mankind. I am currently giving myself a challenge: How do I stop the Khmer people who live in America but they do:

1. Openly incite for killing, warring, cutting the heads off another race, mainly the Vietnamese.
2. Blatantly call for murdering then dump the bodies to float in the river to scare the Vietnamese.
3. Side with China so that China would attack Vietnam. I already caution them, "China is an arch enemy to America. Vietnam is the new ally. You must not betray America." My comments got deleted again and again on American blogs which are operated by the Khmer.

Currently Khmer race in America is well known for the worst two Asian gangs.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#118612 Jul 18, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
And pray tell; by what means are you able to conclude on that with absolute certainty?
Where is the empirical evidence?
Good point. It is better to say no contemporary accounts are known to exist.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#118613 Jul 18, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
So when you make a claim and say that it is up to others to present evidence of the contrary should they choose to reject your claim; what do you call that?
If I claimed that evolution is not a fact; would you search for evidence that it is not and present it to me, or would you send me to do my own work.
To prove one thing, is to disprove another (in some if not all cases).
So why differentiate?
Are you sure you know what logic and reasoning even mean?
Nope, we wouldn't waste time presenting evidence we already know you'd ignore.

Evolution is the best explanation we have for the diversity of life on Earth. Magic may be the best explanation for the diversity of life on some other planet but not this one.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#118614 Jul 18, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
BECAUSE 1+2 = 3
Oooohhhh. Good answer. And here I was just thinking you were uneducated.
Drgunzet

Meridian, ID

#118615 Jul 18, 2014
Please come to this site:
http://kimedia.blogspot.com/
and try to talk some sense into the murderous Khmer folks. See for yourselves, they would delete your comments at will. Currently those Khmer folks believe they have the right to murder any unarmed defenseless civilian then float the body down to the river as a warning to other race not to come to Cambodia. In 1970, they murdered up to 100,000 Vietnamese and floated the body down the Mekong river en mass.

In 1975-1978, the Khmer race murdered each other. 2 million out of 7 Cambodian perished. In Cambodia, the government decided to keep the victim human skulls stacked high in the tens of thousands on displays in museums as a reminder for Cambodia. You folks can verify what I wrote by doing an image google search "Cambodian skulls". WARNING: it's horrible.

Khmer race used to be a Khmer empire. They conquered, destroyed or enslaved many smaller races, kingdoms around them to build their huge Angkor Wat temple. One of the vassal race, the Thais revolted and sacked the Khmer capital repeatedly, 4 to 6 times in a row. Smart and brave Khmer mostly died in battles or captured, taken away by the Thais.

What we have left today are mostly angry and murderous Khmer. They have extremely low learning aptitude. I used to tutor the Khmer students in school so I know.

There, we have the effect of "unnatural selection" at work.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#118616 Jul 18, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
Is this HOG nut sending PM's to anyone besides me?
You know Turkana, I think this one is nuttier than KAB and Jimbo put together.
He has sent some in the past. Mostly regarding his inability to define "kind".

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#118617 Jul 18, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Are you ever going to stop fencing and show us what you keep claiming?
It is fairly obvious that all he has is a whole lot of nothing.

But don't he dance purdy?

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#118618 Jul 18, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
Does the failure to form a specific interpretation of the Bible immediately suggest that IT is ...
HOG, no offense, don't want to jump into an argument that does not concern me, but right there, the point you just made, is relevant.

Everyone has an interpretation of the Bible, and they are just that - interpretations. No one knows what the original authors actually wanted to portray in their writings. Not you, not us, we all take from reading the Bible what we want to understand. "Prove it's fact, Prove it's not" - that will get us nowhere. It's an overall consensus that the Bible was translated poorly thus leading to the possibility that it's interpretations are not actually sound or factual. Could it be a possibility - and I ask this with an open mind, that what we read today is not actually what the original authors wanted to portray when they penned the original version? Could it be that the original authors only meant the Bible to be a book of fables that, over time were taken too literally by latter interpreters and... I don't want to say fabricated, because they may have sincerely believed the writings to be fact, rather misunderstood? I ask you this assuming that you are an intellectual; some of the posts you have made make sense. Please, in all honesty of what you believe and in your true opinion,, could this be a possibility?
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#118619 Jul 18, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
So when you make a claim and say that it is up to others to present evidence of the contrary should they choose to reject your claim; what do you call that?
If I claimed that evolution is not a fact; would you search for evidence that it is not and present it to me, or would you send me to do my own work.
To prove one thing, is to disprove another (in some if not all cases).
So why differentiate?
Are you sure you know what logic and reasoning even mean?
I shall repeat your reasoning above and fill it in with "flying spaghetti monster":

"So when you make the claim that there is a flying spaghetti monster existing and say that it is up to others to present evidence of the contrary should they choose to reject your claim; what do you call that?"
Well, you answer THAT yourself.
In other words, I'm still awaiting your answer on the flying spaghetti monster.

"If I claimed that evolution is not a fact; would you search for evidence that it is not and present it to me, or would you send me to do my own work."
A blurry question. What do you mean with "that it is not"?
Do you mean that evolution is not a fact? Or that "evolution is not a fact" is incorrect?

I already noticed that you are not very accurate in reasoning.

I will address both by reformulating your question:
1. "If I claimed that evolution is not a fact; would you search for evidence that evolution certainly is a fact and present it to me, or would you send me to do my own work."

I would answer that you are a liar and provide you some book titles and internet references. To back up my claim that you are a liar, not to fulfil your request. I would also send you to do your own job by start reading into the biological literature.

2. "If I claimed that evolution is not a fact; would you search for evidence that evolution is not a fact and present it to me, or would you send me to do my own work."

Certainly I will not do your job and testify against my own position by looking for evidence against evolution. Also in this case I would send you to do your own job by start reading into the biological literature.

But, more importantly, you are changing goal posts and pulling the discussion out of context. Also not particularly my trade. It also belongs to the realm of logical fallacies.

We were talking here about the evidence for EXISTENCE of phenomena.

The impossibility of disproving existence is very easy to demonstrate:
"There is a flying spaghetti monster"
"You do not agree"?
"Well, disprove it, then."

This is YOUR logical position and I asked you before to disprove the flying spaghetti monster.
You didn't. You dodged it by just ignoring the question.
I INSIST you do.
So I will let you experience your own position.
Good luck.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#118621 Jul 18, 2014
Drgunzet wrote:
Hey folks, I am a man of science. I already read a couple thousand books and tens of thousands articles. Genetics and evolution are my great interests and I was suspecting some kind of "Intelligence Design" was in place. I once told this very beautiful and hot eye doctor, "Homo Sapiens walked on earth 100,000 years ago. Assume 20 years between one generation, I do not believe after 5,000 generations/iteration a hairy primitive ape can evolve into a perfection like you."
I added, "You are beautiful and intelligent. There has to be an Intelligence Design at play."
...

3. Side with China so that China would attack Vietnam. I already caution them, "China is an arch enemy to America. Vietnam is the new ally. You must not betray America." My comments got deleted again and again on American blogs which are operated by the Khmer.
Currently Khmer race in America is well known for the worst two Asian gangs.
Good to know. You're delusional, and probably on the wrong thread. Hope Oregon turns out to better than your homeland.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#118622 Jul 18, 2014
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
He has sent some in the past. Mostly regarding his inability to define "kind".
I just shut off PM's in my account.
I don't need that in a public forum.
Drgunzet

Meridian, ID

#118623 Jul 18, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
Good to know. You're delusional, and probably on the wrong thread. Hope Oregon turns out to better than your homeland.
Why do you consider me to be delusional?

Frankly speaking, you folks are wasting time in this thread. The original point of this thread was simple: Creation (Intelligence Design) is not science. It must not be taught in school as science. Evolution has been accepted as science, so it will stay.

I gave up in pursuing the idea of Intelligence Design after I realized:
1. There are so much gaps in understanding. Lack of data.
2. The conflict of interest from the Church who wants the creation to be reintroduced into the school through Intelligence Design.

I do despite the church, therefore, if I ever chance on any understand about Intelligence Design, I will make sure the Church would not know about it.

----------
Anyhow, there are simpler, smaller things which I think more practical, pragmatic. I recently discovered an entire race has been "unnaturally selected to be stupid". I have seen in the past the Polish race had their officers murdered in the thousands by the Soviet during WWII. Did that make the Poles dumb?

I discovered the Khmer race is extremely dumb and angry, and has a genocidal mentality. So I gave myself a mission to fix this race. I think this is more practical than arguing Evolution vs. Creation, which was not really the point of the article.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#118624 Jul 18, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
And pray tell; by what means are you able to conclude on that with absolute certainty?
Where is the empirical evidence?
It will take a bit of reading on your part, but Wiki has a decent synopsis....and the references that back up the body of the article -- if you should care to pursue MORE information -- are a bonus.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_relia...

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#118626 Jul 18, 2014
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
It is fairly obvious that all he has is a whole lot of nothing.
But don't he dance purdy?
He sure do.

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#118627 Jul 18, 2014
Drgunzet wrote:
Hey folks, I am a man of science. I already read a couple thousand books and tens of thousands articles. Genetics and evolution are my great interests and I was suspecting some kind of "Intelligence Design" was in place. I once told this very beautiful and hot eye doctor, "Homo Sapiens walked on earth 100,000 years ago. Assume 20 years between one generation, I do not believe after 5,000 generations/iteration a hairy primitive ape can evolve into a perfection like you."
I added, "You are beautiful and intelligent. There has to be an Intelligence Design at play." The good doc surrendered to me.
Anyhow, I am still not sure about "Intelligence Design". The evolution speed in Darwin's natural selection appears to be too slow to evolve some very complex species, but at the same time, I also realize "unnatural selection" is much faster and very well be the answer. With "unnatural selection", we might not need "Intelligence Design". Case and point:
_ Soviet Union's Silver Fox "unnatural selection". Within 50 years, the scientists were able to domesticated the wild silver foxes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_sil...
_ The Khmer race. During 1975 - 1978, the Khmer Rouges (Khmer ultra nationalists and communists) murdered Cambodian who wore eye glasses. As the result, now a day in Cambodia, there are very few Cambodian students wearing eye glasses. You can verify my observation by doing an image google search for "Cambodian students". Then do the same image search against any other race's students.
I recommend to do a search against "Vietnamese students". Vietnamese students wear a lot more eye glasses and have been winning multiple international chess championships as well as math competitions. The Vietnamese is a neighboring race to the Khmer. And the Khmer race now a day is extremely murderous, angry and violent. And of course, they have an extreme low learning aptitude.
----------
My back ground:
I was born very poor in East Asia. When I was a toddler, I was often naked, dirty and wandering around unsupervised. At age 7, I was already subjected to fist fight and I fought pretty well in my first fight. By age 14, I rose to the rank of street battle commander. I was born into a hell hole, a labor neighborhood with a lot of dark-skinned Asians, while I was born with a beautiful light skin (from my mother's lineage, Chinese Kong, Confucius).
Anyway, I led the light-skinned kids into street battles against the dark-skinned kids. Light-skinned kids were fewer, weaker but we were much smarter and we prevailed.
I came to America at age 16 and was working as a coolie in a labor team with 3 other Cambodian laborers. That's how I knew so much about Khmer and Cambodia. Eventually one of the White teachers discovered my hidden talent. I was born with photographic memory and have an extremely fast learning speed, say at 100 times faster than any other Khmer or perhaps 10 times faster than any of you guys.(We can do a test here and let me flaunt my superior learning speed.)
Anyway, I was lifted out of poverty, given a foster family, then scholarship to go to college. My foster parents were a high class German American so my logic is very much Germanic.
At this moment, I am pretty well versed in most of the important subjects in mankind. I am currently giving myself a challenge: How do I stop the Khmer people who live in America but they do:
1. Openly incite for killing, warring, cutting the heads off another race, mainly the Vietnamese.
2. Blatantly call for murdering then dump the bodies to float in the river to scare the Vietnamese.
3. Side with China so that China would attack Vietnam. I already caution them, "China is an arch enemy to America. Vietnam is the new ally. You must not betray America." My comments got deleted again and again on American blogs which are operated by the Khmer.
Currently Khmer race in America is well known for the worst two Asian gangs.
Meth is a hell of a drug.

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#118628 Jul 18, 2014
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
He has sent some in the past. Mostly regarding his inability to define "kind".
He has sent me about 11 so far. I must be his favorite.

“Dinosaurs survived the flood!”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

Jesus probably rode dinosaurs!

#118629 Jul 18, 2014
Correction, I have gotten 18 PM's from that Hog.

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