Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 223191 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#117350 Jul 9, 2014
wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
lets test your knowledge that you can't Google. on average(if there is such) how many mutations or years(your choice) does it take to change from one species to a different species, what is required to call it a different species and what changes need to be seen before they are classified as a new species?
That is a poorly formed question since there are several different definitions of "species". First off how do you want to define up this supposed limitation. Scientists know that there are no clear barriers. That is why they have different definitions of what a species is and they know that they are not perfect since life evolves.

All your question really does is to illustrate that you have no idea what a species is.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#117351 Jul 9, 2014
wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
by the ay subduction zone, this is wondering.... when i am on my phone it wont let me sign in most of the time. so i go by "wondering" but rabbit on crack is me when i can sign in. i like to beat the bush and see what kind of little bugs i can bring out and you have to be the biggest bug and pest i have drug out so far. you talk crap, back nothing, spew crap, show nothing but blame everyone else.when you are clearly wrong and lying, shown wrong and lying you call it a mistake but hold everyone else that makes a mistake to a lie. what the helll do you think makes you better than anyone else on this thread that you only make mistakes but you claim everyone else lies? you are the biggest liar on this thread and also the biggest whining idiot. i do not know if you are male or female but if you are male then you are a complete jackassss and if you are female then you are a stupid biotchhh. that is the end of that story!!!!
I thought that the Rabbit's idiocy seemed familiar. Truly most of the time that you post as "Rabbit on crack" I ignore your posts since they are loaded with idiocy.

And you don't like the fact that I will call you an idiot when you are being an idiot. What scientific fact have I got wrong? Are you talking about when you were an idiot and could not understand that I was finding a working definition for "kind" and then you totally failed to do so? Even others had to come in and point out what an idiot that you were being.

It is nice to see where the crack Rabbit gets his ideas from.

“When you treat people as they ”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#117352 Jul 9, 2014
wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
language is learned at the speed of light compared to the time of evolution so yes that was and is a very poor and sad analogy. If you follow and support evolution you will see the point. a man speaking only english today can learn spanish in mere weeks but he will not evolve for 1000’s of years. comprenda omigo or do you entender espanol?
Time – why does the fundy always misrepresent time? Time is extremely flexible to evolution

Take a look at my avatar image, the skull of a cro magnon male, very similar you would think to modern humans and true, modern humans are their classification. However it is about 13% larger than the average today with a 10% larger brain pan and much thicker bone structure, that in around 30,000 years.

Pygmy three-toed sloth, less than 10,000 years to evolve for the full size sloth to its pigmy form

Ahh 30,000 and 10,000 years you say

In 50 years of study the peppered moth has evolved from a cream and brown wing pattern to today where 98% of the species numbers have completely black wings

Langkawi bent-toed gecko, a scientific curiosity because evolutionary changes in skin colour can be seen on a generation by generation basis and each generation is a matter of months. Other lizards are also being studied for their speed of evolution, example depluming their digestive tract to cope with differing foods.
wondering

Morris, OK

#117353 Jul 9, 2014
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
How was this a "sad analogy". Just because even a simple analogy was too difficult for your puny brain to understand does not make it a "sad analogy". We are not talking about "learning" a language. Remember this is an analogy and is meant to try to help get an idea across.
Wow, what a tard. And yes, I do understand Spanish better than you. There are three errors in your sad attempt to insult me, and I can see that with only high school level Spanish from many years ago.
it is as sad as idiots like you saying gravity is fact and evolution is fact. bad comparison! any moron can go and throw a rock in the air and see that gravity is has an effect. it is not that simple with gravity or evolution. comparing evolution as fact because gravity is fact only shows your weakness and shows that you do not understand either one of them at all. we still have much to learn about both so as we uns=derstand them at this point, we can not claim either is fact.

for there is much to be learned about both and it is too early to call either one of them as we understand them a “fact”!

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#117354 Jul 9, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
Explain how it "comes from the family".
Are the families in Muslim nations different form those in the west then, because WE (NOT YOU) treat women as being equal to men, Muslims do not.
Is your family different form others?
Because you treat women unequally, many other families don't.
Now, HOW come that you say that women should be obedient and submissive and WE don't.
What's the difference.
Er, let's have a look.
We both have families but .......(fill in the gap).
English do originated in England. Why would i listen your trash. The head of every homes are the men.
wondering

Morris, OK

#117355 Jul 9, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Time – why does the fundy always misrepresent time? Time is extremely flexible to evolution
Take a look at my avatar image, the skull of a cro magnon male, very similar you would think to modern humans and true, modern humans are their classification. However it is about 13% larger than the average today with a 10% larger brain pan and much thicker bone structure, that in around 30,000 years.
Pygmy three-toed sloth, less than 10,000 years to evolve for the full size sloth to its pigmy form
Ahh 30,000 and 10,000 years you say
In 50 years of study the peppered moth has evolved from a cream and brown wing pattern to today where 98% of the species numbers have completely black wings
Langkawi bent-toed gecko, a scientific curiosity because evolutionary changes in skin colour can be seen on a generation by generation basis and each generation is a matter of months. Other lizards are also being studied for their speed of evolution, example depluming their digestive tract to cope with differing foods.
i am glad you brought that up. do tell us in detail, with backing evidence, why some species evolve faster than others. what is the driving force of evolution that makes it work faster here and slower there? i know but do you?
wondering

Morris, OK

#117356 Jul 9, 2014
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> English do originated in England. Why would i listen your trash. The head of every homes are the men.
Charles get out of the bronze age. many men have became the house/stay at home dad why the woman makes the money. times are and have been changing. you have only two choices,,, stay caught up or get left behind. there are more stay at home dads now today than there have ever been.
wondering

Morris, OK

#117357 Jul 9, 2014
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I thought that the Rabbit's idiocy seemed familiar. Truly most of the time that you post as "Rabbit on crack" I ignore your posts since they are loaded with idiocy.
And you don't like the fact that I will call you an idiot when you are being an idiot. What scientific fact have I got wrong? Are you talking about when you were an idiot and could not understand that I was finding a working definition for "kind" and then you totally failed to do so? Even others had to come in and point out what an idiot that you were being.
It is nice to see where the crack Rabbit gets his ideas from.
others?? you seem to not notice you have not been backed by many if any lately. you always say "we" when it is just you. but you are right others are seeing your idiocy and not speaking or taking up for you as much any more, if they even do at all. deal with it for that is life you idiot jack wagon.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#117358 Jul 9, 2014
wondering wrote:
lets test your knowledge that you can't Google. on average(if there is such) how many mutations or years(your choice) does it take to change from one species to a different species,
Good way of telling everyone you don't know very much about evolution. There is no set amount of mutations or length of time. What is needed is for populations to stop being able to interbreed due to genetic drift.
wondering wrote:
what is required to call it a different species
When it is no longer able to breed with a prior population of what looks to be the same species. The term "species" is arbitrary. It's a label. Nothing more.
wondering wrote:
and what changes need to be seen before they are classified as a new species?
There are no set changes. The changes will vary from species to species. All that matters is if one group can no longer breed with another group.

We see this in ring species. We have three groups, populations A, C and E. A and C can't breed with each other because they are different enough to each other that we call them a different species. But C can reproduce with both A and E, because it is genetically between both. Eventually these groups will continue to diversify and none will be able to reproduce with each other. But what we will find is that there are now populations of B who can reproduce with A and C, and population D who can reproduce with populations C and E.

The line between them all is blurred. Like a colour spectrum, all the colours blend into each other, But we can clearly see the different colours, like red, yellow, green and blue. Evolution works in a similar fashion. There are no nice neat pigeon holes to place "species" in because in reality "species" does not exist. All that happens in reality is that life constantly changes and diversifies, to a point where related populations are sufficiently different that they are no longer able to breed anymore.

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#117359 Jul 9, 2014
wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
it is as sad as idiots like you saying gravity is fact and evolution is fact. bad comparison! any moron can go and throw a rock in the air and see that gravity is has an effect. it is not that simple with gravity or evolution. comparing evolution as fact because gravity is fact only shows your weakness and shows that you do not understand either one of them at all. we still have much to learn about both so as we uns=derstand them at this point, we can not claim either is fact.
for there is much to be learned about both and it is too early to call either one of them as we understand them a “fact”!
This is pretty funny, you're the dumbest of the dumb and the first fundie to even deny gravity exists, in effort to discredit evolution. Gravity is a fact, it not being able to say exactly what it is wont change the fact it exists. Same as evolution, but we pretty much know what causes gravity and evolution, what we can't answer is why .
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#117360 Jul 9, 2014
Naughtyrobot wrote:
<quoted text> Interesting. So hummingbirds just became better hummingbirds, adapted. And the flowers adapted with them. But they did not change into pigs or dogs or boys?
No, because that would be a violation of nested hierarchies. That would falsify evolution.
wondering

Morris, OK

#117361 Jul 9, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Good way of telling everyone you don't know very much about evolution. There is no set amount of mutations or length of time. What is needed is for populations to stop being able to interbreed due to genetic drift.
<quoted text>
When it is no longer able to breed with a prior population of what looks to be the same species. The term "species" is arbitrary. It's a label. Nothing more.
<quoted text>
There are no set changes. The changes will vary from species to species. All that matters is if one group can no longer breed with another group.
We see this in ring species. We have three groups, populations A, C and E. A and C can't breed with each other because they are different enough to each other that we call them a different species. But C can reproduce with both A and E, because it is genetically between both. Eventually these groups will continue to diversify and none will be able to reproduce with each other. But what we will find is that there are now populations of B who can reproduce with A and C, and population D who can reproduce with populations C and E.
The line between them all is blurred. Like a colour spectrum, all the colours blend into each other, But we can clearly see the different colours, like red, yellow, green and blue. Evolution works in a similar fashion. There are no nice neat pigeon holes to place "species" in because in reality "species" does not exist. All that happens in reality is that life constantly changes and diversifies, to a point where related populations are sufficiently different that they are no longer able to breed anymore.
1) so if some of the populations acquire the mutations and some don’t but yet they all stay in the same population,,, when and what decides for them to break off from the population?

2) so since a wolf cannot breed with a pekingese does that make them a different species?

3) again so since a wolf cannot breed with a pekingese does that make them a different species?
wondering

Morris, OK

#117362 Jul 9, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
This is pretty funny, you're the dumbest of the dumb and the first fundie to even deny gravity exists, in effort to discredit evolution. Gravity is a fact, it not being able to say exactly what it is wont change the fact it exists. Same as evolution, but we pretty much know what causes gravity and evolution, what we can't answer is why .
where did i say i deny gravity exists? can you read? the reply you made makes you the dumbest of the dumb for i never said gravity does not exist. however i did say we still have a lot to learn about gravity.

what are you like a half breed of stupid and dumb? maybe like jap and lower american?

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#117363 Jul 9, 2014
wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
this is a total crock of crap. a person can learn language in a mere few years. it took more than a mere few years for the hummingbird. surely you can come up with a better analogy that that.
Language evolves. Species evolve.
An individual does not create the language and the individual hummingbird does not learn to be its species. Your interpretation of the analogy is flawed... on purpose?

“When you treat people as they ”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#117364 Jul 9, 2014
wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
i am glad you brought that up. do tell us in detail, with backing evidence, why some species evolve faster than others. what is the driving force of evolution that makes it work faster here and slower there? i know but do you?
I am not here to teach you anything only to provide what I know. And how anyone in their right mind could be expected to be taught,“in detail, with backing evidence” anything about evolution is really quite beyond me and really shows a considerable ignorance of the subject.

But if you claim to know and are capable of expressing your knowledge “in detail, with backing evidence” in about 3950 characters per post then feel free.

You want to educate yourself then Google is quite a good source, Google scholar is better. You have the names I supplied to make it easier for you.

Actually when you say you know, are you claiming you know what Darwin wrote over 150 years ago or are you more up to date on the subject

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#117365 Jul 9, 2014
wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
where did i say i deny gravity exists? can you read? the reply you made makes you the dumbest of the dumb for i never said gravity does not exist. however i did say we still have a lot to learn about gravity.
what are you like a half breed of stupid and dumb? maybe like jap and lower american?
Your words....

"it is as sad as idiots like you saying gravity is fact and evolution is fact"

They are facts, if they weren't facts they wouldn't exist.
So it's the same as saying they don't exist.

“When you treat people as they ”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#117366 Jul 9, 2014
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> English do originated in England. Why would i listen your trash. The head of every homes are the men.
Been here before – all you have proves is that you are dumb and ignorant about the history of the English language, gender and family
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#117367 Jul 9, 2014
Rabbit On Crack wrote:
i am a science buff and preach and teach science.
Pity you're clueless.
Rabbit On Crack wrote:
what sets me apart from you is that when I am asked a question, science or not i try to answer it with the knowledge i have and I will not lie for science or the creationists.
Too late. You just did.
Rabbit On Crack wrote:
you on the other hand just spout off the same ole bs of what have you read or heard which you clearly do not understand. you see things one way and one way only and that is you think you are always right.
We're not always right, but if you wanna compare track records, creationists don't have a hope in hell.
Rabbit On Crack wrote:
bad news little turd, you are nothing in this thread or world but just a piss ant spouting off looking for someone to bite.
You bite all the time.

If you didn't, you wouldn't be here. You're biting right now.
Rabbit On Crack wrote:
you keep saying in you responses “we” this ‘we” that but have you not noticed you have no “we”? it is only “you” looking the fool.
That must be why you can't refute us then.(shrug)
Rabbit On Crack wrote:
the way science works is if a question or problem comes up they will try to answer it the best they can even if it is looking at it at an angle that is outside of the normal.
WRONG.

The way science works is by using empricism and the scientific method. If you're not doing these things, you're not doing science.

That's why creationists aren't doing science. They say biological reality (that passes the scientific method) is wrong because invisible Jews are magic.

That is why you fail.

Always.
Rabbit On Crack wrote:
you are just an idiot with a one track mind that only sees yourself as right. the problem is that you are wrong more than you are right but you are too stupid to see that. also you are too quick to judge a person for their opinion and when a person gives you an acceptable answer(example; of what I follow) that will passes anyone’s standards,,, you reject it because you don’t see it as right. you are just an idiot jack wagon and that is all you have evolved to be or ever will be!
Your insults are nothing more than irrelevant ad-hom. This is why virtually the entire scientific community rejects creationism. Probably has something to do with the fact you're full of crap. And that is NOT ad-hom. Just an accurate description of your position.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#117368 Jul 9, 2014
wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
it is as sad as idiots like you saying gravity is fact and evolution is fact. bad comparison! any moron can go and throw a rock in the air and see that gravity is has an effect. it is not that simple with gravity or evolution. comparing evolution as fact because gravity is fact only shows your weakness and shows that you do not understand either one of them at all. we still have much to learn about both so as we uns=derstand them at this point, we can not claim either is fact.
for there is much to be learned about both and it is too early to call either one of them as we understand them a “fact”!
Do you have a similar issue with those who claim as "fact" that God made all species (kinds) whole, hale, intentionally and instantly? What is YOUR alternative to the ToE? Aliens?

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#117369 Jul 9, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Your words....
"it is as sad as idiots like you saying gravity is fact and evolution is fact"
They are facts, if they weren't facts they wouldn't exist.
So it's the same as saying they don't exist.
No, he's saying that in his mind evolution is compared with gravity as an observable fact. Of course both >are< observed, but apparently he's got some instant gratification issues - that would explain the crack....

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