Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 209965 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#117226 Jul 7, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
The Bible is significantly influenced by culture (even science is), therefore an understanding of the culture from which it originated is key to understanding it.
How much exactly do you know about Jewish thought and culture??????????
Very interesting.
I always was told by creationists that the bible was the inerrant word of god.
Now it seems to be influenced by human culture.
In order to understand the eternal truth we FIRST have to investigate Jewish thought and culture?

How interesting.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#117227 Jul 7, 2014
wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Chimpanzees are 96% to 98% similar to humans, depending on how it is calculated.(source)
http://genome.wellcome.ac.uk/doc_WTD020730.ht...
Cats have 90% of homologous genes with humans, 82% with dogs, 80% with cows, 79% with chimpanzees, 69% with rats and 67% with mice.(source)
http://genome.cshlp.org/content/17/11/1675.fu...
Cows (Bos taurus) are 80% genetically similar to humans (source)
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/324/5926/52...
75% of mouse genes have equivalents in humans (source), 90% of the mouse genome could be lined up with a region on the human genome (source) 99% of mouse genes turn out to have analogues in humans (source)
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v420/n69...
The fruit fly (Drosophila) shares about 60% of its DNA with humans (source).
http://www.genome.gov/10005835
About 60% of chicken genes correspond to a similar human gene (source)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/12/...
all dna show "similarities" in one form or another.
Good. So we agree then that 98% of our genome is **orthologous** with chimpanzees on a base for base basis. Glad we cleared that up.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#117228 Jul 7, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Damn son, wth do you need?
To hold hands with a hominid for a million years as it transforms into human?
That is the oft used creationist argument. We must effectively account for every second that passes in the entire universe. And if we can't? Goddidit. They on the other hand don't have to do a thing except sit on their azz.

Just look at Hog.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#117229 Jul 7, 2014
wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
and you are who?,, oh yeah you are the one i complimented the other day about being smart and you replied back with an insult. i have given the same information you have. what's next, what school, what state, what town, where do you work, where do you live? i don't think so creepy geek.
He wasn't asking anything personal, he was looking for the specifics of the qualifications you claimed. For instance, electronic engineer or mechanical engineer. He could tell you his particular qualifications and how they are relevant to the stuff he posts.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#117230 Jul 7, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>This is being fruitful and multiplying after kinds just as the Bible claims. Evolution theory claims all life started very simple and became something more complex over time and the Bible says God said for all these living things to come forth some from the waters and some from the dry ground and it was so. The power of God caused life on Earth to come about and he has all power in heaven and earth to accomplish his will as soon as he commands for it to be so.
Evolution theory in its modern fashion started with Darwin OBSERVING the geological record, revealed by English geologists before him. Already in 1796 geologist William Smith observed that certain fossils where only found in certain layers. Furthermore, if given a group of fossils, he could give the order in which they were found in the strata. For that he was nicknamed William "Strata" Smith. All subsequent pre-Darwinian geologists, most of whom did not believe in evolution, added to this record. As a matter of fact. all those early geologists were creationists in the modern rendition of the word.

They eventually worked out an elaborate relative timescale long before Darwin published The Origin of Species. What Darwin eventually provided was a convincing explanation why we observe the particular order in the fossil sequence and in particular why different ages have different fossils.

NO assumptions AT ALL.
OBSERVATIONS.
Not done by evolutionists but by pious and deeply religious men for that matter.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#117231 Jul 7, 2014
wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
now take this part of your practiced speech -- "Denial is not a river in Egypt.
You have been shown to be wrong on both small topics and the major topic in this discussion. You have continually shown that you are dishonest and cannot admit when you have even made the smallest of mistakes, not to mention how you have been totally wrong form the start. How do you expect to learn when you cannot even own up to your smallest of errors'--- read it while looking at yourself in a mirror and come to grips that is you to a perfect tee..
Wow!

Just wow!

Care to repeat any more lies you rude idiotic biatch?

I admitted my errors, you have not admitted even he smallest of yours.

Or do you deny that you read the source I gave to define clades and took out of it the errors about both monkeys and especially snakes not being lizards?

And why did you lie about your education?

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#117232 Jul 7, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
The Guardians Of The Galaxy?
Green Lantern Corps?

Hehehe.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#117233 Jul 7, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted The Garden of Eden account was an isolated event as suggested by the narrative.
AND IF THE BIBLE CAN BE INTERPRETED TO MATCH ANY KNOWN FACTS; THEN IT IS INDISPENSABLE, FOR WE CAN USE IT TO LEARN THE NATURE OF ALL FACTS.
Actually if it can match ALL facts that makes it crap. Fact is that not all facts are currently known, but according to you it doesn't matter anyway because the Bible will match up with anything no matter what is found. That's why it's not capable of making any scientific predictions. That's why it was USELESS at telling us about the Big Bang, which is probably why cosmologists NEVER found the Bible helpful when developing the theory. That's why it was USELESS at telling us what the shape of the Earth was, because apparently it was a flat square geocentric circle, but you say you have to "interpret" it "correctly" to tell us that the description (even though it's crap) really does match the actual shape of the Earth, it's just that it said it in a poetic (and pretty useless) way.

Because apparently the Almighty isn't very good at giving straight answers.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#117234 Jul 7, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
By the definition of God that I know, God exists.
<quoted text>
NO!
Thats not beggin the question either.
To my knowledge, "God" means "Power"; "God" is defined to be "power"; not the powerful, but the power/potential itself is "God".
Now, I know that God exists, because God is power (the god I identify as "God"); and I know that power exists.
Nobody gives a flying crud about what you claim to know. We only care about what you can demonstrate.

Which so far is jack diddly.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#117235 Jul 7, 2014
wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
well if you want to be ignorant about it,,, let look at "kind" in the bible. the bible speaks of two "kinds of animals". 1) clean, 2) unclean. so technically there is a working definition for "kind" in the bible. they did not have clade. They did not have domain, kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus or species. What they spoke of, being they were not as knowledgeable as we are today, were two --"kinds"-- of animals as follows; animals of the same kind---"clean" and animals of the same kind---"unclean".
now i can help you support evolution or i can hinder your bs petty arguments you throw at the creationists. They are people just like you and i. if you talk to them as people, show them a little respect which they do deserve, you will get further in talking to them and trying to explain things to them that they don't understand. look at Charles Idemi on my first post to him when he asked me what i believe. i explained to him what, why and what it was about. his reply was "you have some good points but not everything in the bible is false". he is correct that not everything in the bible is false and now maybe he will think about those good points i presented to him and when he is ready he might even want to discuss them more. we don't know. but it is better than treating them as idiots and bashing them down.
So basically what you're saying is that the only two "kinds" of animals are:

1 - covered in shite.

2 - NOT covered in shite.

Now this almost makes Noah's Ark feasible.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#117236 Jul 7, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
AND IF THE BIBLE CAN BE INTERPRETED TO MATCH ANY KNOWN FACTS; THEN IT IS INDISPENSABLE, FOR WE CAN USE IT TO LEARN THE NATURE OF ALL FACTS.
Sheesh!
The Dude

UK

#117237 Jul 7, 2014
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Green Lantern Corps?
Hehehe.
Guy Gardiner is my bouncer!
carry on 123

Honolulu, HI

#117238 Jul 7, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
Very interesting.
I always was told by creationists that the bible was the inerrant word of god.
Now it seems to be influenced by human culture.
In order to understand the eternal truth we FIRST have to investigate Jewish thought and culture?
How interesting.
http://kabbalah.com/what-kabbalah
This is a good place to start.
Definitely a solution to aggression
and Mis-understandings gone wrong.
100:08 AM pst
HMT 123

Honolulu, HI

#117239 Jul 7, 2014
so u can see name change
but location is consistent.
10:47 AM pst

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#117240 Jul 7, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
I cant agree.
Wherever there is motion there is time, and movement is universal (motion by whichever definition you choose).
I want to elaborate a it on this because it is an important aspect of our universe which we have now known for about a century.

Yes, time is defined so that motion looks simple (quote of A. Wheeler). But, what is important in the 'first cause' argument is not just that motion exists, but that there is a well-defined notion of 'before' and 'after'. And this is precisely what fails in the real world.

For example, suppose there are two events E1 and E2. It is quite possible for one observer, say O1 to see E1 as happening before E2 and a different observer, say O2 to see E2 happening before E1. This is true even when the time for light to travel is taken into account. Different observers really can disagree about which of two events is 'first'.

Now, in ordinary situations, this doesn't happen: it takes fairly large relative velocities of very large gravitational forces for this effect to be large enough to make a difference of, say, seconds. But it is a real effect.

Furthermore, any time you have two events that are not in each others light cones (so neither can be causally connected to the other), there will be situations where different observers will see the order as different.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#117241 Jul 7, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
Moreover, if two things happened at the same time at different places; you will not be able to say that they are not directly connected or are the same event anyway.
Also false in the real world. The fact that they happen at different places and at the same time (for any observer), will show that they cannot be causally connected: neither is the cause of the other (they could have a common cause, though).
messianic114

Calgary, Canada

#117242 Jul 7, 2014
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Is "gravity" a fact?
As much as gravity is a fact so is evolution. Evolution has been observed by various different means. The only thing that supports your views was a book written by dyspeptic goat herders that had to be told not to have sex with their sisters. That does not sound like the brightest bunch of boys if you ask me.
Surely if creationism was true you should be able to find some sort of scientific evidence that supports it.
.
Observation is not enough to give certainty. We can observe the sun rising in the sky and we could theorize that it has circled the earth, but that in itself is not enough to correctly postulate a geocentric solar system.
.
In the last 150 years of which evolution has been a theory, have we observed any new species develop? No. In that time it is possible that a bacterial culture would have produced over 236 million generations and billions of progeny but at the end of it all what do we have? I'll tell you, we have a bacterium.
.
If evolution were actually happening we would observe it. It would be testable, we could make predictions as to when we would expect an evolutionary change. So far we got zippo.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#117243 Jul 7, 2014
messianic114 wrote:
<quoted text>
.
Observation is not enough to give certainty. We can observe the sun rising in the sky and we could theorize that it has circled the earth, but that in itself is not enough to correctly postulate a geocentric solar system.
.
In the last 150 years of which evolution has been a theory, have we observed any new species develop? No. In that time it is possible that a bacterial culture would have produced over 236 million generations and billions of progeny but at the end of it all what do we have? I'll tell you, we have a bacterium.
.
If evolution were actually happening we would observe it. It would be testable, we could make predictions as to when we would expect an evolutionary change. So far we got zippo.
We have observed species change on the microscopic level in the laboratory. And you obviously have no idea what bacteria are. Bacteria are more diverse in life than all animal life put together. In fact even what many people think of as a bacterial species is actually much bigger. Take E. coli as an example. They are greater in genetic diversity than all apes. Complaining about E. coli not "evolving" would be similar to complaining that people have not evolved since we are still apes.

You are artificially trying to limit the time of observation for the length of time that the theory has been here. You conveniently forget that we can observe life for many millions of years using the fossil record. We can also observe evolution by comparing genomes.

We have observed evolution in many ways. We have also tested it. One clear example was the fining of Tiktaalik. That was found using the predictive powers of the theory of evolution.

So it has all of the properties of any scientific theory. We can observe it. We can make predictions with the theory. And we can test the theory. You are simply arguing from ignorance and listening to lying sources.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#117244 Jul 7, 2014
An article on the observation of speciation:

http://tinyurl.com/28cz4

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#117245 Jul 7, 2014
An example of a species that has evolved recently:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_wall_liz...

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