Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 222919 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

FREE SERVANT

Tucker, GA

#116463 Jul 1, 2014
Variety gives life definition and beauty. The claim that all living things reproduce and are fruitful after their own kind, has vast evidence for it. If life was just chemical reactions and living things just changing over time from simpler to more complex forms, then this would be happening today in every creature. If living things could change into different kinds of things, then we should see great amounts of evidence for this in every creature.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#116464 Jul 1, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
Variety gives life definition and beauty. The claim that all living things reproduce and are fruitful after their own kind, has vast evidence for it. If life was just chemical reactions and living things just changing over time from simpler to more complex forms, then this would be happening today in every creature. If living things could change into different kinds of things, then we should see great amounts of evidence for this in every creature.
Because new species evolve every 30 minutes and are easy to spot. Putz.
FREE SERVANT

Tucker, GA

#116465 Jul 1, 2014
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Because new species evolve every 30 minutes and are easy to spot. Putz.
Nope, the kinds of things you see are just descendants of their own kind. There is nothing new under the sun.

“When you treat people as they ”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#116466 Jul 1, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
Variety gives life definition and beauty. The claim that all living things reproduce and are fruitful after their own kind, has vast evidence for it. If life was just chemical reactions and living things just changing over time from simpler to more complex forms, then this would be happening today in every creature. If living things could change into different kinds of things, then we should see great amounts of evidence for this in every creature.
You are making the usual fundy error of omitting time

Over time there is vast amounts of evidence for change, just not this week or this month or this year

There are some species that such change is comparatively rapid. The pygmy three-toed sloth (Bradypus pygmaeus) has evolved from a large mainland beast to a much smaller one that tolerates a completely different diet in just 10,000 years. There is evidence of change in the Langkawi bent-toed gecko (Cyrtodactylus macrotuberculatus) on a generation by generation basis.

My avater shows the skull of a human dating back around 35000 years, it is considerably different to that of modern humans is shape, size and bone density (the reason I use it is to dispel the fundy myth that transitional fossils do not exist). 100,000 years ago no such skulls existed, 60 million years ago primates did not exist. 400 million years ago limbs did not exist and 500 million years ago eyes did not exist. 600 million years ago simple animals evolved from multicellular life

There is doubt that the tree of life is a complex one producing (over time) different groups and species

The evidence for evolution is many fold and conclusive

Or you could all just throw you hands up in the air and say ĖĎ owww, thatís too much for my poor brain to think about so god mustadunitwiv magicí and step back to the bronze age.
FREE SERVANT

Tucker, GA

#116467 Jul 1, 2014
Life itself is an outstanding example of God's handy work. We see harmony of form or color and excellence that is well done all around us in nature. Earth is an outstanding example. Originality is gratifying and telling of his majesty nearly everywhere we look. Beauty is an egregious example for some one to behold it.
The Dude

UK

#116468 Jul 1, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>Nope, the kinds of things you see are just descendants of their own kind. There is nothing new under the sun.
In which case we're all clones.
FREE SERVANT

Tucker, GA

#116469 Jul 1, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
In which case we're all clones.
No, We are not exactly like our originating forms, I think because of how the instructions vary through the cell cycle and only certain things are recreated anew just like their originator.

Level 8

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#116470 Jul 1, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
You are making the usual fundy error of omitting time
Over time there is vast amounts of evidence for change, just not this week or this month or this year
There are some species that such change is comparatively rapid. The pygmy three-toed sloth (Bradypus pygmaeus) has evolved from a large mainland beast to a much smaller one that tolerates a completely different diet in just 10,000 years. There is evidence of change in the Langkawi bent-toed gecko (Cyrtodactylus macrotuberculatus) on a generation by generation basis.
My avater shows the skull of a human dating back around 35000 years, it is considerably different to that of modern humans is shape, size and bone density (the reason I use it is to dispel the fundy myth that transitional fossils do not exist). 100,000 years ago no such skulls existed, 60 million years ago primates did not exist. 400 million years ago limbs did not exist and 500 million years ago eyes did not exist. 600 million years ago simple animals evolved from multicellular life
There is doubt that the tree of life is a complex one producing (over time) different groups and species
The evidence for evolution is many fold and conclusive
Or you could all just throw you hands up in the air and say ĖĎ owww, thatís too much for my poor brain to think about so god mustadunitwiv magicí and step back to the bronze age.
So, by this line of reason, no God, we all came from a common ancestral creature, interspecies relationships are fine and dandy? Bestiality is ok? I am not into it, but your line of thought seems to open up the rationalization of such activity. Just sayin'
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#116471 Jul 1, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>No, We are not exactly like our originating forms, I think because of how the instructions vary through the cell cycle and only certain things are recreated anew just like their originator.
Variation is impossible. You said nothing new. Ergo no variation. In order to have something different from one thing it must have something the other thing does not. That would be a variation. But if nothing new ever arises you can never have anything different, ergo no variation. We are all clones.
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#116472 Jul 1, 2014
Naughtyrobot wrote:
<quoted text>So, by this line of reason, no God, we all came from a common ancestral creature, interspecies relationships are fine and dandy? Bestiality is ok? I am not into it, but your line of thought seems to open up the rationalization of such activity. Just sayin'
Actually no, bestiality isn't a good idea. For one thing you're not compatible with another species and so can't have any offspring.

The other thing is that other species tend not to be as hygienic as we are, so it's a good way to get diseases.

Of course if there IS a God then that line of thought opens up the rationalization of such activity. For all things can be justified under God. Just pick anything you like and don't like and just say your God agrees with you. And that's how it works.
FREE SERVANT

Tucker, GA

#116473 Jul 1, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Variation is impossible. You said nothing new. Ergo no variation. In order to have something different from one thing it must have something the other thing does not. That would be a variation. But if nothing new ever arises you can never have anything different, ergo no variation. We are all clones.
The cell cycle must cause variation, and diversity to the progeny happens by the instructions that are encoded to do this. I think new instructions may be passed on to progeny, but the original life forms were the same kind they always were.
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#116474 Jul 1, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>The cell cycle must cause variation, and diversity to the progeny happens by the instructions that are encoded to do this. I think new instructions may be passed on to progeny, but the original life forms were the same kind they always were.
If we have new stuff we have variation. If we have variation then we have evolution. If not, we are all identical clones.

Don't worry, evolution means we are of the same "kind" though - we are both eukaryote multi-cellular organisms.
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#116475 Jul 1, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>The cell cycle must cause variation, and diversity to the progeny happens by the instructions that are encoded to do this. I think new instructions may be passed on to progeny, but the original life forms were the same kind they always were.
Mutations are observed, both in lab experiments and in field observations.
Cell cycles does not cause variation. Mutations on the genetic level do.
You have not a single understanding of biology not even to 101 level.
You just hustle a thing or two "cell cycle", "progeny" etc. until it fits you preoccupied notions.
There has been a lot of thinking done before you by literally hundreds of thousands biologists, geneticists and biochemists. I think it would be a little bit more proper for this debate you start to read SOME of it.

Since: Nov 07

St. James, NY

#116476 Jul 1, 2014
Naughtyrobot wrote:
<quoted text>So, by this line of reason, no God, we all came from a common ancestral creature, interspecies relationships are fine and dandy? Bestiality is ok? I am not into it, but your line of thought seems to open up the rationalization of such activity. Just sayin'
Except for two things. Accepting science such as Evolution does not mean rejecting God and belief in God is not the only path to moral behavior.
wondering

Morris, OK

#116477 Jul 2, 2014
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
The expansion comes from red shift measurements compared to distances. The accelerating expansion comes from supernova observations and curve fitting. General relativity is the background theory to explain things, but it is a general theory into which specific observations need to be applied. But between the supernovae, the red shifts, the background radiation, etc, the evidence shows that not only is there an expansion, but that the rate of expansion has been increasing for the last couple of billion years.
Quite a lot has been done in cosmology recently. Questions that were wide open 20 years ago with factors of two (like the age of the universe) and now known to within 1%. The cosmological constant has been confirmed (again because of the acceleration) and the dichotomies that existed in theories without it have been expanded a bit.
There is no evidence that the universe is still expanding or currently speeding up in expansion. All there is evidence for is that is was expanding. We don't know if it still is or not. When we see something that is 5000, 10,000, 100,000, 1,000,000 or 10,000,000 light years away we are not seeing it as it is. We are seeing it as it was. We are looking back in time and don't even know if it is the same, different or even still there. When using cosmological red shift we are using things in those measurements that may not even be there any longer or may have completely changed. Anything that is 1000 light years and up away, we can only guess about it even still being there.

It is similar to holding a 400 year old picture in your hand of New York City and thinking it will look like that when you get there, you are looking back in time with that picture but when you get there (caught up in time), you see how much has changed.
wondering

Morris, OK

#116478 Jul 2, 2014
I know this is going to be like finding $500 on the ground in a crowd of peasants and asking who it belongs to(everyone's hand will go up) but is there actually anyone here that holds a PHD in any scientific field? Most here seem like parrots looking for a cracker.

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#116479 Jul 2, 2014
wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no evidence that the universe is still expanding or currently speeding up in expansion. All there is evidence for is that is was expanding. We don't know if it still is or not. When we see something that is 5000, 10,000, 100,000, 1,000,000 or 10,000,000 light years away we are not seeing it as it is. We are seeing it as it was. We are looking back in time and don't even know if it is the same, different or even still there. When using cosmological red shift we are using things in those measurements that may not even be there any longer or may have completely changed. Anything that is 1000 light years and up away, we can only guess about it even still being there.
It is similar to holding a 400 year old picture in your hand of New York City and thinking it will look like that when you get there, you are looking back in time with that picture but when you get there (caught up in time), you see how much has changed.
What you said here and with the picture makes no sense.

"We are looking back in time and don't even know if it is the same, different or even still there."

Considering the fact we are here, and here is at the edge of the expansion we are starting at the end and looking back. We can also see between here and there by looking at closer objects say 4 minutes ago with the sun.

But with the picture you can't see between NY 400 years ago and now.
So you see looking back at the universe is comparable to looking at a 400 year long movie.

Now I grant you that some of the galaxies we see looking back maybe gone now, but we know the universe is still here because we are here.

We also know the expansion is speeding up because it's like looking at the movie played in reverse and the red shift is higher the father away the object is.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#116480 Jul 2, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Is it any wonder that you woman had dumped you? Your attitude is out of the bronze age.
Name one task other than ejaculating Ďsemení(because that is far outweighed by the consequences) that a man can do that is barred to a woman.
The only reason women were treated as second class is because of the jealousy of the men who put abrahamic religion together. Most other religions have no such misogyny. It was only the need for ownership and control that prompted the woman hatred endemic in abrahamic religion. It really does surprise me that so many good gobot women are taken in by the abuse.
And it is because of this abomination that western and middle eastern women always have to prove they are better than men at whatever they are doing just to be treated equally. Of course that could never make any difference you your bigoted mindset.
Total crap.
I am legally married. We are still together by God's special grace. Can the ovary function without the semen?
wondering

Morris, OK

#116481 Jul 2, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
What you said here and with the picture makes no sense.
"We are looking back in time and don't even know if it is the same, different or even still there."
Considering the fact we are here, and here is at the edge of the expansion we are starting at the end and looking back. We can also see between here and there by looking at closer objects say 4 minutes ago with the sun.
But with the picture you can't see between NY 400 years ago and now.
So you see looking back at the universe is comparable to looking at a 400 year long movie.
Now I grant you that some of the galaxies we see looking back maybe gone now, but we know the universe is still here because we are here.
We also know the expansion is speeding up because it's like looking at the movie played in reverse and the red shift is higher the father away the object is.
us being here has nothing to do with it. you do realize that we don't see out to far away objects in space that is why it is like looking back in time. a star that we can see light from at 5 million light years away could have went supernova 4 million light years ago but yet we will still see the light of that star. the picture was to show what we see in that picture is not the same as now(back in time to present. it was not meant to confuse you). anything we see in space that is 1000 or more light years away may or may not be there. the edge of the universe is billions of light years away and could be pulsating, could be at a stand still, could be expanding.or could be collapsing back in for all we know.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#116482 Jul 2, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
So you have no clue where I can find this research into immortals that you are advocating I read? And therefore ignore the fact that you were the one who raised the question and just pretend you never asked.
So, we donít know precisely when we will die, science can give averages based on country and even location so why are you trying to tie science up with clairvoyance? Itís just as irrelevant to the discussion as the rest of your garbage. The garbage like you saying science and nutrition have raised the average age of death from 24 in biblical times to almost 80 now. Factual and documented but hey ho, the great god Charlie idiot says otherwise eh?
But of course you are of the mind that because science does not know, because no one know then it must be god wotdunitwiv magic - right?
The same shit.
Your statement does not prove anything.

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