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Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 221399 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#116204 Jun 27, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
But the inferences are made based on the assumption that X and Y have things common/ correspond at a certain point.
Therefore you are ariving at a knowledge of X by assuming that it is equal to Y.
Therefore, you are saying the same thing I said in different terms demonstrating that you are like a spoiled brat who is just pi\$\$ed because other kids have the same kind of toys he does.
Sorry, you aint as special as you thought.
Or maybe you are only trying to get my attention.
You decide.
So what exactly are you insinuating with the whole 'x=y' scenario? You started it a few posts back, but is still has no relevance on anything anyone is discussing. Please - elaborate for us laymen. Define X, define Y, state your premise, and write a cute parable to twist the whole 'me-so-sciency' front to your favor. You, are a poser.

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“Me Me Me!”

Since: Jun 14

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#116205 Jun 27, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
I find this question most inteteresting. See, I gave it high ratings, and it keeps me thinking.
However, there is another reason why it is not in conflict with the claim of "if x and y are formed at the same palce and same time: x=y"...
The two cells would not have been formed at the same place.
The division of the cells could not have taken place without a differentiation of the space in which the original cell existed.
In other words: the cell went two different directions during the split, so they were formed in different places.
The God is in the details, I always say.
No not at the same place but at the same time.
Good saying BTW.

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“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#116206 Jun 27, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
In many cases guns are the REASON a homeowner was killed. If a homeowner is wielding a weapon but hesitates to use it (as most average homeowners would) the thief, who is less likely to hesitate, will fire upon the homeowner in fear of being shot himself. If the homeowner had not been armed, he may have survived. So the argument isn't necessarily if guns will make you safer. They CAN make you safer, but in certain circumstances could put you at a greater risk as well. It all boils down to your knowledge of gun usage and safety, and how you're prepared to act.
A shotgun saved my mother from a home intrusion. About a week after my father passed away, my mother was living alone in a very remote house in Connecticut, when one evening an intruder showed up. She heard someone fiddling with the lock on the doorknob. She calmly grabbed a 12-gauge, opened the door and greeted her would-be intruder with a barrel to his forehead. She calmly called the cops and held the man at gunpoint on the floor until they arrived. The Police later told us she did the right thing, the man was known and considered very dangerous. He used the obituaries to find his targets.
Anyway, did that gun make my mother safe? In her case - solid yes, and she would not have hesitated for a second to use it if necessary.
I would say that the gun gave your ability to defend herself and achieve the outcome she wanted. She was still the victim of a burglary, an unsafe situation even if it didn't work out for the burglar. Having the gun gave her a positive way out but didn't eliminate the unsafe condition. That is why I advocate a more detailed and realistic view of having a gun than just a blanket statement that they make you safer. Merely having the gun doesn't prevent the situation you may need the gun for and can actually create or escalate such a situation.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#116207 Jun 27, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
So what exactly are you insinuating with the whole 'x=y' scenario? You started it a few posts back, but is still has no relevance on anything anyone is discussing. Please - elaborate for us laymen. Define X, define Y, state your premise, and write a cute parable to twist the whole 'me-so-sciency' front to your favor. You, are a poser.
Don't forget. He needs to write about smoking his cigarette in some way reminiscent of Clint Eastwood.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#116208 Jun 27, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't carry a gun, I don't feel I need to. But I do not go places where I might or carry lots of cash or valuables with me either. But there could be instances where carrying a gun would be wise, Other people may have these threats or vulnerabilities when they move through errands
and think it less than wise if they are vulnerable. To answer that question I would have to say it's conditional and don't think everyone should be carrying guns around with them all the time.
But there are reasons people should, so the answer is normally no and conditionally yes.
I had to ask because I was confused and you seemed to be taking issue with me for more than just my take on safety.

I don't disagree, but you are supporting my position. Your lack of possession of a gun doesn't make you less safe. Staying out of places that are unsafe do. If you travel in those places they don't magically become safer with a gun. You are still not safe to the point that you might need to use the gun. Much like you take a raincoat out with you when it is raining or going to rain, but the raincoat doesn't prevent the rain.

Generally, I agree with you. If you operate in unsafe areas, then having a gun and the knowledge to use it increases your success at surviving those areas.

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“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#116209 Jun 27, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>I would say that the gun gave your ability to defend herself and achieve the outcome she wanted. She was still the victim of a burglary, an unsafe situation even if it didn't work out for the burglar. Having the gun gave her a positive way out but didn't eliminate the unsafe condition. That is why I advocate a more detailed and realistic view of having a gun than just a blanket statement that they make you safer. Merely having the gun doesn't prevent the situation you may need the gun for and can actually create or escalate such a situation.
Good point, we (the whole family) never considered that my mother needed any weaponry whatsoever,(Alzheimer's and all) but she insisted on keeping the shotgun and a .22 handy to "blast away" squirrels from the bird feeder across the lawn. Poor squirrels, none of us ever figured out why, but she always hated them. She'd pick them off with the rifle if they were in the feeder, and blast them with the shotgun while they were running across the lawn.

It was a pretty hard decision, but after she defended herself from that invasion, we all agreed to keep her armed as long as she was alone.

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“Me Me Me!”

Since: Jun 14

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#116210 Jun 27, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Don't forget. He needs to write about smoking his cigarette in some way reminiscent of Clint Eastwood.
I like the way he does that.

Goes back to licking lollipop.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#116211 Jun 27, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
But the inferences are made based on the assumption that X and Y have things common/ correspond at a certain point.
Therefore you are ariving at a knowledge of X by assuming that it is equal to Y.
Therefore, you are saying the same thing I said in different terms demonstrating that you are like a spoiled brat who is just pi\$\$ed because other kids have the same kind of toys he does.
Sorry, you aint as special as you thought.
Or maybe you are only trying to get my attention.
You decide.
Know, I am saying that you can arrive at a knowledge of X by observation and experiment, assuming that for the sake of your speculation, X is a real thing. We can do the same for Y independently. If a relationship exists that can be determined experimentally. Now, I am not a particle physicist so feel free to try and overwhelm me with the Heisenberg Principle and so forth. But even there you can know aspects of the particles with certainty, just not all the aspects.

It is amusing that you make all those vivid references to your oral fixation and then denigrate others as childish. I don't even think you know how silly and childish it is. That would fit.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

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#116212 Jun 27, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not an assumption: it is the subject under investigation.
<quoted text>
That is impossible.
There could not have been more than one first things.
WHY:
If X, Y and Z begin at exactly the same time, exactly the same place: X = Y = Z.
Because it will not be possible to distinguish between them, not rationally nor physically.
How do you know there weren't two things in different places at the same time?

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#116213 Jun 27, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
Good point, we (the whole family) never considered that my mother needed any weaponry whatsoever,(Alzheimer's and all) but she insisted on keeping the shotgun and a .22 handy to "blast away" squirrels from the bird feeder across the lawn. Poor squirrels, none of us ever figured out why, but she always hated them. She'd pick them off with the rifle if they were in the feeder, and blast them with the shotgun while they were running across the lawn.
It was a pretty hard decision, but after she defended herself from that invasion, we all agreed to keep her armed as long as she was alone.
My family had been robbed several times when I was younger. My father found out the hard way that when you have a gun collection, you don't want to talk loosely about it. Anyway, after he died, I would always made sure to let mom know it was me on nights I came in late. She was a good shot for a city girl.

Those squirrels give me fits too. I don't know what it is. I deal with them in more humorous and less invasive methods. In one effort I rigged a cord to the feeder and would yank it when they got on. I even mixed Vaseline and cayenne pepper and smeared it on the roof of the feeder. It was amusing to watch them deal with that. But of all the things I tried, they seemed to find a way around it. They are fairly intelligent and can learn. Once one of them figures out something, the others seem to pick up on it. For a while the family had great amusement with my efforts to try ever more imaginative ways to thwart them. I had a little hobby going, then we moved and I haven't set a feeder up here yet. I have actually come to appreciate squirrels even more than I did, but I still get fired up when they abuse the feeder and I really don't know why that is.

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“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

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#116214 Jun 27, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
It is not an assumption: it is the subject under investigation.
And the first thing that you need to establish is that the subject actually exists.
You are the one that goes off on equality being the way to figure out everything. Sorry, but that is simply not the case. Equality is simply a formal relation in a formal system. To get it to do anything you need information about the real world. That is obtained by observation.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#116215 Jun 27, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
No it is a simple fact.
When ever you leave direct relationships (of the nature X=Y), you approach the realm of PROBABILITY.
In other words, if you cannot say that X=Y, you cannot say anything about neither X nor Y with certainty.
And whenever you approach the realms of probability; my guess is as good as yours.
But I am concerned with certainty.
Wrong.*everything* about the real world is a matter of probabilities. Even the idea that there *is* a real world has a probability that is not pure certainty.

And you are wrong. Probabilities don't mean the same as a pure guess. They can be measured, compared, and evaluated.

Certainty isn't something you will get, not even in math or logic. At best, you can determine which deductions can come from which assumptions and which rules of inference. But at some point you have to assume rules of inference. And x=x is simply not enough to get anywhere. Nor is x=y implying that y=x, or x=y and y=z implying that x=z.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#116216 Jun 27, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
Good point, we (the whole family) never considered that my mother needed any weaponry whatsoever,(Alzheimer's and all) but she insisted on keeping the shotgun and a .22 handy to "blast away" squirrels from the bird feeder across the lawn. Poor squirrels, none of us ever figured out why, but she always hated them. She'd pick them off with the rifle if they were in the feeder, and blast them with the shotgun while they were running across the lawn.
It was a pretty hard decision, but after she defended herself from that invasion, we all agreed to keep her armed as long as she was alone.
My mother was diagnosed with Alzheimer's a few years before she passed away. It wasn't until the last couple of years that she was too far gone to carry on with her day to day life. Fortunately, she wasn't in a situation where she needed a gun, but I don't doubt she could still use one. A fact not lost on me when I locked all of hers away where she couldn't get to them.

It is tough when in later years you have to become the parent.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#116217 Jun 27, 2014
Cali-girl20 wrote:
<quoted text>
I like the way he does that.
Goes back to licking lollipop.
It is part of his shtick. He does it intentionally to convey his arrogance and disdain. It is amusing. I like it too. I have no end of fun with it. Certainly not what he intended to come of it anyway.

I like lollipops.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#116218 Jun 27, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
My argument is concerned with what is infinite, NOT that which is finite.
How do you know there is anything that is infinite?
The only time the finite is relevant is whenever it helps to identify or describe the finite.
Show me where something that cannot change has ever been created or destroyed.
If there is never a change; can you say that creation or destruction has taken place?
Once again, you are getting the implications the wrong direction. My claim is that it is possible to be changing and still not created.
So would the universe not be the first (and last) thing, since it is the only?
That is one possibility, yes.
It is nothing like claiming there is a largest integer in any direction.
You assume there is a start. Why do you assume that?

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#116219 Jun 27, 2014
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you know there weren't two things in different places at the same time?
I was wondering that myself.

If I understand this correctly, he is arguing that there is no logical way to have two first things? Or in his view two first gods?

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#116220 Jun 27, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
...You stand behind other's quotes, you post absurd pseudo-knowledge, you lose yourself in abstract thought...
By whose standards do you make those claims; those of a dumb ass or an obstinate mule?

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#116221 Jun 27, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>No, it isn't. Just by his question, it is clear he has good vision. He can really see shit when it is there.
His head is full of shit so he will naturally interpret everything to be shit.

And you are in agreement with him, so both your heads are full of shit; like crabs.

*lights cigarette and spits on the ground*

“Me Me Me!”

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#116222 Jun 27, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>It is part of his shtick. He does it intentionally to convey his arrogance and disdain. It is amusing. I like it too. I have no end of fun with it. Certainly not what he intended to come of it anyway.
I like lollipops.
Silly rabbit! Lollipops are for kids!:D

“Me Me Me!”

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#116223 Jun 27, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>My family had been robbed several times when I was younger. My father found out the hard way that when you have a gun collection, you don't want to talk loosely about it. Anyway, after he died, I would always made sure to let mom know it was me on nights I came in late. She was a good shot for a city girl.
Those squirrels give me fits too. I don't know what it is. I deal with them in more humorous and less invasive methods. In one effort I rigged a cord to the feeder and would yank it when they got on. I even mixed Vaseline and cayenne pepper and smeared it on the roof of the feeder. It was amusing to watch them deal with that. But of all the things I tried, they seemed to find a way around it. They are fairly intelligent and can learn. Once one of them figures out something, the others seem to pick up on it. For a while the family had great amusement with my efforts to try ever more imaginative ways to thwart them. I had a little hobby going, then we moved and I haven't set a feeder up here yet. I have actually come to appreciate squirrels even more than I did, but I still get fired up when they abuse the feeder and I really don't know why that is.
Have you ever Googled squirrel obstacle course? I'm thinking of building one.

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