Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 222260 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

Mugwump

Coa, UK

#116138 Jun 27, 2014
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> And tell me how many people want to?
And yet no one can help that. This shows that we don't know everything.
Above is true - but so what ?

It has no bearing on evolution's validity or thesism

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#116139 Jun 27, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
You're asking a stupid question, do forks make you eat better? NO Do the possession of forks enhance your ability to eat better? YES
Guns give you the ability to fire projectiles. do guns make you safer? NO
Do guns enable you to defend yourself on equal term. YES
Q. If grandmother was threatened by a intruder man with a gun, would she be able to defend herself?
A. If she had a gun.
In many cases guns are the REASON a homeowner was killed. If a homeowner is wielding a weapon but hesitates to use it (as most average homeowners would) the thief, who is less likely to hesitate, will fire upon the homeowner in fear of being shot himself. If the homeowner had not been armed, he may have survived. So the argument isn't necessarily if guns will make you safer. They CAN make you safer, but in certain circumstances could put you at a greater risk as well. It all boils down to your knowledge of gun usage and safety, and how you're prepared to act.

A shotgun saved my mother from a home intrusion. About a week after my father passed away, my mother was living alone in a very remote house in Connecticut, when one evening an intruder showed up. She heard someone fiddling with the lock on the doorknob. She calmly grabbed a 12-gauge, opened the door and greeted her would-be intruder with a barrel to his forehead. She calmly called the cops and held the man at gunpoint on the floor until they arrived. The Police later told us she did the right thing, the man was known and considered very dangerous. He used the obituaries to find his targets.

Anyway, did that gun make my mother safe? In her case - solid yes, and she would not have hesitated for a second to use it if necessary.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#116140 Jun 27, 2014
Mugwump wrote:
<quoted text>
Above is true - but so what ?
It has no bearing on evolution's validity or thesism
Your opinion.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#116141 Jun 27, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>I knew responding to your original post had a risk of offending you since that doesn't seem to take much. However, I believe it is important to correct a person when they are wrong and offer them a more informed view. Especially on an issue like this. Saying gun possession makes you safer gives people a false sense of security and can actually make them less safe.
You have yet to show me how possessing a gun causes you to be inherently safer. How does it reduce your risk of being a target of violent crime beyond the minor deterrence value? If no one knows you have a gun, it isn't of any deterrence value at all.
I note how easily you volunteered me to be shot at but didn't step up yourself. Like I said, it doesn't seem to take much to offend you. However, were we able to carry out such and experiment, I would be willing to be the target and not volunteer another for any reason. The vest would in fact reduce my loss. That is the point of such a thing. However, I am less safe because a stranger with a short temper is shooting at me. To top it off, I don't have a gun so this doesn't show how a gun would make me safer. I would be safer not being in the presence of a gun and avoiding the test. It is safer not to be shot at than to be shot at with a bullet proof vest or body armor on. They can fail.
Very good point.
Mugwump

UK

#116142 Jun 27, 2014
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Your opinion.
Then , present a coherent argument why the fact that things die has any bearing on evolution or creation

Thus far you are just babbling inanely and making no point

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#116143 Jun 27, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>
1. I am a gun owner. I raised by a gun collecting marine who grew up using guns to put food on the table. He made sure his children knew about guns and gun safety. I do not think we should remove guns from private hands.
2. I support the 2nd Amendment. Always have. Can't see why I wouldn't continue to do so. It provides the states the right to a militia and the private citizen the right to own them and possess them as well.
3. The primary person responsible for my safety and security is me. There are other people and organizations out there with my safety in mind, but I have the most personal stake and responsibility. If I think a gun is what need to ensure my ability to defend myself, then that is what I choose and I have. But just owning a gun doesn't satisfy what is needed to carry out that defense and you still could get hurt or killed. It is a choice and shouldn't be taken lightly.
4. If you are a person legally able to purchase a gun, there isn't any reason preventing you from doing it. I imagine my previous responses gave that position away.
I thought I might elaborate since I was beginning to wonder if our discussion about the safety of firearm ownership was being mistakenly seen as a political position from my end. The only thing I am concerned about is that just making a blanket statement about safety will leave a potential purchaser unaware of the full ramifications of gun ownership.
If you want a gun, buy one. If you don't, then don't.
I will close with this. According to an analysis of the available data, if you have children, they are far more likely to be injured or killed if you own a pool than if you own a gun.
I grew up in a house full of guns. Just about every type of gun. My father was a cop, and many of the guns that were to be destroyed at the barracks somehow may have found a way to our home. I received my first gun on my seventh birthday (a little 4-10 shotgun). When I moved away, I kept only 2 guns in my home, a short rifle and a handgun. But after my son was born, there were no guns in my home ever again. I know how dangerous they are around kids. A gun owner will say "I hide my guns". Your kid knows where they are. "But I lock them in a gun closet". Your kid knows where the key is. "But I teach my child gun safety". He's still going to play with them when he can. Being a gun owner is a whole new level of responsibility, and if people are OK with having them, then it's their choice. Just please don't let it impact my family.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#116144 Jun 27, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Spoons were never designed and manufactured specifically to kill and injure people, which guns were.
And you have to admit that there are far more gun injuries than spoon injuries despite the fact that there are several times more spoons than guns.
"Attention! I have a spoon, and I know how to use it!"

I think his point was that the spoon doesn't make you fat, it's the person holding it and the lack of willpower that makes you fat. The spoon is an innocent tool. You could use the same argument about a gun. But I agree, Death by Spoon would be a bad way to go.

“Up with which, I will not put”

Since: Jul 08

Sao Paulo

#116145 Jun 27, 2014
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Yes, are that are possible factors that can lead to death.
But death can still occur without the above causes listed by you. Do you agree?
I think that's his point Charles...

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#116146 Jun 27, 2014
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Your opinion. All these does not tell us how the universe came.
So, it is your "opinion" that when caught, change the subject.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#116147 Jun 27, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Cali I have to give you a "thumbs up!" You are hear talking about God and the bible and not really being bashed or called a retard creatard for ir like they would do anyone else. It seems for the males in the room you have memorized them with your name and pink hair. lol
What would be the point of mentioning that Barbie (tm) has nothing but air between her ears? Ooops - I just mentioned it, didn't I?

“If it ain't broke don't fix it”

Level 9

Since: Jul 09

Arcadia, LA.

#116148 Jun 27, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
What is so funny is that despite the fact that she is fairly conciliatory and does not verbally abuse males, canít say the same on her attitude to women,(could be a jealousy thing, I donít really know). Her avatar does seem to have a profound effect on some males, rather like some guy calling a chat line and asking what the girl with the sexy voice is wearing when the girl is an overweight pensioner in thick thermals and woolly jumpers
You sure it's the avatar that is causing that effect? Personally, I find her responses (assuming the she IS indeed a she), quite humorous; not exactly abusive, but containing biting wit.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#116149 Jun 27, 2014
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Gibberish.
In summary, we die, because we are limited.
Again, without the man, the woman can not be pregnant.
Lastly, the universe never came by accident. Period.
Every living thing dies. If it didn't, the Earth's space and resources would have been consumed 3 billion years ago. Just as with male superiority, immortality is just the opium pipe dream of your religion.
Your statement "the universe never came by accident" is in the context of someone who sees angels under every toadstool. Your frame of reference is as flawed as a square tricycle tire.

“When you treat people as they ”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#116150 Jun 27, 2014
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> The garbage again.
So tell me why will the cells have to deteriorate, when we have the whole knowledge of everything?
Just shut up and think.
Again, no garbage but facts that you refuse to see or even acknowledge. Hiding from the evidence does not make the evidence go away, it just makes you look even more stupid. You have nothing but incredulity and a heavy right foot and neither are worth a toss in the real world

Where do you get the idea that we have the whole knowledge of everything? And why do you assume that such knowledge will make life immortal?

Science and nutrition have increased the life span of the average human being from biblical times of about 24 years to the current 78+ years. No god magic involved

Please take your brain out of neutral before engaging mouth and vomiting ignorance

“When you treat people as they ”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#116151 Jun 27, 2014
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Since we know everything, why must we allow the cells to deteriorate to the point of death?
Since you claim god dunit wiv magic why canít cells be eternal?

“When you treat people as they ”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#116152 Jun 27, 2014
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Can a woman gets pregnant without the man?
Did you have your children without your husband?
God is real, the universe did not came up just like that, it was made. Get that!
Can a man give birth to life

Can a man produce a child without a women

Prove god is real and you will have one convert in me

Prove the universe was made by god magic and you will have one convert in m,e

Until then I will stick with the known facts

Get what, your wet dreams? Donít be stupid, use a hanky

“When you treat people as they ”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#116153 Jun 27, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
"Attention! I have a spoon, and I know how to use it!"
I think his point was that the spoon doesn't make you fat, it's the person holding it and the lack of willpower that makes you fat. The spoon is an innocent tool. You could use the same argument about a gun. But I agree, Death by Spoon would be a bad way to go.
The spoon was not designed to kill, the gun was. Sure itís just a tool like other tools but most tools were not designed to kill although some may be used that way

“When you treat people as they ”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#116154 Jun 27, 2014
dragoon70056 wrote:
<quoted text>
You sure it's the avatar that is causing that effect? Personally, I find her responses (assuming the she IS indeed a she), quite humorous; not exactly abusive, but containing biting wit.
Nope not sure, just an assumption based on experience

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#116155 Jun 27, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
What is so funny is that despite the fact that she is fairly conciliatory and does not verbally abuse males, canít say the same on her attitude to women,(could be a jealousy thing, I donít really know). Her avatar does seem to have a profound effect on some males, rather like some guy calling a chat line and asking what the girl with the sexy voice is wearing when the girl is an overweight pensioner in thick thermals and woolly jumpers
That's not true Svetlana is a beautiful 20 year old that would have been a model if it wasn't for being poor and growing up under a repressive government. Wait a minute. She does know an lot about England in the 60's. No. She is tall, blonde and...she does have a rather deep voice for a young woman. No...her back story is solid...Noooooooo!

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#116156 Jun 27, 2014
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Gibberish.
In summary, we die, because we are limited.
No, we die because we are biological organisms. The causes of death are wide ranging, but old age seems to come about because of shortening of teleomeres.
Again, without the man, the woman can not be pregnant.
That is true for humans, but for many other animals it is false. There are species of lizards, for example, that are only female.
Lastly, the universe never came by accident. Period.
I am always amused by the way certain people use the words 'accident, random, caused' and a few others. They seem to think that these are all opposites of the word 'designed'.

Here is how I take it:
1. Accident implies, to me, an intention that one thing happens when another does happen. A car accident happens when we crash while intending not to. As such, to say something is 'accidental' means there is an intention opposed to the event.

So, I would agree that the universe was not 'accidental' since I don't believe there was any intelligence intending anything at all. Similarly, the orbits of the planets are neither intended nor accidental.

2. Random implies, to me, an inability to determine the outcome from the initial conditions. It does not mean all outcomes are equally likely. But, for example, the action of gravity is not random. Quantum mechanics says that some types of events are truly random-we cannot predict exactly which of several outcomes will occur in any situation, but we *can* predict the probabilities of the different outcomes. So there is predictability even in randomness.

3. To be caused, to me, means that when certain conditions happen, the laws of physics lead to the specific result being discussed. So, the gravity of the sun causes the planets to move in elliptical orbits (approximately). In particular, though, causality requires that time exist and that there be laws of physics (at least in some sense). Also, if the laws of physics do NOT determine a specific outcome, then that outcome was not 'caused'. So quantum mechanics is NOT a causal description of things.

4. Designed, to me, means there is an intelligent agent that specifically intends the given outcome and has used the laws of physics to make it come about.

Notice that being caused does not imply that there was a designer. The opposite of accidental is NOT to be designed. There are 'random' events in the universe and not everything has a cause.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#116157 Jun 27, 2014
Cali-girl20 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I do think science has a political agenda. Where do you think they get most of their funding? Government is in the schools, they fund them.
Silly.

Throwing money at science that doesn't work only loses you money. That's the last thing the Government wants. Science funding makes profit because science works. It gives you new medicines you can sell to pharmaceutical companies. It gives you technology you can make computers with. It finds you fossils you can sell to museums. It finds you oil you can put in cars.

The political agenda to do with science is AGAINST science, because the ignorant want to get science out of schools because they stupidly believe science is atheism, and they also want to illegally teach their religion in public schools. But if you notice that when you get a right-wing government asking for votes, they pander to the fundies and promise them more Yay Jesus, but then don't bother when they finally get in power. Because they don't want to lose money either. But they'll let them get away with violating the Constitution in the meantime because that's their voting base.

Thing is about science is that it works no matter who you vote for or what religious beliefs you have.

That's why it's pretty silly to argue against science.

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