Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#115578 Jun 24, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
So if you dont know what "God" is; how will you know whether or not the evidence I present to you is relevant or valid?
<quoted text>
So in other words you have no clue whatsoever?
And you are merely resisting because... you like it?
No, we have no clue because you won't tell us. And we are resisting because... you will not tell us.

Once you provide objective definitions and provide evidence then we have a basis from which to form tests.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#115579 Jun 24, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
So if you dont know what "God" is; how will you know whether or not the evidence I present to you is relevant or valid?
If *you* give us a definition and show how some criteria are relevant for that definition, we can at least agree that the criteria are met or not. It really isn't that complicated. You get to give the definition that suits you. Then you can present evidence and show how that evidence is relevant for that definition.

I'll give you an example. I can define a particle to be a Higgs boson if it is weakly interacting, not strongly interacting, and decays according to certain rules. I present evidence that there *is* a particle that is weakly interacting, not strongly interacting, and decays by the rules I set out. That is how I prove that a Higg's boson exists.

On the other hand, simply defining something doesn't prove it exists. I could define Z to be the largest positive integer. I could even prove that Z+1<=Z using that definition. But the fact is that Z does not exist. There is no largest positive integer.

So, what is the definition *you* propose for the concept of God? What criteria do *you* think serve to prove the existence of God *using that definition*? And what evidence do you have that such criteria are met by an existing entity?
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#115580 Jun 24, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
What would be the LOGICAL implications of that?
The logical implication is that your god is nothing more than an already known scientific phenomena.

Or that your generalisation of the word "power" was, uh, too general.
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
Oh, I forgot, it is evidence you are concerned with; not logic nor reason.
But the conclusion or fact which has no logic or is unreasonable has no value; regardless of the evidence presented.
So you keep claiming. But your claims are still basis. You appear to have no interest in demonstrating otherwise.
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
You have effectively demonstrated it.
Good job.
You're right I have demonstrated quite effectively that your posts are nothing more than hot air.
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#115581 Jun 24, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
You decide.
Dont you have access to a dictionary?
Cant you read?
I can read.

However it's up to you to back up your claims by providing the specific definitions you're referring to and then provide evidence of them.

But as usual, when provided with the opportunity to dazzle everybody with your Divine Knowledge, you back away and expect everyone else to do your homework. Why's that then, my porcine pal?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#115582 Jun 24, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
What would be the LOGICAL implications of that?
That God obeys Ohm's law? What are you attempting to say? What do *you* think is the logical consequence of that? And how is that relevant?
Oh, I forgot, it is evidence you are concerned with; not logic nor reason.
But the conclusion or fact which has no logic or is unreasonable has no value; regardless of the evidence presented.
Which is why you are in so much trouble. Nothing you have said has any actual *logic*. You make a few vague statements, and then ask everyone else what *they* think.
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#115583 Jun 24, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
Well, the nature of the "almighty" (while "almighty" describes that which demonstrates total control) is such that the only accurate way to "test", observe and identify if is by logic; and I will try to explain why
Logic is dependant upon unprovable axioms unless compared with reality. You apparently don't want a comparison with reality and prefer to stick to pure logic arguments.

It didn't work for Aristotle and it ain't working for you now.
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
1. It is not practical to come into physical contact with anything that is almighty: that which controls power is a power by itself, and if you cant approach the surface of the sun... the physical presence of the almighty is probably something you should avoid.
So power can cause damage.

Despite this we can still quantify and even make practical use of them. Beyond placebo, your "power" hasn't been shown to exist.
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
2. You cannot know that anything is almighty until you observe that it behaves with equality/equity: because whatever is almighty must be equally powerful over all things at all times.
Equality of what as compared with what? "EQUALITY THEREFORE GOD!" is a senseless claim, but this seems to be the only one you have.
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
3. Whereas power is ability, the almighty be most effective and the most effective requires the least input: therefore the power which is almighty must be active in the thought processes, to the extent where our ability to think is our greatest tool and the major factor determining our progress...
Progress to what? To finding the existence of "God"? Are you saying that all that is necessary is to believe in God and we will find it? Because that's the same old circular reasoning used by most fundies, which just so happens to be the LEAST thought out.

Unfortunately this leads to inequality. Those who claimed to have found God and those who haven't. Inequality falsifies equality, ergo your God does not exist. QED.

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#115584 Jun 24, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
I have never heard of evolutionary processes being anthropomorphized unless you are radically stretching the term to mean the middle of the road religious who claim that God might be behind it.
Beyond that, I'm not even sure how it would work... would you care to provide an example?
"anthropomorphism - The ascription of a human attribute or personality to anything impersonal or irrational."[http://www.t hefreedictionary.com/Anthropom orphised]

So explain the term "selection" when mentioning "natural selection".

"se·lect (s-lkt)
v. se·lect·ed, se·lect·ing, se·lects
v.tr.
To take as a choice from among several; pick out.
v.intr.
To make a choice or selection.
adj.
1. Singled out in preference; chosen: a select few.
2. Of special quality or value; choice: select peaches.
3. Of or relating to a lean grade of beef.
4. Careful or refined in making selections; discriminating.
n.
1. One that is chosen in preference to others or because of special value.
2.(used with a pl. verb) Chosen or preferred items or people considered as a group. Often used with the."

Which one of those definitions has anything to do with the forces of nature in and of themselves?

Is any force of nature rational or human or intelligent that is should be able to "select"?
ChromiuMan wrote:
Otherwise, allow me to summarize your post.
"Oh yeah? Well, uh... umm Oh, yeah? Well, if I don't know what I'm talking about nobody else needs to either, so stop responding."
When a fly sees the text and prints on the display of the PC, I'm sure it appeals to them in particulars ways that are different from the way it appeals to me too.

*leans back in chair and puffs cigarette*
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#115585 Jun 24, 2014
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> You are ranting again. Did the universe came by accident?
Yeah, Odin farted after a dodgy curry.

Prove me wrong.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#115586 Jun 24, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
So in other words you have no clue whatsoever?
And you are merely resisting because... you like it?
No, I have no clue whatsoever why you think that what you say has any meaning at all. i am not 'resisting'. I am attempting to figure out some meaning in your statements. So far, no meaning has been apparent except rather vague claims about power.
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#115587 Jun 24, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that your criteria?
I can twist the lid off of a jar of pickles.(Most of the time anyway...) This is an "effect of power". Does this classify me as 'Almighty'?
There is nothing in his posts so far to suggest otherwise.(shrug)

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#115588 Jun 24, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
No, we have no clue because you won't tell us. And we are resisting because... you will not tell us.
Once you provide objective definitions and provide evidence then we have a basis from which to form tests.
Dirt is evidence that proves that God exists.

Happy now?
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#115589 Jun 24, 2014
deutscher Stolz wrote:
<quoted text>
I have to know my enemies.
It is a shame that you don't recognize what the Americans did to our people.
It is also typical for Americans that they called me a Nazi. Why does Nazism depend on the nationality? There are more Nazis in America than in Germany. I am a German patriot but I am not a Nazi. Nazis hate Germany. They are our enemies as well.
So you're going to the US to learn about your enemies?

So then this will help you later when you decide to fight your enemies?

Well in that case I suggest going to the Bible Belt, and going to every creationist church and meeting they offer, in order to better understand the workings of fundamentalism.

For that appears to be the very skill you wish to develop...
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#115590 Jun 24, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand.
I agree.
So God is a humanoid primate?
FREE SERVANT

Duluth, GA

#115591 Jun 24, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
No, plants do not know things. Doesn't matter what arrangement the circuitry is. If you don't have the circuitry for brains, or at the very least a basic nervous system, you don't know shit.
The circuitry is in the root system for plants.

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#115592 Jun 24, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
The logical implication is that your god is nothing more than an already known scientific phenomena.
And what if God is an already known scientific phenomena?

What are the logical implications of that?
The Dude wrote:
Or that your generalisation of the word "power" was, uh, too general...
But that which is general relates to a specific thing.

So whats your point?

Nevertheless, is it possible to test for Truth?
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#115593 Jun 24, 2014
JM_Brazil wrote:
<quoted text>
Could it be a kitten? A happy kitten?
I don't think there are many happy kittens around here...

:-(

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#115594 Jun 24, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
Dirt is evidence that proves that God exists.
Happy now?
If you have dirt in your mind, you must have a dirty mind.
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#115595 Jun 24, 2014
MikeF wrote:
Could very well be!!
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#115596 Jun 24, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>I am still getting a laugh about a guy that claims God is not anthropomorphic, but rather energy of some sort, yet still names himself the Hand of God. You gotta love it when they give you free stuff.
Yup. He even agreed with Chuck about us being made in God's image.
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#115597 Jun 24, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
Plants have life cycles just like animal's to a certain extent, in that the systems which sustain life will use certain information to make adjustments that are required to continue life functions. The information is retained and directed through circuitry which makes this possible.
And we still don't care Mikey.

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