Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

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#115713 Jun 24, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>That is Pascal's Wager. It is better to believe in God than not, because if you do and God exists, you benefit. If you do and God does not exist, then you are not harmed by believing anyway.
Believing in something that makes you a better person "real or not" is good for everyone is it not?

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#115714 Jun 24, 2014
Cali-girl20 wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol. You're nuts! I like the way you put things.
Thanks. I am nuts, but not very dangerous.

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#115715 Jun 24, 2014
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Many higher animals have the ability to 'learn'.
Humans are no different. The subjects we compel ourselves to learn might be a tad more sophisticated, but learning is learning.
I never said animals or anyone doesn't have the ability to learn. I said where did that ability come from?

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#115716 Jun 24, 2014
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Many higher animals have the ability to 'learn'.
Humans are no different. The subjects we compel ourselves to learn might be a tad more sophisticated, but learning is learning.
Some insects have the ability to learn in a very rudimentary way. Insects aren't known for their brains. From that perspective, even rudimentary is impressive.

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#115717 Jun 24, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly. Better safe than sorry. No harm in living that way.
I suppose some might see it as fence sitting and it may be, but from the standpoint that it may lead people to behave better would be beneficial.

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#115718 Jun 24, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Thanks. I am nuts, but not very dangerous.
Well you did make me spit out my coffee so you may be a little dangerous.:D

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#115719 Jun 24, 2014
Cali-girl20 wrote:
<quoted text>
Believing in something that makes you a better person "real or not" is good for everyone is it not?
If you believe in something positive yes, but don't forget the Nazis believed in what they were doing.

As I said to Replay, believing in something that leads people to behave in a positive manner would be beneficial. By positive I would say, Christ-like in ones behavior to others.

Now I am discussing religion on a science forum. I will have to forgive myself this time.

Since: Nov 07

St. James, NY

#115720 Jun 24, 2014
Oh please wrote:
It is obvious from all these posts that Evolution went backwards.
Humans are a virus that need to be stopped on this planet.
It was a terrible experiment that went wrong when primates started to make tools. It should have stopped right there and gone no further. Because once humans started making weapons and using fire, it all went downhill from there.
Now it is just a matter of time before humans end it all, and arguing about evolution vs creationism will no longer be necessary.
It will be obvious who the dumbshits are that ruined a beautiful blue planet.
You really don't see the irony in making an anti-technology rant on the internet?

Since: Nov 07

St. James, NY

#115721 Jun 24, 2014
Cali-girl20 wrote:
<quoted text>
Good point.
I was away for a bit so not sure if you answered this and it got swept up:

I am curious, are you suggesting that since science has been wrong in the past we should ignore or set aside current theories like Evolution because there is a chance it might be proved wrong in the future?

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#115722 Jun 24, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Natural laws also mean morals. Be more specific.
Physical laws? You mean Laws of physics> There is a difference just so you you know.
The fundamental laws cover - Gravity, Electromagnetism, Weak Interaction and Strong Interaction
Why do you think God would have to be reduced to a set of physical properties we see in matter and energy? God could be the one that set those properties..
Guessing that god created natural laws is the same as guessing that god created the universe.
You are plagued by the same problems, no indicator exists that this is so and you still have the problem of what created god. The physical laws exist, we have identified them... g/l with the hypotheses they were created by an invisible man. We know the universe exists and these are the physical properties of it, aka: the conditions that flow naturally from the advent of time/matter/energy/space we don't need a god as explanation , but if you must believe it's ok with me.
Just don't try to harass your physics teacher that god is the cause of the Chandrasekhar limit, he may reach that point himself.

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#115723 Jun 24, 2014
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Genetics, study and the famous quote ...
1% inspiration and 99% perspiration I fail to see divine intervention.
It's ok to me if you believe there was a magic daddy helping you out, but to me that idea is just silly.
Well thank you. To me you living without a greater purpose then to have a brain, be self absorbed and angry is silly and sad.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#115724 Jun 24, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said animals or anyone doesn't have the ability to learn. I said where did that ability come from?
Ah. My bad.

Very complicated ... but good question.

I would begin here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning

And make use of the references at the bottom of the article.

Since: Nov 07

St. James, NY

#115725 Jun 24, 2014
wondering wrote:
it amazes me that with all the peer reviewed scientific papers that are available to read and study on the internet that so many here use their opinion, wiki and youtube for evidence of their claim (which none are evidence) then wonder why people are so un/under-educated.
Most people link to YouTube for humorous reasons or to hear people actually discussing an issue (debates are good for that). Wikipedia, even given its flaws, provides nice summaries that cites sources, so if you feel the wiki article itself has issues you can see exactly what sources they cited. I've read the talk pages of wiki articles and they take objectivity, verifiability and no original research pretty seriously over there.

If I were a High School teacher I wouldn't let a student use Wiki as a primary source for a research paper, but for an informal internet debate forum it does the job just fine.

Would you prefer we linked directly to scientific studies, papers and dissertations that maybe 4 or 5 people on this forum could probably understand?

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#115726 Jun 24, 2014
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>If you believe in something positive yes, but don't forget the Nazis believed in what they were doing.
As I said to Replay, believing in something that leads people to behave in a positive manner would be beneficial. By positive I would say, Christ-like in ones behavior to others.
Now I am discussing religion on a science forum. I will have to forgive myself this time.
You are very right. All things can be used in a bad way. There have been many bad things done in the name of God to. That's why I'm not a bible thumper. I don't even pretend to know what was meant in most of it.

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#115727 Jun 24, 2014
Discord wrote:
<quoted text>
I was away for a bit so not sure if you answered this and it got swept up:
I am curious, are you suggesting that since science has been wrong in the past we should ignore or set aside current theories like Evolution because there is a chance it might be proved wrong in the future?
Not at all. I've said from the very beginning that I believe both science and creation are correct and both are flawed.

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#115728 Jun 24, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said animals or anyone doesn't have the ability to learn. I said where did that ability come from?
That questions is the key to a writhing can of worms. I am thinking of learning as the ability to discern new information and apply it to present and future situations. Learning ability varies among different organisms. I don't know enough of the field to apply proper definitions or where to delineate separation between simple response to stimuli, instinct, behavior, intelligence and learning to the varying degrees with which it is expressed. Taking an educated guess, I would say that learning evolved along with increasingly complex nervous systems and sensory organs. Learning and intelligence have a tremendous fitness value as indicated by the human population. It can get you all the good stuff and some of the bad too if you are so inclined.

Starting with simple instincts, responses to stimuli and increasing ability to observe the environment is probably where it started. Learning would give an edge leading to greater fitness and any mutations that enhanced learning would quickly become fixed in populations.

I have often wondered how much human intelligence and learning are required for a base level of survival. Some apparently very unintelligent people manage to survive and procreate quite well. And some very intelligent populations live rather simple, agrarian or nomadic lifestyles.

Anyway, we can literally devote an entire thread to this subject.

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#115729 Jun 24, 2014
Cali-girl20 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well you did make me spit out my coffee so you may be a little dangerous.:D
Ok, maybe a little.

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#115730 Jun 24, 2014
Cali-girl20 wrote:
<quoted text>
You are very right. All things can be used in a bad way. There have been many bad things done in the name of God to. That's why I'm not a bible thumper. I don't even pretend to know what was meant in most of it.
I think wisdom is knowing to look for the line between the two, let alone where it might be. That and knowing there are some things best left alone.

I think the Bible is a great book if viewed allegorically. Trying to read it literally or use it as a science text is pointless and counterproductive.

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#115731 Jun 24, 2014
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah. My bad.
Very complicated ... but good question.
I would begin here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning
And make use of the references at the bottom of the article.
I argued with a guy once that said I was wrong to think dogs can learn. He said they don't learn, it is routine. I actually laughed out loud and Said so they "learned" a routine? He said no, I mean they only do it because of repeatably doing it. I said yes a routine. they learned a routine right? He left the conversation.

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#115732 Jun 24, 2014
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah. My bad.
Very complicated ... but good question.
I would begin here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning
And make use of the references at the bottom of the article.
I gave a response to Replay's post, but it barely does justice to what is known on the subject, let alone the questions we have yet to find answers for. Very complicated.

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