Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 204729 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“When you treat people as they ”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#115783 Jun 25, 2014
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> You are the one using the magic here. Nothing can exist without first passing through another process. The universe can never be an exception. And let me tell you, it is beyond science.
Did you came into this world on your own or through your parents or ancestors?
Wrong, your misunderstanding of first scientific principals is typical of the deliberate ignorance you display

First, the laws of causality that you require to make you claim (despite you denying such laws were required by your god – read your babble) did not exist until after the event therefore are not relevant to the event itself.

Second, there is nothing to say there was not a previous process; certainly in the quantum realm this is accepted. Only godbots think it came from nothing by god magic – read your babble

Wrong, it is not beyond science, because science is daring to investigate it and has been for several years, much to the chagrin of godbots like you.

WTF has genetics got to do with the start of the universe? Your deliberate obfuscation is noted, I really do believe that if you spent less time looking for ways out you could actually being to educate yourself.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#115784 Jun 25, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Really!!!! How did man teach himself the ability to learn? You seem to think the ability to learn doesn't have to be present to learn. If you can't learn then you can't teach.
I see you skipped this. "So all the laws of the universe, all the elements etc etc that are used in science are man made?"
Learning is part of howmany living things deal with the environment: they collect information through the senses and act based on that information. Conditioning of reflexes is the first stage in learning.

By the time humans came around, animals had been learning about their environment for millions of years. Some had even been making tools.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#115785 Jun 25, 2014
[QUOTE who="deutscher
Stolz"]<quoted text>
Just for saving them from the Brits.
At the end we destroyed the British empire with WW1 and WW2. Therefore
many countries got back their freedom and therefore Brits hate us.
The world should be thankful for this.
We also freed Europe from the Romes, from the French in the 19th century
and from the Russians. The other European countries should be thankful
for this.
[/QUOTE] I love that patriotic spirit. But why was the scramble for Africa decided in your country?
You would as well rejected that, but you did not. And again, you even went as far as conquering the Camerouns and Angola, etc. What about that?
Just try the word, " honesty ".

“When you treat people as they ”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#115786 Jun 25, 2014
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> So what is your justification, for concluding that you are right, when you know you are not?
Like i said the universe did not existed just like that without a cause. Because other things did not came into form like that.
I know I am right to 10^-35 of a second after the event, before that who knows, not even you but that never stops you from guessing

My justification is facts, and they are proven to be correct up to the point where knowledge of measurement and observation breaks down and not even you knows past that point, but that never stops you from guessing

Like I have said often, your deliberate misunderstanding of the fundamental scientific laws and cosmology are no excuse for your deliberate ignorance.

So funny how you say god dunitwiv magic out of nothing – read your babble – but deny the same prerogative to anything other than your god – do you actually realise how lame that sounds?

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#115787 Jun 25, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>Especially the Jews should be very grateful for being annihilated by the Endlösung.
The Germans didn't destroy the British empire.
The British empire destroyed Germany. Twice. In WWI and WWII, subsequently.
For the benefit of mankind.
It saved us from the horror cabinet of Nazism.
Sieg Heil.

Not only the Brits hate Germans.
After your Pups and Turds everyone on this forum is already beginning to scratch behind their ears and throttling their noses because of the rotten stink you produce by your Pups and Turds.
Sieg Heil.
And we Americans 'liberated' several hundred thousand Africans, providing them with greater opportunity here today.

Lets also not forget about Native Americans. They have casinos! Many sports teams across the country are named after them, too!

[/SARCASM]

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#115788 Jun 25, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
By your logic lets take the BBT which says the universe expanded from a singularity correct? Then there is still the problem of what created the singularity? And before that and before that.
You see if someone gave an explanation of what created god, then it would lead to what created that thing that created God, and so on. It all can be a never ending game of words.
The problem is that a 'singularity' is not an object. It is more a description that some aspect of the system is going beyond our ability to model it effectively. In general relativity, when we model the universe as a whole, it turns out from the mathematics that the density has to go to infinity as some time in the past. That is the singularity.

On the other hand, we don't believe that GR is the full story. We know it doesn't include quantum mechanics, and it turns out that the pressures and densities involved in the early universe require QM to understand--we need a quantum theory of gravity. But we don't have such.

That said, there are some basic possibilities:
1. There was a sort of 'big bounce' where the universe previous to the bounce is contracting. In this case, time continues back to infinity and there is no 'start'.

2. The singularity is 'smoothed out' and pressures and densities do not go to infinity, but remain finite. The universe would 'start' with a finite size at the beginning of time and expand from there.

3. There is a larger multiverse, with our universe 'budding off' from the larger structure. It is quite possible that time makes no sense in this larger structure, so causality is also meaningless there. The structure as a whole simple 'is'. In this, time and causality are aspects of our universe, not of the larger whole. So asking about the cause of our universe isn't meaningful. There is no cause.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#115789 Jun 25, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong, your misunderstanding of first scientific principals is typical
of the deliberate ignorance you display
First, the laws of causality that you require to make you claim (despite
you denying such laws were required by your god – read your babble) did
not exist until after the event therefore are not relevant to the event
itself.
Second, there is nothing to say there was not a previous process;
certainly in the quantum realm this is accepted. Only godbots think it
came from nothing by god magic – read your babble
Wrong, it is not beyond science, because science is daring to
investigate it and has been for several years, much to the chagrin of
godbots like you.
WTF has genetics got to do with the start of the universe? Your
deliberate obfuscation is noted, I really do believe that if you spent
less time looking for ways out you could actually being to educate
yourself.
Ranting again!
Until that investigation is verified, you are speaking jargons. Lets wait!
But i am telling you, you will only end up doing that in vain.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#115790 Jun 25, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
"anthropomorphism - The ascription of a human attribute or personality to anything impersonal or irrational."[http://www.t hefreedictionary.com/Anthropom orphised]
So explain the term "selection" when mentioning "natural selection".
"se·lect (s-lkt)
v. se·lect·ed, se·lect·ing, se·lects
v.tr.
To take as a choice from among several; pick out.
v.intr.
To make a choice or selection.
adj.
1. Singled out in preference; chosen: a select few.
2. Of special quality or value; choice: select peaches.
3. Of or relating to a lean grade of beef.
4. Careful or refined in making selections; discriminating.
n.
1. One that is chosen in preference to others or because of special value.
2.(used with a pl. verb) Chosen or preferred items or people considered as a group. Often used with the."
Which one of those definitions has anything to do with the forces of nature in and of themselves?
Is any force of nature rational or human or intelligent that is should be able to "select"?
<quoted text>
When a fly sees the text and prints on the display of the PC, I'm sure it appeals to them in particulars ways that are different from the way it appeals to me too.
*leans back in chair and puffs cigarette*
Oh, please. Why are you wasting my time? Can't you make any better attempt at defending your statements than to substitute terms and exclude >relevant< definitions? The phrase is "natural selection" not "Mother Nature selected." Friggin unethical fundies....
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/selection

4. Biology A natural or artificial process that favors or induces survival and perpetuation of one kind of organism over others that die or fail to produce offspring.- American Heritage Dictionary

4.(Biology) biology the natural or artificial process by which certain organisms or characters are reproduced and perpetuated in the species in preference to others. See also natural selection - Collins English Dictionary

4. a process that results in some members of a population having greater success in perpetuating their genetic traits.- Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary

3 : a natural or artificial process that results or tends to result in the survival and propagation of some individuals or organisms but not of others with the result that the inherited traits of the survivors are perpetuated - Merriam-Webster Dictionary

2 Biology A process in which environmental or genetic influences determine which types of organism thrive better than others, regarded as a factor in evolution.- Oxford Dictionary

The only way you can confuse "intentionally select" with "natural selection" is if you're fixated on intelligent design - which leads me to wonder what kind of "cigarette" you keep puffing on.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#115791 Jun 25, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
You have never heard the theory that the universe was once vast and collapsed in on itself forming the singularity? Some think that. Like some think if it keeps expanding it could happen again in millions of years.
Unlikely given that the expansion rate is accelerating. Countering that would take some major new physics. If you know of any, please let someone know.

“Me Me Me!”

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#115792 Jun 25, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
All men can lie to you indeed.
Especially creationists about science.
Or religious ones about god or what god supposedly thinks.
The best way to deal with cheating people is an open society and an atmosphere of critical thinking. Religion, as history demonstrates, is about the opposite.
I see what you're saying but I think they can both lie equally.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#115793 Jun 25, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you thin k the brain and mind are synonyms? If you do many would see you as wrong. Where as the brain is an organ and the mind isn't. The brain can be seen and touched where as the mind can't be.
http://controlmind.info/human-brain/the-diffe...
The closer analogy is that the mind is software running on the hardware of the brain. We can touch a computer chip, but not the running software. In both cases, we can see the physical effects of the software, though.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#115794 Jun 25, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
I know I am right to 10^-35 of a second after the event, before that who
knows, not even you but that never stops you from guessing
My justification is facts, and they are proven to be correct up to the
point where knowledge of measurement and observation breaks down and not
even you knows past that point, but that never stops you from guessing
Like I have said often, your deliberate misunderstanding of the
fundamental scientific laws and cosmology are no excuse for your
deliberate ignorance.
So funny how you say god dunitwiv magic out of nothing – read your
babble – but deny the same prerogative to anything other than your god –
do you actually realise how lame that sounds?
Ranting once again,
you mentioned the word, " facts".
Show me your fact that some thing can just come forth without a cause?

“Ask Randy From Ballwin”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

He Is A Sock Know It All

#115795 Jun 25, 2014
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Unlikely given that the expansion rate is accelerating. Countering that would take some major new physics. If you know of any, please let someone know.
Ask these Physicists.

http://phys.org/news/2013-12-collapse-univers...

Or Google collapse of the universe. There are many more to look at.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#115796 Jun 25, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
If the almighty has all powers or controls all powers; he can be whatever you say he is.
You decide.
Kinda the opposite of 'Almighty' then if a mere mortal has a say in it.(shrug)
replaytime wrote:
God gave us science.
No it didn't.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#115797 Jun 25, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
All men can lie to you indeed.
Especially creationists about science.
Or religious ones about god or what god supposedly thinks.
The best way to deal with cheating people is an open society and an atmosphere of critical thinking. Religion, as history demonstrates, is about the opposite.
Cali-girl20 wrote:
<quoted text>
I see what you're saying but I think they can both lie equally.
I agree. Creationists and religious ones can (and do) both lie equally.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#115798 Jun 25, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
THE PRINCIPLE OF EQUALITY DEMONSTRATES TRANSCENDENCE.
This is sounding suspiciously like Infinite Force.

“When you treat people as they ”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#115799 Jun 25, 2014
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Ranting again!
Until that investigation is verified, you are speaking jargons. Lets wait!
But i am telling you, you will only end up doing that in vain.
Facts so not ranting

And of course ditto and that never stopped you shouting to the world that you call the TRUTH that your god (not one of the 2400+ creator deities known to be been worshipped throughout time but your particular god) dunitwiv magic because you believe and are too stupid to look for more valid alternatives that actually mean anything when taken with the facts already know

“Me Me Me!”

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#115800 Jun 25, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
I know I am right to 10^-35 of a second after the event, before that who knows, not even you but that never stops you from guessing
My justification is facts, and they are proven to be correct up to the point where knowledge of measurement and observation breaks down and not even you knows past that point, but that never stops you from guessing
Like I have said often, your deliberate misunderstanding of the fundamental scientific laws and cosmology are no excuse for your deliberate ignorance.
So funny how you say god dunitwiv magic out of nothing – read your babble – but deny the same prerogative to anything other than your god – do you actually realise how lame that sounds?
I read (your babble)^^^ and now have a strange desire to stab a hot poker in both my eyes!
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#115801 Jun 25, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
No I dont.
Thats where your understanding falls short.
If X causes green-ness in Y, green Ys contain X.
Then the implication is that WHENEVER or WHEREVER or AT THE POINT WHERE, Y causes green-ness in X, Ys WILL contain X.
THE PRINCIPLE OF EQUALITY DEMONSTRATES TRANSCENDENCE.
Therefore it is possible to arrive at accuracy by direct equation or by directly equating.
But it doesnt seem that equity is on your street, so it doesnt surprise me if you dont know about it.
Ah. Correlation equals causation.

So I guess it's true what they say about the lack of pirates these days.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#115802 Jun 25, 2014
Cali-girl20 wrote:
<quoted text>
Why does the thought of God threaten you so? Is it that your ego can't handle not being the center of your universe? Or maybe you're afraid you may have to account for the wrongs you've done and bad behavior toward others at some point.
If man created science then Aura is going to hell. Brilliant!

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